Conservative Party of Canada Leadership Race Megathread-May 27th 2017

[RogueBeaver]

O'Leary wants an economic unitary state and Bernier wants troops as border patrol agents.

[Njall]

 Trost decides this is the best time for a homophobic campaign push

[DL]

Trost decides this is the best time for a homophobic campaign push

How can the Conservative Party even tolerate having someone so openly hateful and bigoted in their caucus as Brad Trost? Can you imagine them tolerating an MP who was as disdainful of Jews as Trost is of gays? I wonder if they are giving him a wide berth because he is running for leader, but I wonder whether once a new leader is picked, that person will quickly have Trost expelled

[adma]

The Libs never expelled Tom Wappel.  Just saying

[DC Al Fine]

The Libs never expelled Tom Wappel.  Just saying

There's the rub. Public opinion on gay rights (and abortion to a lesser extent) has shifted so rapidly that Liberal supporters look ridiculous when they criticize the Tories for harbouring views that they were willing to tolerate as recently as Ignatieff's leadership. Come to think of it, isn't John McKay still in parliament?

[DL]

First of all, I suspect that any Liberal MP (or NDP for that matter) who in 2017 unapologetically said the kinds of vicious hateful things that Wappel said 13 years ago, they would be expelled from their party with a flourish! Second of all, it's one thing to have quietly opposed same sex marriage but while still adopting a polite respectful tone...it's something else to spew the kind of hateful invective that Trost is using. The guy is even saying that if he was Tory leader he would forbid any Tory MPs from attending any Pride parades!

If a Tory MP was even one tenth as derogatory to Jews as Trost is to gays, they would be instantly expelled and denounced...why the double standard?

[2952-0-0]

I still think if Trudeau was truly Machiavellian, he'd go ahead with electoral reform and introduce proportional representation. That would encourage the break-up of the CPC into different factions and make the Liberals, who have been a big-tent party their entire existence, at least the senior party in any governing coalition (they could always throw their junior partner under the bus like what Cameron and Merkel did).

[adma]

Come to think of it, isn't John McKay still in parliament?

I believe existing MPs were "grandfathered in" regardless of their views.

[RogueBeaver]

Globe on O'Leary's underwhelming membership drive.

[DC Al Fine]

First of all, I suspect that any Liberal MP (or NDP for that matter) who in 2017 unapologetically said the kinds of vicious hateful things that Wappel said 13 years ago, they would be expelled from their party with a flourish!

What exactly did Wappel say? It was before my time.

Second of all, it's one thing to have quietly opposed same sex marriage but while still adopting a polite respectful tone...it's something else to spew the kind of hateful invective that Trost is using. The guy is even saying that if he was Tory leader he would forbid any Tory MPs from attending any Pride parades!

From what I saw, the Twitter post consisted of a fundraising letter and a social media posting opposing funding or marching in Pride parades. I frankly don't see the big deal, it's a reasonable wedge, since a lot of socons aren't necessarily aware of the candidates participation in the parades.

Based on the evidence noted on Twitter, I frankly don't see what a politician could say against SSM that you would deem acceptable in the public square.

Come to think of it, isn't John McKay still in parliament?

I believe existing MPs were "grandfathered in" regardless of their views.

I see thank you

[DC Al Fine]

I still think if Trudeau was truly Machiavellian, he'd go ahead with electoral reform and introduce proportional representation. That would encourage the break-up of the CPC into different factions and make the Liberals, who have been a big-tent party their entire existence, at least the senior party in any governing coalition (they could always throw their junior partner under the bus like what Cameron and Merkel did).

I get the logic, but I can't really see any major party getting behind a system that virtually eliminates majority governments. Besides, even though the Liberals aren't as faction ridden as the Tories have been lately, they'd still be vulnerable to the logic of proportional representation. To use the 90's as an example, I have a hard time imagining Sheila Copps and John Manley sharing a party under PR.

[DL]

Trost goes way beyond just opposing SSM. He openly hates all LGBT people period and considers them all sinners who should stripped of all human rights period. He consider anyone gay to be sub human...though rumours are rife that he secretly has sex with men in public washrooms...

[DC Al Fine]

Trost goes way beyond just opposing SSM. He openly hates all LGBT people period and considers them all sinners who should stripped of all human rights period. He consider anyone gay to be sub human...though rumours are rife that he secretly has sex with men in public washrooms...

Citations desperately needed

[136or142]

I still think if Trudeau was truly Machiavellian, he'd go ahead with electoral reform and introduce proportional representation. That would encourage the break-up of the CPC into different factions and make the Liberals, who have been a big-tent party their entire existence, at least the senior party in any governing coalition (they could always throw their junior partner under the bus like what Cameron and Merkel did).

I get the logic, but I can't really see any major party getting behind a system that virtually eliminates majority governments. Besides, even though the Liberals aren't as faction ridden as the Tories have been lately, they'd still be vulnerable to the logic of proportional representation. To use the 90's as an example, I have a hard time imagining Sheila Copps and John Manley sharing a party under PR.

