Confirmation of Bacon King as Justice (Debating)

[Senator Cris]

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VP Cincinnatus should do that, but he has not been online in the recent days.
There are precedents of Speakers of Senate opening confirmation threads, so I'll do the same.

When Cincinnatus will be back, I think he should run the thread.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Mr. Kingman,


On October 25th, you cast a vote in the Northeast Regional Election in favor of the region seceding. You also voted for a slate of candidates who likewise supported secession. Was this vote an "informed" decision on your part?

Assuming it is, why do you now seek to be a Justice who will fairly interpret the laws for all Atlasians, when less than two weeks ago you were voting to remove your region and by extension yourself from the union?

And remember, both myself, another Senator and the incoming President were present in the IRC chat room where you "discussed" your vote ahead of time and afterwards.

[Barnes]

I will leave Senator Yankee with that line of inquisition and ask something slightly different.

Mr. Bacon "the King" Man, how would you currently characterize the relevance of the Supreme Court and judicial institutions at-large, and what judicial reforms, if any, would you support at the present Constitutional Convention?

[Bacon King]

On October 25th, you cast a vote in the Northeast Regional Election in favor of the region seceding. You also voted for a slate of candidates who likewise supported secession. Was this vote an "informed" decision on your part?

No, to be perfectly honest with you it was not an informed decision in the slightest.

For several years now, whenever I am faced with a ballot where I have no strong opinion on how to vote (which, to be clear, is a rare occurrence), I'll log in to IRC and take the first good suggestion someone in the chat gives me - I did so for both the Federal and Regional elections in this most recent election. I believe Adam Griffin personally told me to vote for him, and I think it was Talleyrand who told me how to vote in the Northeast but I'm not entirely certain on that because several other were saying the same thing as Talleyrand at the same time.

I recall that you were in chat at the time, and I would have probably taken your suggestion if you spoke first, because I trust your judgement, and I recall at least two times in the past when I did vote by your suggestion when I asked in IRC. Several people have come forward to inform me that you have been privately sharing an edited IRC transcript in an attempted character assassination, failing to provide any semblance of an accurate contact. Let me correct the record now - yes it's unorthodox but it's no different than the dozens of voters you and other candidates PM every election. If they trust your judgement, they listen to your electoral recommendations. The only difference with me is that I'm proactive enough to openly solicit requests for campaign materials, in an effort to make a semi-informed decision, even if it is just by proxy.

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Regarding "secession": you and I both know that even if that vote had passed, absolutely nothing would have come of it. Secession is literally considered an act of treason under Atlasian criminal statutes, as is the act of serving within a regional government that denies the supremacy of Federal law. But the fact is, those kinds of shenanigans get people active and interested in the game, paying attention and having fun. That Northeast Election had 62% turnout, which is an impressive increase from the 24% turnout the Northeast had in August. With the GM's role in creating story-lines effectively defunct, we as citizens of Atlasia have the sole responsibility to make the game interesting for each other rather than suffering through oppressive mundanity.

That's what I've always believed, and that's why any time I don't hold office, I pull off little shenanigans here and there, just enough to keep the game from being boring, because that's the most I can contribute as a mere citizen. Any decent wrestling match needs a heel, and that's a role I enjoy playing when it's called for. I don't see anything fundamentally objectionable about that. If I'm not nominated to the Supreme Court, I'll continue to be a heel, if that's what the situation calls for.

One thing I do want to make clear, though, is that in all my years of assorted shenanigans I have not once ever done anything of the sort when I held office. When I swear an oath to the Atlasian people to faithfully execute the responsibilities of my office, to preserve and protect and defend the Constitution, I take that oath completely seriously. For example, when I was Pacific Justice I single-handedly saved the Pacific region from collapse via critical activity failures, when I could have easily done nothing and let it die (or, if I was the irresponsible troll you're clearly claiming I am, I could have passed a verdict that would have screwed everything up even worse). Instead of doing that, though, I took my sworn responsibility seriously, and I faithfully executed the powers of my office to protect and preserve Constitional law in the Pacific at a time when a single blow would have ended it.

You may argue that "inactivity" is an abrogation of my responsibilities as an officeholder, and you'd be right. But thankfully that simply isn't an issue anymore. Let me get real with you all for a second - I don't think I need to remind the Senate that I suffer from a psychiatric condition that once, even caused my to try and take my own life (exactly two and a half years ago today, I believe). I had a rough downfall leading to that and it's been a very rocky road to recovery ever since. Yeah, during that time I should have the foresight to not run for office, that's the real sinister thing about bipolar disorder - there are times where it went from "I'm good, I'm fine, I don't understand how things could get so bad again" to "wtf life is worse than it's ever been before, time to give up at everything" so I couldn't really see it coming.

