What Kind of Person is Hillary?

[Lyin' Steve]

I remember in 2008 when Florida moved its primary up three months so it was one of the first in the Democratic primary.
This was against the rules and the DNC decided that Florida would be punished by not having any of its delegates count.  At the time, both Hillary and Obama were ok with this.
Then Hillary edged out Obama in Florida, and as the rate got really close it started to look like the delegate difference in Florida may, in many scenarios, decide the election.  So what does Hillary do?  She declares that Florida has been robbed and that the country has an urgent moral responsibility to allow Florida's delegates to vote at the convention.  It's an entirely selfish, self-serving move without regard to anybody or anything else, and she thinks we're all so stupid that we won't remember that just two months earlier she couldn't care less about Florida's delegates, and that we don't realize she's only doing this now because it matters to her!
Well that was when I decided that I would never support Hillary.  It's seven years later and I still remember.  Hillary is your classic ladder-climber, she defines herself by her position and prestige and revolves her entire life around lifting herself to new positions, and she'll do or say whatever it takes to make that happen because that's who she is.  Things like integrity and personal beliefs don't matter to her the way they matter to other people.  Every facet of her personality is just a tool she uses when convenient to get up another rung.  And she's good at it.  That's not to say she'd be a bad president.  She's good at what she does and works extremely hard.  But the extent to which she'll do anything to win just turns me off entirely because as someone who's been in politics a long time, I can see right through her.  I think most people can, honestly.
This whole gender card play is just the latest thing.  She didn't do this in 2008.  Now that identity politics and teenage feminism are all the rage, she's realized she can do well with the woman/youth vote if she plays that card, so she does.  Does she really believe it?  Who knows?  If she gets into office she'll probably be a perfectly fine president.  But I hate to reward her behavior with the victory.  I hate to think that it will encourage others to play the game the same way she has.

[RFayette]

Hillary is an opportunistic liar, the epitome of corporate greed and corruption. I am a socialist, and I refuse to let anymore corporatist, "moderate" Democrats into office. I would rather have a Republican President that would force the Democrats in Congress stand up for Democratic principles, than a Democratic leader who sells out to the elite and takes the Democratic Party with her. I voted for Romney in 2012, and still believe that if he had won, Democrats in Congress would have actually stood up for their principles, but because Obama is in office, and is himself a corporatist, they just follow the leader. A lot of my critique is based on her policies, but I do not think she is a good person who is running out of some genuine desire to fix this country. I think she is after power, and while I might be criticizing her from a different angle than Fox News and most Republicans, I think their concerns are valid. If Hillary is the nominee, I will not be voting for her. There are plenty of conservative Democrats I would consider voting for if I thought they were good people, but I don't see Hillary as being such.

And this gents is why I pray to God that Senator Sanders get steamrolled in the primaries. So BernBots who think as idiotically as this guy leave the party.

I guess you can't wait for Hillary to lose the general election without the BernBots.

But BernBots will overwhelmingly back Hillary in the general, so that's not really a problem.

[I support Sanders]

Hillary is an opportunistic liar, the epitome of corporate greed and corruption. I am a socialist, and I refuse to let anymore corporatist, "moderate" Democrats into office. I would rather have a Republican President that would force the Democrats in Congress stand up for Democratic principles, than a Democratic leader who sells out to the elite and takes the Democratic Party with her. I voted for Romney in 2012, and still believe that if he had won, Democrats in Congress would have actually stood up for their principles, but because Obama is in office, and is himself a corporatist, they just follow the leader. A lot of my critique is based on her policies, but I do not think she is a good person who is running out of some genuine desire to fix this country. I think she is after power, and while I might be criticizing her from a different angle than Fox News and most Republicans, I think their concerns are valid. If Hillary is the nominee, I will not be voting for her. There are plenty of conservative Democrats I would consider voting for if I thought they were good people, but I don't see Hillary as being such.

And this gents is why I pray to God that Senator Sanders get steamrolled in the primaries. So BernBots who think as idiotically as this guy leave the party.

I guess you can't wait for Hillary to lose the general election without the BernBots.

But BernBots will overwhelmingly back Hillary in the general, so that's not really a problem.

That's true. Bernie himself, if he loses, may endorse Hillary. I, however, will not be voting for her.

