a group of students wants to ban Stonewall from being shown

[dead0man]

and since I've made this poll, I'm guessing you have a pretty good idea which group is calling for a boycott.  Someone actually said the following

You must be logged in to read this quote.

ugggg

link-college's newspaper

If you don't know, Stonewall is a film made by a gay activist about the Stonewall riots in NYC in 1969.  If you don't know, the Stonewall riots happened when a bunch of queers, trannies, drag queens and supporters of the same got fed up with harassment from the NYPD and fought back.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Student politics is always lol

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

RAID only seem to exist in the interwebs due to this incident and the Catalyst is the only source

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

I read that the 2015 version was Godawful and got like a 9% rating out of 100. So there were probably good reasons to stop it from being shown. Nevermind that idiotic campus activists had to resort to their ass-backwards "logic" in order to accomplish their goals.

[Cory]

SJW's are dangerous to free speech and liberal democracy as always.

[ingemann]

Here I want to write something about the revolution eating their own children, circular firing squad etc. and Icwould mean it

But they do have a point about the protagonist in Stonewall being problematic, not necessary a bad protagonist, but he's problematic.

It reminded me of a Nazi victim monument I saw in Berlin, where different groups of victims was shown on video loop, one of the groups was lesbian women, there was just one problem, the Nazi singled out a lot of groups, but lesbians was not really among them, not that there wasn't lesbian victim of the regime, but it was because of other reasons.

[DavidB.]

LGBT students are apparently not allowed to know that their rights didn't fall from the skies.

Also, lmao: anti-Stonewall protest organizer Amelia Eskenazi on Facebook: "Critical discussion is a tactic to perpetuate oppressive ideologies." I mean, what on earth...? One would think this has to be satirical, but apparently it's not.

[Famous Mortimer]

LGBT students are apparently not allowed to know that their rights didn't fall from the skies.

Also, lmao: anti-Stonewall protest organizer Amelia Eskenazi on Facebook: "Critical discussion is a tactic to perpetuate oppressive ideologies." I mean, what on earth...? One would think this has to be satirical, but apparently it's not.

Trans people consider discussing the nature of trans-ness to be an attack because they know that once you think about it in any detail, it doesn't really make any sense.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

LGBT students are apparently not allowed to know that their rights didn't fall from the skies.

Also, lmao: anti-Stonewall protest organizer Amelia Eskenazi on Facebook: "Critical discussion is a tactic to perpetuate oppressive ideologies." I mean, what on earth...? One would think this has to be satirical, but apparently it's not.

Trans people consider discussing the nature of trans-ness to be an attack because they know that once you think about it in any detail, it doesn't really make any sense.

Don't insult the rest of the forum by insinuating we share the same thought processes and therefore are as dense as you, pls.

[Famous Mortimer]

LGBT students are apparently not allowed to know that their rights didn't fall from the skies.

Also, lmao: anti-Stonewall protest organizer Amelia Eskenazi on Facebook: "Critical discussion is a tactic to perpetuate oppressive ideologies." I mean, what on earth...? One would think this has to be satirical, but apparently it's not.

Trans people consider discussing the nature of trans-ness to be an attack because they know that once you think about it in any detail, it doesn't really make any sense.

Don't insult the rest of the forum by insinuating we share the same thought processes and therefore are as dense as you, pls.

The Trans community has no answer to the question "what makes someone a man or a woman?"

[Blue3]

"Look at me, I'm so radical I'm FOR the establishment, look at me!"

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

LGBT students are apparently not allowed to know that their rights didn't fall from the skies.

Yes, because Stonewall does such a good job of portraying the LGBT rights movement accurately.

[DavidB.]

Yes, because Stonewall does such a good job of portraying the LGBT rights movement accurately.

Haven't seen it; cannot judge it. However, does a film have to be objectively accurate in order to be allowed to be shown on campus?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

LGBT students are apparently not allowed to know that their rights didn't fall from the skies.

Also, lmao: anti-Stonewall protest organizer Amelia Eskenazi on Facebook: "Critical discussion is a tactic to perpetuate oppressive ideologies." I mean, what on earth...? One would think this has to be satirical, but apparently it's not.

Trans people consider discussing the nature of trans-ness to be an attack because they know that once you think about it in any detail, it doesn't really make any sense.