Last July I had a breakthrough (after the downward spiral that cost me my moderator position, in fact, after I finally accepted my transgender identity and came out to my family and friends); correct medication combined with good therapy and the support of my loved ones has all combined to help me tremendously. I'm in school again, for the first time since I dropped out back in December of 2012 - and I'm acing my classes! I have a loving girlfriend, a job, and I've even quit smoking - thirty days without a cigarette and counting.

I apologize for such an extensive tangent into my personal life, but I feel it was necessary in order to put the "BACON KING IS INACTIVE" meme to rest once and for all. I know that objection has been raised elsewhere and I think it's appropriate to clarify why activity has been a problem in the past, and why it won't be one now. I'll be an active Justice, and I can say that with certainty.

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No need to remind me - I knew y'all were in there when I said it obviously, if I was actually saying something so controversial, do you think I'd be so dumb about it?

I will leave Senator Yankee with that line of inquisition and ask something slightly different.

Mr. Bacon "the King" Man, how would you currently characterize the relevance of the Supreme Court and judicial institutions at-large, and what judicial reforms, if any, would you support at the present Constitutional Convention?

I think the relevance of the judiciary is mostly at an appropriate level. One thing I'd like to see more of are lawsuits pertaining to the constitutionality of legislation that doesn't directly affect us as players. Here in Atlasia, standing hasn't been required for a lawsuit since Sam Spade left the Court so many years ago. This allows anyone to file a suit if they see the Senate or regional legislatures passing a law they believe contradicts the text of the Constitution in some way - there's a lot in there that doesn't directly affect the game, but does relate to powers allowed and/or prohibited by the Senate and the Regions.

As for reforms, I'd like to see the judiciary unified, or at least federalized to some extent. Different regions have different court systems and different circumstances where they permit appeals to the Supreme Court. Also, in some regional constitutions it's explicitly prohibited to violate Federal law - so in those regions, when the legislature passes a law that violates something at the Federal level, a potential plaintiff could pick either the regional court or the supreme court to file their initial lawsuit. There's also the situation where regions can give the Supreme Court the authority to act as their regional court. That gives you the ridiculous situation where you can appeal the Supreme Court's decision to the Supreme Court to make them hear the case again.

It'd make a lot more sense if the regional judiciaries had a standardized scope and scale of authority, as it would allow them to also serve in a role equivalent to irl Federal District Courts or Appellate Courts, which would allow equal opportunities for appeal and a more sensible system for understanding the precedents and jurisprudence of a given court.

I also believe Atlasian criminal law should be reformed to prevent long-term bans from being doled out so easily, but I suppose that's more on the legislative side of things - this opinion would not interfere with my impartiality when presiding over a criminal trial.

Thanks for the questions, guys!

[tmthforu94]

No, to be perfectly honest with you it was not an informed decision in the slightest.

How can we expect you to make an informed decision on court cases when you can't make an informed decision in the voting booth?

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

For several years now, whenever I am faced with a ballot where I have no strong opinion on how to vote (which, to be clear, is a rare occurrence), I'll log in to IRC and take the first good suggestion someone in the chat gives me - I did so for both the Federal and Regional elections in this most recent election. I believe Adam Griffin personally told me to vote for him, and I think it was Talleyrand who told me how to vote in the Northeast but I'm not entirely certain on that because several other were saying the same thing as Talleyrand at the same time.

With all due respect, counselor, you must admit that this is a troubling explanation of your actions. How can we be sure that you would not be similarly swayed by, in your own words, "the first good suggestion someone gives [you]" when interpreting Atlasian law?

[Oakvale]

For several years now, whenever I am faced with a ballot where I have no strong opinion on how to vote (which, to be clear, is a rare occurrence), I'll log in to IRC and take the first good suggestion someone in the chat gives me - I did so for both the Federal and Regional elections in this most recent election. I believe Adam Griffin personally told me to vote for him, and I think it was Talleyrand who told me how to vote in the Northeast but I'm not entirely certain on that because several other were saying the same thing as Talleyrand at the same time.

With all due respect, counselor, you must admit that this is a troubling explanation of your actions. How can we be sure that you would not be similarly swayed by, in your own words, "the first good suggestion someone gives [you]" when interpreting Atlasian law?