[I support Sanders]

Hillary is an opportunistic liar, the epitome of corporate greed and corruption. I am a socialist, and I refuse to let anymore corporatist, "moderate" Democrats into office. I would rather have a Republican President that would force the Democrats in Congress stand up for Democratic principles, than a Democratic leader who sells out to the elite and takes the Democratic Party with her. I voted for Romney in 2012, and still believe that if he had won, Democrats in Congress would have actually stood up for their principles, but because Obama is in office, and is himself a corporatist, they just follow the leader. A lot of my critique is based on her policies, but I do not think she is a good person who is running out of some genuine desire to fix this country. I think she is after power, and while I might be criticizing her from a different angle than Fox News and most Republicans, I think their concerns are valid. If Hillary is the nominee, I will not be voting for her. There are plenty of conservative Democrats I would consider voting for if I thought they were good people, but I don't see Hillary as being such.

And this gents is why I pray to God that Senator Sanders get steamrolled in the primaries. So BernBots who think as idiotically as this guy leave the party.

Hillary is not owed the nomination, and we will see what happens as the primary voting soon begins. I'm a Democrat and have no intention of leaving the Party, but I will not vote for Hillary because I like neither her policy positions nor voting history nor character.

[Penelope]

ITT: sexist teenagers

This.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I1-r1YgK9I

I would like a Clinton supporter (especially an LGBT Clinton supporter) to tell me why I should ignore the words coming out of her mouth like they do when they support her.

(As a bisexual and transgender Clinton supporter): Why should we not oppose Obama for flipflopping multiple times on same-sex marriage during his political career? He was in favor of legalizing same-sex marriage when he first ran for Illinois state senate in 1996, was undecided in 1998, supported civil unions in 2004 and 2008, and by 2008 was comfortable saying that it was his personal belief that marriage was "between a man and a woman" and that he was "not in favor" of it. Despite this career of flipflopping and hiding whatever his true beliefs on the issue were, he ended up being the best president for LGBT rights ever.

I see no reason why Hillary Clinton, even if her true belief is as she stated it in 2004, could not end up being just as good as Obama has on LGBT rights, especially since the fight for marriage equality is no longer the biggest issue facing LGBT Americans. Whatever her opinions on marriage are, she has had a positive influence on LGBT rights. She opposed DADT as early as 2007, and was rated extremely positively (higher than 85%) by the Human Rights Campaign throughout her years in Congress.

Seems like many here take pride in having successfully been manipulated.

Good person. Bad at connecting with people. It's pretty much as simple as that.

This. I don't think I have ever seen anything suggesting that she is anything other than a fairly nice person (as nice as a person who has spent 20+ years in Washington can be) - at least nothing that did not have an obvious sexist or political bent to it.

It's also worth noting that many may dislike her for sexist reasons. She is hated and despised for many things that plenty of male politicians, including Barack Obama, and yes, Bernie Sanders, have done and continue to do.

But I think that the most important thing to say about whether Clinton is a good person or not: it is often the people who connect with and are easily beloved by 'normal people' who are secretly horrible when the cameras are not rolling.

[Likely Voter]

Regarding that 2004 video, Clinton was on the Senate floor speaking against the Federal Marriage Act. Her vote helped kill it in the Senate, even though some Dems voted for it. Notably the Democratic Party's 2004 Presidential ticket of Senators Kerry and Edwards decided to skip that vote.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Regarding that 2004 video, Clinton was on the Senate floor speaking against the Federal Marriage Act. Her vote helped kill it in the Senate, even though some Dems voted for it. Notably the Democratic Party's 2004 Presidential ticket of Senators Kerry and Edwards decided to skip that vote.

Saved me from having to post this.

You see, I get disliking her on policy or some political positioning ... but the sheer visceral hatred she elicits is just hysterical.

[Blair]

I am a socialist...I voted for Romney in 2012,

Also guys don't be naive-the whole 'the secret service must hate her, she must be evil is bollocks' I spend 5 years or so at school with people, seeing them everyday and it would be easy to find 4-5 people who had a bad view of me-does that make me a bad person?

The Secret Service claims mostly come from Ronald Kesslers book which was basically Republcians good, demcrats bad. Considering the Secret Service for Clinton are widely rumored, and did in fact cover up his womanizing you can't blame HRC for not loving them

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

She opposed DADT as early as 2007

What brave leadership! Bernie, along with about half of Democrats voted against it in 1993.

https://votesmart.org/bill/votes/15579#.VbfPT0JViko

[Penelope]

She opposed DADT as early as 2007

What brave leadership! Bernie, along with about half of Democrats voted against it in 1993.

https://votesmart.org/bill/votes/15579#.VbfPT0JViko

Indeed, Bernie has a very good record on LGBT rights. I was making no claims to the contrary, merely attempting to do away with this notion that Hillary has a somehow more questionable record on civil rights for LGBT Americans than other Democrats. Her opposition to DADT in fact began as early as November 1999 when she ran for the United States Senate.

