Who would you like to see become Pope in the near future?

[RightBehind]

Though an atheist, I think Francis is alright. Out of the names, maybe O'Malley for me. No to Ouellet or Pell.

Why no Turkson? Or Scola? What do you think would be the chosen papal names?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Out of the names, maybe O'Malley for me. 

You think O'Malley can do better than in Iowa when it comes to the conclave?

[RightBehind]

People think an American can't be Pope. Well there's always boundaries being pushed and the conclave appears no exception. John Paul II was the first non-Italian in more than 400 years with Adrian VI. Francis was the first non-European since Gregory III, a Syrian.

It's not likely, but some people seen as papable, like Cardinal Siri, never got their chance. Then you have someone like Wojtyla, a compromise candidate, who became an iconic figure.

[ingemann]

No one, I would like to see the papal institution abolished.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

No one, I would like to see the papal institution abolished.

[Enduro]

I'd like to see Christians realize that the Catholic Church isn't the Church that Jesus wanted to be the largest, and realize that a pope is just putting a human in a position that should be reserved for God and God alone.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Any liberal and/or pro-gay would be good bad, and any conservative would be bad good . No real preference other than that. Preferably Peter Turkson (African and Conservative)

Still, I'm an Evangelical and think it's time Catholics sign the Ausburg Confession bringing the Matt Maher/Audry Assad wing of Catholics more into the mainstream. 

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Still, I'm an Evangelical and think it's time Catholics sign the Ausburg Confession bringing the Matt Maher/Audry Assad wing of Catholics more into the mainstream. 

It's interesting that apparently the only people you could think of in this 'wing of Catholics' are CCM artists. It's almost as if practically no serious Catholic theologians or prelates are anywhere close to wherever this is. Also, I'm not that familiar with Maher and I hadn't heard of Assad until now, but I get the sneaking suspicion that you simply assume they're theologically simpatico with you because they have similar sh**tty aesthetic sensibilities.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Wow, Audrey Assad does not look like she'd be Catholic at all. She looks like a character in a Lena Dunham work! As stereotypical of a nerdy hipster girl as possible.

[Frodo]

This is from a few months ago, but it looks as if the odds that the next Pope will also come from the Global South are increasing (gradually) as Pope Francis makes more appointments to the College of Cardinals:



source

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Still, I'm an Evangelical and think it's time Catholics sign the Ausburg Confession bringing the Matt Maher/Audry Assad wing of Catholics more into the mainstream. 

It's interesting that apparently the only people you could think of in this 'wing of Catholics' are CCM artists. It's almost as if practically no serious Catholic theologians or prelates are anywhere close to wherever this is. Also, I'm not that familiar with Maher and I hadn't heard of Assad until now, but I get the sneaking suspicion that you simply assume they're theologically simpatico with you because they have similar sh**tty aesthetic sensibilities.

I'm sure there were some at the conference I was at over the /ChristmasNew Years holidays. Look up Cardnial Leo Joseph Suenens who was Primate of Belgum. This wing started to have a resurgence in the 70's and a hotbed is in my neck of the woods (Notre Dame in South Bend)

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Still, I'm an Evangelical and think it's time Catholics sign the Ausburg Confession bringing the Matt Maher/Audry Assad wing of Catholics more into the mainstream. 

It's interesting that apparently the only people you could think of in this 'wing of Catholics' are CCM artists. It's almost as if practically no serious Catholic theologians or prelates are anywhere close to wherever this is. Also, I'm not that familiar with Maher and I hadn't heard of Assad until now, but I get the sneaking suspicion that you simply assume they're theologically simpatico with you because they have similar sh**tty aesthetic sensibilities.

I'm sure there were some at the conference I was at over the /ChristmasNew Years holidays. Look up Cardnial Leo Joseph Suenens who was Primate of Belgum. This wing started to have a resurgence in the 70's and a hotbed is in my neck of the woods (Notre Dame in South Bend)

I'm familiar with Cardinal Suenens and I know what Notre Dame is like. I'm beginning to have an idea of what 'wing' you're talking about. Its aesthetic sensibilities are in fact extremely sh**tty (seriously, I can think of Indelicates songs that would make more appropriate liturgical music than some of this material), but other than that I still don't think you understand it very well.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

After reading a bit about Suenens it sounds like he was simply far more liberal than the church at the time or now. So like someone who a liberal Christian would be promoting as a model for what the church should be like, not someone like JCL. Surprising.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

After reading a bit about Suenens it sounds like he was simply far more liberal than the church at the time or now. So like someone who a liberal Christian would be promoting as a model for what the church should be like, not someone like JCL. Surprising.