I'd suggest you look into Bacon King's extremely long, deep and distinguished record in Atlasian law rather than attempting to smear him in such a shameless manner.

[windjammer]

Well, at least it's good to see you're feeling better .

[Associate Justice PiT]

For several years now, whenever I am faced with a ballot where I have no strong opinion on how to vote (which, to be clear, is a rare occurrence), I'll log in to IRC and take the first good suggestion someone in the chat gives me - I did so for both the Federal and Regional elections in this most recent election. I believe Adam Griffin personally told me to vote for him, and I think it was Talleyrand who told me how to vote in the Northeast but I'm not entirely certain on that because several other were saying the same thing as Talleyrand at the same time.

With all due respect, counselor, you must admit that this is a troubling explanation of your actions. How can we be sure that you would not be similarly swayed by, in your own words, "the first good suggestion someone gives [you]" when interpreting Atlasian law?

I'd suggest you look into Bacon King's extremely long, deep and distinguished record in Atlasian law rather than attempting to smear him in such a shameless manner.

     His record of spotty activity and questionable decisions? I already have plenty of reservations about confirming Bacon King based on his past actions in Atlasia; Senator Truman raises an excellent point that you clumsily attempt to dismiss.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

For several years now, whenever I am faced with a ballot where I have no strong opinion on how to vote (which, to be clear, is a rare occurrence), I'll log in to IRC and take the first good suggestion someone in the chat gives me - I did so for both the Federal and Regional elections in this most recent election. I believe Adam Griffin personally told me to vote for him, and I think it was Talleyrand who told me how to vote in the Northeast but I'm not entirely certain on that because several other were saying the same thing as Talleyrand at the same time.

With all due respect, counselor, you must admit that this is a troubling explanation of your actions. How can we be sure that you would not be similarly swayed by, in your own words, "the first good suggestion someone gives [you]" when interpreting Atlasian law?

I'd suggest you look into Bacon King's extremely long, deep and distinguished record in Atlasian law rather than attempting to smear him in such a shameless manner.

Nobody is trying to "smear" Bacon King's record, Oakvale, and I will thank you to stop this ridiculous grandstanding and actually listen to what has been said. The nominee has just stated that he frequently makes major policy decisions based on whatever the first person he meets on IRC tells him to do. I'm sure Bacon King is a nice person, but that raises serious concerns in regard to his independence as a jurist. 

[Bacon King]

No, to be perfectly honest with you it was not an informed decision in the slightest.

How can we expect you to make an informed decision on court cases when you can't make an informed decision in the voting booth?

For several years now, whenever I am faced with a ballot where I have no strong opinion on how to vote (which, to be clear, is a rare occurrence), I'll log in to IRC and take the first good suggestion someone in the chat gives me - I did so for both the Federal and Regional elections in this most recent election. I believe Adam Griffin personally told me to vote for him, and I think it was Talleyrand who told me how to vote in the Northeast but I'm not entirely certain on that because several other were saying the same thing as Talleyrand at the same time.

With all due respect, counselor, you must admit that this is a troubling explanation of your actions. How can we be sure that you would not be similarly swayed by, in your own words, "the first good suggestion someone gives [you]" when interpreting Atlasian law?

That's easy: I'm not a moron.

Asking for input from others on how to vote is a normal thing that people do, especially when they're ill-informed.

As a Justice I will be required to lengthily describe my own beliefs in my decisions and legal opinions. It is a baseless and slanderous smear against me to suggest it's literally even possible to perform as a member of the Judiciary in the vacillating fashion you suggest. I have an entire decade of a record that proves I am principled, knowledgeable, and independently minded; you two are both very intelligent people so I'm sure you already know this.

 I care deeply about the law and I will apply my full wisdom, intelligence, and morals to every single decision I make. If I wasn't capable of doing that, I would not be campaigning so hard to confirm my nomination when there is quite obviously a group of people so dedicated to stopping me that they spread rumors and lies behind my back.

If I wasn't going to take this job seriously I wouldn't be here right now, and I would not have typed literally 1,500 words in a single post - which apparently everyone stopped reading after the first paragraph.

[Bacon King]

For several years now, whenever I am faced with a ballot where I have no strong opinion on how to vote (which, to be clear, is a rare occurrence), I'll log in to IRC and take the first good suggestion someone in the chat gives me - I did so for both the Federal and Regional elections in this most recent election. I believe Adam Griffin personally told me to vote for him, and I think it was Talleyrand who told me how to vote in the Northeast but I'm not entirely certain on that because several other were saying the same thing as Talleyrand at the same time.