So combined with what others have said above about her 2004 speech in the Senate, and the rest of her record on LGBT rights, I see no reason why I, as an LGBT American, should have to defend my support of Hillary Clinton because of her supposedly questionable record.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

She opposed DADT as early as 2007

What brave leadership! Bernie, along with about half of Democrats voted against it in 1993.

https://votesmart.org/bill/votes/15579#.VbfPT0JViko

Indeed, Bernie has a very good record on LGBT rights. I was making no claims to the contrary, merely attempting to do away with this notion that Hillary has a somehow more questionable record on civil rights for LGBT Americans than other Democrats. Her opposition to DADT in fact began as early as November 1999 when she ran for the United States Senate.

So combined with what others have said above about her 2004 speech in the Senate, and the rest of her record on LGBT rights, I see no reason why I, as an LGBT American, should have to defend my support of Hillary Clinton because of her supposedly questionable record.

She was an opponent of SSM until 2013, and had spoken in opposition to SSM. It wasn't just for some 2004 vote that she still opposed it over 8 years later. Bernie never opposed SSMl.

And there was this.

[Gog]

I've never met her personally. But those I know who have, love her. They say she's warm, funny.

[EliteLX]

ITT: sexist teenagers

It takes a special kind of stupid.

[Landslide Lyndon]

I've never met her personally. But those I know who have, love her. They say she's warm, funny.

I've read many people saying the same thing, even though some of them disagreed with her politically.
The fact that she is a wonk and not a politician who thrives in campaign mode like Bill or Obama doesn't mean that she is a bad person.

[Blair]

She opposed DADT as early as 2007

What brave leadership! Bernie, along with about half of Democrats voted against it in 1993.

https://votesmart.org/bill/votes/15579#.VbfPT0JViko

Indeed, Bernie has a very good record on LGBT rights. I was making no claims to the contrary, merely attempting to do away with this notion that Hillary has a somehow more questionable record on civil rights for LGBT Americans than other Democrats. Her opposition to DADT in fact began as early as November 1999 when she ran for the United States Senate.

So combined with what others have said above about her 2004 speech in the Senate, and the rest of her record on LGBT rights, I see no reason why I, as an LGBT American, should have to defend my support of Hillary Clinton because of her supposedly questionable record.

She was an opponent of SSM until 2013, and had spoken in opposition to SSM. It wasn't just for some 2004 vote that she still opposed it over 8 years later. Bernie never opposed SSMl.

And there was this.

Obama opposed it until 2013.

As someone from the LGBT community it isn't about who was the first to support gay marriage-it's about who will be the the most effective in the next 8 years at getting congress to actually address real issues facing the LGBT community. Hillary, much like Obama is a politician

[Mehmentum]

I guess you can't wait for Hillary to lose the general election without the BernBots.

I see winning Sanders supporters as more of an opportunity than a threat.  The Sanders supporters who voted for Obama in 2012 will mostly bite their tongue again in 2016.  Its the ones  who were apathetic before Sanders that are most likely to slip back into apathy if Sanders loses.

In other words, the Democrats aren't going to lose many voters compared to 2012 (except for possibly African Americans, but thats a different issue), but they do have the potential, if they play their cards right, to win some of the people who Sanders has gotten involved in the political process.

[Lief 🗽]

Hillary is an opportunistic liar, the epitome of corporate greed and corruption. I am a socialist, and I refuse to let anymore corporatist, "moderate" Democrats into office. I would rather have a Republican President that would force the Democrats in Congress stand up for Democratic principles, than a Democratic leader who sells out to the elite and takes the Democratic Party with her. I voted for Romney in 2012, and still believe that if he had won, Democrats in Congress would have actually stood up for their principles, but because Obama is in office, and is himself a corporatist, they just follow the leader. A lot of my critique is based on her policies, but I do not think she is a good person who is running out of some genuine desire to fix this country. I think she is after power, and while I might be criticizing her from a different angle than Fox News and most Republicans, I think their concerns are valid. If Hillary is the nominee, I will not be voting for her. There are plenty of conservative Democrats I would consider voting for if I thought they were good people, but I don't see Hillary as being such.