JCL is probably referring to Suenens's support for the Catholic Charismatic Renewal movement.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

After reading a bit about Suenens it sounds like he was simply far more liberal than the church at the time or now. So like someone who a liberal Christian would be promoting as a model for what the church should be like, not someone like JCL. Surprising.

JCL is probably referring to Suenens's support for the Catholic Charismatic Renewal movement.

Which is what I was doing.

[Classic Conservative]

I have a regional bias, so Cardinal Séan for me. But, I would rather have a Charismatic Catholic as a pope who understands young people, while at the same time is very conservative on social issues including abortion and ending christian persecution.

[RightBehind]

I have a regional bias, so Cardinal Séan for me. But, I would rather have a Charismatic Catholic as a pope who understands young people, while at the same time is very conservative on social issues including abortion and ending christian persecution.

You mean Christian persecution in the Middle East, right?

[Illiniwek]

I think it has to be Tagle, which would be pretty good! Pretty moderate and a Knight of Columbus on top of it! I like Ouellet too. Burke would be cool, only because my fiancee was confirmed by him. Otherwise Burke would be very bad.

People think an American can't be Pope. Well there's always boundaries being pushed and the conclave appears no exception. John Paul II was the first non-Italian in more than 400 years with Adrian VI. Francis was the first non-European since Gregory III, a Syrian.

I'm sorry, but it just isn't going to happen. There is just no good reason to "push that boundary". JPII was important for reaching behind the Iron Curtain. Francis was reaching into where the church is actually growing, and into a poorer part of the world. What do you get by picking an American pope? Nothing. The Catholic church in America is not growing, and is not a great example of the church being a "poor man's church". As long as America is a superpower, we will never see an American pope. The church is growing in the southern hemisphere, and we will find the heirarchy of the church becoming much more southern.

No one, I would like to see the papal institution abolished.

Well  off and good luck with that!

[RightBehind]

I think it has to be Tagle, which would be pretty good! Pretty moderate and a Knight of Columbus on top of it! I like Ouellet too. Burke would be cool, only because my fiancee was confirmed by him. Otherwise Burke would be very bad.

People think an American can't be Pope. Well there's always boundaries being pushed and the conclave appears no exception. John Paul II was the first non-Italian in more than 400 years with Adrian VI. Francis was the first non-European since Gregory III, a Syrian.

I'm sorry, but it just isn't going to happen. There is just no good reason to "push that boundary". JPII was important for reaching behind the Iron Curtain. Francis was reaching into where the church is actually growing, and into a poorer part of the world. What do you get by picking an American pope? Nothing. The Catholic church in America is not growing, and is not a great example of the church being a "poor man's church". As long as America is a superpower, we will never see an American pope. The church is growing in the southern hemisphere, and we will find the heirarchy of the church becoming much more southern.

No one, I would like to see the papal institution abolished.

Well  off and good luck with that!

John Paul II was also a compromise candidate after a liberal Italian cardinal and a conservative Italian cardinal could not get the necessary votes for election. It's not like Wojtyla was a heavy favorite like Ratzinger or Pacelli were.

The same to a lesser extent goes for Francis. Scola was the frontrunner even though Bergoglio was in third in the balloting at one point.

I think if we saw a Catholic Church undoing its decades of corruption, it could grow in America. Besides, this is one of the most patriotic countries on the planet. I'm sure an American pope would help grow it here.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Who's going to turn Catholic in the US? The US is far too polarized between SJW liberals and conservative evangelicals.

No one, I would like to see the papal institution abolished.

Well  off and good luck with that!

People should only follow Jesus Christ. Not a man.

[Illiniwek]

I think if we saw a Catholic Church undoing its decades of corruption, it could grow in America. Besides, this is one of the most patriotic countries on the planet. I'm sure an American pope would help grow it here.

The growth of the Church in America is not the priority of the Church. It's priority is serving all Catholics around the world, and growing the Church globally.

The Church doesn't want to a church represented by proud, "patriotic" American exceptionalism. If there is a country today that is most likely to be modern day Pharisees, it is the United States. It wants to be a "poor church for the poor," and  Now that the Church has gotten past its fear of a non-Italian, and then non-European pope, its only going to pick popes that come from poor countries, or have extremely humble backgrounds embracing the impoverished (like Francis). It wants to give the people who have the least in this world reason to believe the Church is there with them.

People should only follow Jesus Christ. Not a man.

Ok then, don't "follow" your pastor or minister. Stop going to those services. Who cares what he says? He is a man. He isn't Jesus Christ. Therefore, you shouldn't "follow" him.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

People should only follow Jesus Christ. Not a man.