With all due respect, counselor, you must admit that this is a troubling explanation of your actions. How can we be sure that you would not be similarly swayed by, in your own words, "the first good suggestion someone gives [you]" when interpreting Atlasian law?

I'd suggest you look into Bacon King's extremely long, deep and distinguished record in Atlasian law rather than attempting to smear him in such a shameless manner.

Nobody is trying to "smear" Bacon King's record, Oakvale, and I will thank you to stop this ridiculous grandstanding and actually listen to what has been said. The nominee has just stated that he frequently makes major policy decisions based on whatever the first person he meets on IRC tells him to do. I'm sure Bacon King is a nice person, but that raises serious concerns in regard to his independence as a jurist. 

With all due respect Senator, that's a lie. I have never made a single policy decision at any level of office that was not based on my own wisdom and conscience. Soliciting opinions on how I should vote in boring elections does not in any way suggest any sort of flaws in my judgment as an elected official and I would greatly appreciate it if you withdrew that remark.

[Barnes]

Well, at least it's good to see you're feeling better .

Hear, hear!

Outside of anything in this game, I am genuinely glad that you are in a better place now, BK. And while you might have felt it necessary, no one on this website shold have to defend their personal life in front of others on the Internet.

[Bacon King]

Well, at least it's good to see you're feeling better .

Hear, hear!

Outside of anything in this game, I am genuinely glad that you are in a better place now, BK. And while you might have felt it necessary, no one on this website hold have to defend their personal life in front of others on the Internet.

Thank you - I've already been informed that several of my opponents are spreading lies about me and my personal life, so I felt the need to preemptively set the record straight here before they could spread their rumors any further

[Associate Justice PiT]

No, to be perfectly honest with you it was not an informed decision in the slightest.

How can we expect you to make an informed decision on court cases when you can't make an informed decision in the voting booth?

For several years now, whenever I am faced with a ballot where I have no strong opinion on how to vote (which, to be clear, is a rare occurrence), I'll log in to IRC and take the first good suggestion someone in the chat gives me - I did so for both the Federal and Regional elections in this most recent election. I believe Adam Griffin personally told me to vote for him, and I think it was Talleyrand who told me how to vote in the Northeast but I'm not entirely certain on that because several other were saying the same thing as Talleyrand at the same time.

With all due respect, counselor, you must admit that this is a troubling explanation of your actions. How can we be sure that you would not be similarly swayed by, in your own words, "the first good suggestion someone gives [you]" when interpreting Atlasian law?

That's easy: I'm not a moron.

Asking for input from others on how to vote is a normal thing that people do, especially when they're ill-informed.

As a Justice I will be required to lengthily describe my own beliefs in my decisions and legal opinions. It is a baseless and slanderous smear against me to suggest it's literally even possible to perform as a member of the Judiciary in the vacillating fashion you suggest. I have an entire decade of a record that proves I am principled, knowledgeable, and independently minded; you two are both very intelligent people so I'm sure you already know this.

 I care deeply about the law and I will apply my full wisdom. Intelligence, and morals to every single decision I make. If I wasn't capable of doing that, I would not be campaigning so hard to confirm my nomination when there is quite obviously a group of people so dedicated to stopping me that they spread rumors and lies behind my back.

If I wasn't going to take this job seriously I wouldn't be here right now, and I would not have typed literally 1,500 words in a single post - which apparently everyone stopped reading after the first paragraph.

     You are willing to abdicate your own judgment to persons of questionable character for a "boring" election. One must wonder how far you trust these persons (who you have collaborated with for other questionable decisions in the past). One must also wonder that if you hold "boring" elections in such contempt, how do you feel about "boring" court cases?

     Besides, accusing Senators of smears and lies when we are the ones who will decide whether to confirm you is itself a poor decision. We want to select someone well-suited to the Court, and we have questions about your nomination based on your past record. Being combative does not help you.

[Bacon King]

     You are willing to abdicate your own judgment to persons of questionable character for a "boring" election. One must wonder how far you trust these persons (who you have collaborated with for other questionable decisions in the past). One must also wonder that if you hold "boring" elections in such contempt, how do you feel about "boring" court cases?

There's no such thing as a boring court case I could spend hours enthusiastically arguing the law on literally anything.

I didn't abdicate my judgement, I solicited advice. With all due respect Senator I fail to see how that has any bearing on my future job performance. I guess it was stupid to do but it's never affected my actions as a government official in any capacity.