And this gents is why I pray to God that Senator Sanders get steamrolled in the primaries. So BernBots who think as idiotically as this guy leave the party.

Hillary is not owed the nomination, and we will see what happens as the primary voting soon begins. I'm a Democrat and have no intention of leaving the Party, but I will not vote for Hillary because I like neither her policy positions nor voting history nor character.

>hates Hillary because she is an "opportunistic liar"
>wants Charlie crist to run for president

Absolutely no sexism here folks!

[Gog]

Hillary is an opportunistic liar, the epitome of corporate greed and corruption. I am a socialist, and I refuse to let anymore corporatist, "moderate" Democrats into office. I would rather have a Republican President that would force the Democrats in Congress stand up for Democratic principles, than a Democratic leader who sells out to the elite and takes the Democratic Party with her. I voted for Romney in 2012, and still believe that if he had won, Democrats in Congress would have actually stood up for their principles, but because Obama is in office, and is himself a corporatist, they just follow the leader. A lot of my critique is based on her policies, but I do not think she is a good person who is running out of some genuine desire to fix this country. I think she is after power, and while I might be criticizing her from a different angle than Fox News and most Republicans, I think their concerns are valid. If Hillary is the nominee, I will not be voting for her. There are plenty of conservative Democrats I would consider voting for if I thought they were good people, but I don't see Hillary as being such.

And this gents is why I pray to God that Senator Sanders get steamrolled in the primaries. So BernBots who think as idiotically as this guy leave the party.

Hillary is not owed the nomination, and we will see what happens as the primary voting soon begins. I'm a Democrat and have no intention of leaving the Party, but I will not vote for Hillary because I like neither her policy positions nor voting history nor character.

>hates Hillary because she is an "opportunistic liar"
>wants Charlie crist to run for president

Absolutely no sexism here folks!

Who the  wants Charlie Crist as garbage collector.

[bobloblaw]

The Secret Service supposedly hates her, if that's any indication.

She was known as Lady McBeth of Little Rock

[Ebsy]

The Secret Service supposedly hates Michelle Obama as well if rightwing "news" sites are to be believed.

[bobloblaw]

The Secret Service supposedly hates Michelle Obama as well if rightwing "news" sites are to be believed.

Liberals hate the little people they are suppose to champion.

Nixon, Reagan and Bush 43 all had good relationships with the permanent WH staff.

Part of being liberal is thinking youre better than everyone. Everyone is a moron who needs your direction and planning in life.

[Figueira]

I'm not a huge fan of Hillary, but...

ITT: sexist teenagers

[King]

She's a really boring 68 year old lawyer who gets pleasure out of working.

Conspiracy theorists give her too much credit.

[eric82oslo]

I've never met her personally. But those I know who have, love her. They say she's warm, funny.

And loves cheese a lot.

http://twitchy.com/2015/10/28/hillary-clinton-talks-cheese-stuffed-in-things-with-anthony-bourdain-video/

[I support Sanders]

Hillary is an opportunistic liar, the epitome of corporate greed and corruption. I am a socialist, and I refuse to let anymore corporatist, "moderate" Democrats into office. I would rather have a Republican President that would force the Democrats in Congress stand up for Democratic principles, than a Democratic leader who sells out to the elite and takes the Democratic Party with her. I voted for Romney in 2012, and still believe that if he had won, Democrats in Congress would have actually stood up for their principles, but because Obama is in office, and is himself a corporatist, they just follow the leader. A lot of my critique is based on her policies, but I do not think she is a good person who is running out of some genuine desire to fix this country. I think she is after power, and while I might be criticizing her from a different angle than Fox News and most Republicans, I think their concerns are valid. If Hillary is the nominee, I will not be voting for her. There are plenty of conservative Democrats I would consider voting for if I thought they were good people, but I don't see Hillary as being such.

And this gents is why I pray to God that Senator Sanders get steamrolled in the primaries. So BernBots who think as idiotically as this guy leave the party.

Hillary is not owed the nomination, and we will see what happens as the primary voting soon begins. I'm a Democrat and have no intention of leaving the Party, but I will not vote for Hillary because I like neither her policy positions nor voting history nor character.

>hates Hillary because she is an "opportunistic liar"
>wants Charlie crist to run for president

Absolutely no sexism here folks!

Who the  wants Charlie Crist as garbage collector.

I do, believe it or not. I worked on Charlie's gubernatorial campaign last year, and I would have no qualms about supporting him in his future political endeavors.