Ok then, don't "follow" your pastor or minister. Stop going to those services. Who cares what he says? He is a man. He isn't Jesus Christ. Therefore, you shouldn't "follow" him.

None of the pastors at my church, (for which a majority are women by the way) claim to be God's infallible representative on Earth. In fact they've even done joint teaching or round-table discussion sermons where they've admitted to having different views on some things...and that that's OK and that we do not need to agree with everything they preach either.

Now I think this Pope isn't a bad guy, in fact I even like his Twitter feed. But he is just a man, like me.

[Illiniwek]

People should only follow Jesus Christ. Not a man.

Ok then, don't "follow" your pastor or minister. Stop going to those services. Who cares what he says? He is a man. He isn't Jesus Christ. Therefore, you shouldn't "follow" him.

None of the pastors at my church, (for which a majority are women by the way) claim to be God's infallible representative on Earth. In fact they've even done joint teaching or round-table discussion sermons where they've admitted to having different views on some things...and that that's OK and that we do not need to agree with everything they preach either.

Now I think this Pope isn't a bad guy, in fact I even like his Twitter feed. But he is just a man, like me.

As it must always be pointed out, papal infallibility is a very rare occurrence, happening only "[w]hen, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church." Popes have downplayed infallibility, for example, "The Pope is not an oracle; he is infallible in very rare situations, as we know" (Benedict XVI) and "I am only infallible if I speak infallibly but I shall never do that, so I am not infallible" (John XXIII).

As for the role of Vicar of Christ, what is the difference between God having a "representative" on Earth leading the Church, and God working through the writers of the Bible? Jesus didn't sit down and write down all those words himself. How can you say that the Bible was written (and selected) by God through his...representatives maybe?... on Earth, and that it could never happen again for other issues of the church?

Jesus made Peter the leader of the Church on Earth and gave his successors the role as well. It is all laid out pretty well in the Bible.
Primacy of Peter
Mt 16:18 - upon this rock (Peter) I will build my church
Mt 16;19 - give you keys of the kingdom; power to bind & loose
Lk 22:32 - Peter's faith will strengthen his brethren
Jn 21:17 - given Christ's flock as chief shepherd
Mk 16:7 - angel sent to announce Resurrection to Peter
Lk 24:34 - risen Jesus first appeared to Peter
Acts 1:13-26 - headed meeting which elected Matthias
Acts 2:14 - led Apostles in preaching on Pentecost
Acts 2:41 - received first converts
Acts 3:6-7 - performed first miracle after Pentecost
Acts 5:1-11 - inflicted first punishment: Ananias & Saphira
Acts 8:21 - excommunicated first heretic, Simon Magnus
Acts 10:44-46 - received revelation to admit Gentiles into Church
Acts 15:7 - led first council in Jerusalem
Acts 15:19 - pronounces first dogmatic decision
Gal 1:18 - after conversion, Paul visits chief Apostle
*Gal 2:11-14 - I opposed Cephas to his face for his hypocrisy
Peter's name always heads list of Apostles: Mt 10;14; Mk 3:16-19; Lk 6:14-16; Acts 1:13
"Peter and his companions" Lk 9:32; Mk 16:7
Spoke for Apostles - Mt 18:21; Mk 8:29; Lk 8:45; 12:41; Jn 6:69
Peter's name occurs 195 times, more than all the rest put together

Apostolic Succession
2 Chr 19:11 - high priest is over you in everything of Lord's
Mal 2:7 - seek instruction from priest, he is God's messenger
Eph 2:20 - Church built upon foundation of apostles & prophets
Eph 4:11 - God gave some as apostles, others as prophets...
1 Cor 12:28-29 - God designated in church: apostles, ...
Acts 1:20 - let another take his office
Acts 1:25-26 - Matthias takes Judas' apostolic ministry
1 Tim 3:1, 8; 5:17 - qualifications for: bishops, priests, & deacons
1Tim 4:14 - gift conferred with the laying on of hands
1Tim 5:22 - do not lay hands too readily on anyone
Acts 14:23 - they appointed presbyters in each church
2Tim 2:2 - what you heard from me entrust to faithful teachers
Titus 1:5 - appoint presbyters in every town, as I directed

If you want to have these differences of opinions, then allow us Catholics to have our opinions and be in a church led by the pope. The papacy has done a lot more to help humanity than you or I or any of us has, and wishing for the institution to be abolished is a silly thing to say. No one is forcing you to listen to him.

[Simfan34]

Cardinal Sarah!

[Zioneer]

I realize this thread is old, but my two cents as a Mormon non-Catholic are that I think Francis is doing a great job, and that I hope he lives and is healthy for as long as possible. I do think the pendulum will shift the other way when he dies.