I trust nobody (because, after all, this is politics), and when I'm a Senator I will be beholden to nobody because I won't have to face re-election. I'll be free from any influences and I will be able to use my own judgement. I will solicit no input and if anyone tries to tell me how to rule I'll publicly state that it happened for full transparency and declare it an obstruction of justice if they continue attempting to influence me. Nobody decides my opinions except me.

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My apologies, Senator, if I come across to you as combative - I'm simply intending to set the record straight. I am here to demonstrate why I would make an excellent member of the Supreme Court. I'm sorry if I'm not rhetorically behaving like you deem a nominee should, but if you want to pick a Supreme Court Justice with a congeniality contest then I'll let you know right now that I'm not who you want.

[Oakvale]

There's also the obvious fact that we're clearly going to do away with life terms in the ConCon so cool your jets, folks.

[Talleyrand]

There's also the obvious fact that we're clearly going to do away with life terms in the ConCon so cool your jets, folks.

What more do you expect from these clowns???

 Since they have gotten their behinds handed to them on every issue of substance ever since they joined the game ten-odd years ago, they are now impugning the character of one of our most respected public servants. What a JOKE!!!

[Maxwell]

The McCarthy trio in the Senate does nothing to surprise me anymore. This nominee is among the most qualified in history, and speaks to that experience rather eloquently. I have no questions and will vote for him as promptly as this witch hunt is called to a vote.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

There's also the obvious fact that we're clearly going to do away with life terms in the ConCon so cool your jets, folks.

What more do you expect from these clowns???

 Since they have gotten their behinds handed to them on every issue of substance ever since they joined the game ten-odd years ago, they are now impugning the character of one of our most respected public servants. What a JOKE!!!

LOL!

I've heard some absurd claims over the course of the last four months, but this one takes the cake. You do realize that Cris has been playing this game for roughly two years and I only joined in January, whereas yourself and Oakvale have been playing for a combined 8 years?

Nobody here is "smearing" Bacon King's character, but I'm not sure why you'd care if they were: if your actions over the last four months are any indication, you like nothing better than to spread falsehoods and libelous rumors about the people you dislike.

[Maxwell]

With all due respect Senator Truman, the world does not revolve around you. I believe Patriot Talleyrand is referring to Senator Strom Thurmond and Senator PiT.

[Classic Conservative]

Senator Truman the liars here in this body are people who you should not listen to their flip-floppers and they are just partisan hacks and this court nomination is just hackery to the greatest extent and part of their plan to destroy Atlasia and sadly shut out the center and the center right for next hindered years. I like Bacon King he's a good legal scholar but I don't believe he's the best person for the job. Also I'm sorry BK I didn't know that you suffered so much I hope and pray you are felling better.

[Classic Conservative]

Oh and my good friend from the Midwest I do believe Senator North Carolina Yankee is the famed Senator from the Palmetto State Storm Thurmond who little did you know passed away many years ago sorry if you just heard the news or is this just another fantasy of yours.

[Maxwell]

Senator Truman the liars here in this body are people who you should not listen to their flip-floppers and they are just partisan hacks and this court nomination is just hackery to the greatest extent and part of their plan to destroy Atlasia and sadly shut out the center and the center right for next hindered years. I like Bacon King he's a good legal scholar but I don't believe he's the best person for the job. Also I'm sorry BK I didn't know that you suffered so much I hope and pray you are felling better.

Oh and my good friend from the Midwest I do believe Senator North Carolina Yankee is the famed Senator from the Palmetto State Storm Thurmond who little did you know passed away many years ago sorry if you just heard the news or is this just another fantasy of yours.

I will not take advice from an election rigger and a ballot box stuffer.

[Classic Conservative]

Senator Truman the liars here in this body are people who you should not listen to their flip-floppers and they are just partisan hacks and this court nomination is just hackery to the greatest extent and part of their plan to destroy Atlasia and sadly shut out the center and the center right for next hindered years. I like Bacon King he's a good legal scholar but I don't believe he's the best person for the job. Also I'm sorry BK I didn't know that you suffered so much I hope and pray you are felling better.

Oh and my good friend from the Midwest I do believe Senator North Carolina Yankee is the famed Senator from the Palmetto State Storm Thurmond who little did you know passed away many years ago sorry if you just heard the news or is this just another fantasy of yours.

I will not take advice from an election rigger and a ballot box stuffer.

Tell me what election that I supposedly rigged my candidate won and I'm pretty sure I haven't voted more than once with stuffing ballot boxes.