In Australia, which has a PR system in its Senate through STV, the Australian Labor Party has formal right wing and left wing factions.  Under a PR system,  I could see the Liberal Party having the same type of thing.

[DL]

Here are some "citations" from the notorious Tom Wappel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Wappel

"Wappel was not appointed to Jean Chrétien's cabinet, and was a frequent critic of his own party's social legislation. He opposed the Chrétien government's decision to extend anti-discrimination protection to homosexuals in 1994, describing homosexuality as "statistically abnormal, [...] physically abnormal and [...] morally immoral".[19] Some politicians and journalists called for Chrétien to expel Wappel from caucus after this remark, but no disciplinary action was taken. Later in the year, Wappel described homosexuality as "not genetic, but a choice", while arguing that religion is "virtually genetic, since it is passed from generation to generation".

Wappel remained one of the most vocal social conservatives in the Liberal caucus, and was a prominent opponent of the Martin government's 2005 same-sex marriage legislation, which he described as "discriminatory, a sham, and a hoax".

An even better example of the kinds of hateful loons who used to be welcome in the Liberal Party - check out Roseanne Skoke the total kook who was a Liberal MP from Nova Scotia in the 90s and who claimed to have had a vision of the Virgin mary at Shea Stadium

http://gay.hfxns.org/RoseanneSkoke

You could almost feel the white heat radiating out from the television screen. Roseanne Skoke, the rookie Liberal MP from Nova Scotia, was being interviewed by journalist Hana Gartner on CBC-TV. Gartner was needling Skoke about the contrast between her lofty public pronouncements -- she had declared homosexuality "unnatural and immoral" -- and her private life, as grandmother of a baby born recently to her unmarried 15-year-old daughter. What if, Gartner wondered, instead of getting pregnant, your daughter had told you she was a lesbian? Skoke's voice took on the slightly strained tone of a long-suffering teacher explaining a simple concept to an especially thick student. "Pregnancy outside marriage is wrong," she said, "but it's natural. For a child to come home and say `I am a lesbian,' that is immoral. And it does defy nature." Skoke stopped, froze Gartner in her sights. "Quite frankly," she said, "I don't want to discuss it any further..."

[Poirot]

O'Toole has now more support among MPs than Scheer. It doesn't seem to make much difference so far.

[136or142]

O'Toole has now more support among MPs than Scheer. It doesn't seem to make much difference so far.

The last Mainstreet poll that was quoted showed Andrew Scheer finally starting to break through. Likely because he is presently seen as the 'establishment candidate.'  I wouldn't be surprised if many of those Conservatives start to migrate over to Erin O'Toole.

[Goldeneye]

There is approximately 13 or 14 candidates for the Conservative Party of Canada's leadership and Kevin O'Leary, considered as the Canadian Trump, is leading by a few percentage points in the polls. Will some of the candidates drop out in order to coalesce the anti-O'Leary vote?

[DC Al Fine]

There is approximately 13 or 14 candidates for the Conservative Party of Canada's leadership and Kevin O'Leary, considered as the Canadian Trump, is leading by a few percentage points in the polls. Will some of the candidates drop out in order to coalesce the anti-O'Leary vote?

It's a ranked ballot so there's no incentive to drop out.

[136or142]

There is approximately 13 or 14 candidates for the Conservative Party of Canada's leadership and Kevin O'Leary, considered as the Canadian Trump, is leading by a few percentage points in the polls. Will some of the candidates drop out in order to coalesce the anti-O'Leary vote?

The deadline to drop out and not appear on the ballot has already passed.  I believe there may also have been a financial reward (getting some money back) for any candidate who dropped out on or before the deadline.

So, I don't expect anybody to quit.

The candidates seem to be hanging on to the famous words of 'Babe Ruth':  "It ain't over til it's over."

[Poirot]

Maclean's had an article on Bernier. Instead of a post-leadership bounce, Bernier could see a post-leadership dip in polls.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.macleans.ca/politics/how-mad-max-bernier-went-from-comic-relief-to-tory-front-runner/

Bernier was endorsed by 7 Wildrose and 1 PC Alberta MLAs.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2017/04/11/bernier-in-edmonton-racks-up-alberta-mla-endorsements-in-conservative-leadership-race

His goal is to win 40 seats in Quebec. I used an election results simulator for the last election to get a rough idea. With 35% for the Lib and Con in Quebec (basically stability for one party and double its vote share for the other) and the other two main parties at 15%. Bernier doesn't meet its goal. He would have 33 seats and the Libs 44.

With something like 35% Lib, 30% Con and 15% for the other two, it's 58 seats to 19. Still a major increase in vote share but only a few more seats. 

[Barnes]

Kevin O'Leary has withdrawn from the leadership contest and will support Bernier.

[RogueBeaver]

YUGE & guarantees Bernier is our next leader.

[Barnes]

YUGE & guarantees Bernier is our next leader.

Yep. O'Leary's endorsement is simply because Bernier is the front runner and a Quebecker.

[RogueBeaver]

Also because he sold less than 15% of memberships. SAD!