Don't insult the rest of the forum by insinuating we share the same thought processes and therefore are as dense as you, pls.

The Trans community has no answer to the question "what makes someone a man or a woman?"

Tbh I and others have made the answe many times on both Atlas forums, a collective wealth of words that has been ignored by Atlas's "community" of neckbeard rapist misanthropists, a community consisting soley of you, you piece of human trash. Responding to reasoned argument isn't fun for a little drip like you, I guess, so you continue to breather on as if you are the world's densest most impenetrable being. I don't buy that act, you inbred POS. Jump in a lake and logoff forever you useless loser.

[Cory]

Trans people consider discussing the nature of trans-ness to be an attack because they know that once you think about it in any detail, it doesn't really make any sense.

This isn't about Trans people. This is about SJW's being over-sensitive. If someone identifies as a sex different then their body, then who am I to doubt them if they are of age and have no relevant mental illnesses?

IIRC we even have bran scans and such then show that often time people really are "a X trapped in a Y body".

[RI]

"Group of students want to ban ___________ for offending them" is hardly news anymore.

[Green Line]

LGBT students are apparently not allowed to know that their rights didn't fall from the skies.

Also, lmao: anti-Stonewall protest organizer Amelia Eskenazi on Facebook: "Critical discussion is a tactic to perpetuate oppressive ideologies." I mean, what on earth...? One would think this has to be satirical, but apparently it's not.

Trans people consider discussing the nature of trans-ness to be an attack because they know that once you think about it in any detail, it doesn't really make any sense.

Don't insult the rest of the forum by insinuating we share the same thought processes and therefore are as dense as you, pls.

The Trans community has no answer to the question "what makes someone a man or a woman?"

Tbh I and others have made the answe many times on both Atlas forums, a collective wealth of words that has been ignored by Atlas's "community" of neckbeard rapist misanthropists, a community consisting soley of you, you piece of human trash. Responding to reasoned argument isn't fun for a little drip like you, I guess, so you continue to breather on as if you are the world's densest most impenetrable being. I don't buy that act, you inbred POS. Jump in a lake and logoff forever you useless loser.

You should probably do the same.  Get over it crabbycake, not everyone agrees with you.  Sorry (and no I don't agree with Mortimer)

[Famous Mortimer]

LGBT students are apparently not allowed to know that their rights didn't fall from the skies.

Also, lmao: anti-Stonewall protest organizer Amelia Eskenazi on Facebook: "Critical discussion is a tactic to perpetuate oppressive ideologies." I mean, what on earth...? One would think this has to be satirical, but apparently it's not.

Trans people consider discussing the nature of trans-ness to be an attack because they know that once you think about it in any detail, it doesn't really make any sense.

Don't insult the rest of the forum by insinuating we share the same thought processes and therefore are as dense as you, pls.

The Trans community has no answer to the question "what makes someone a man or a woman?"

Tbh I and others have made the answe many times on both Atlas forums, a collective wealth of words that has been ignored by Atlas's "community" of neckbeard rapist misanthropists, a community consisting soley of you, you piece of human trash. Responding to reasoned argument isn't fun for a little drip like you, I guess, so you continue to breather on as if you are the world's densest most impenetrable being. I don't buy that act, you inbred POS. Jump in a lake and logoff forever you useless loser.

I've legitimately never heard you or anyone else answer the question "what makes a woman a woman?" from a trans perspective. I have however heard trans activists straight up admit they don't have an answer though, usually in the context of "I don't have an answer but it doesn't matter/it doesn't concern you/**** you" or "I don't have an answer but neither do TERFS" (which of course isn't true since TERFs just define womanhood by biological sex). Usually though they just dodge the question completely "the fact that you even ask such a question is oppressive and offensive and I refuse to answer it" pretty much the response you just gave me. So if you DO have a REAL answer, you should probably go ahead and give it, since even most trans activists don't seem to know.

[Ebsy]

It shouldn't be shown since it is just bad, but college students crying foul over something ridiculous is nothing new.

[Higgs]

LGBT students are apparently not allowed to know that their rights didn't fall from the skies.

Also, lmao: anti-Stonewall protest organizer Amelia Eskenazi on Facebook: "Critical discussion is a tactic to perpetuate oppressive ideologies." I mean, what on earth...? One would think this has to be satirical, but apparently it's not.

Trans people consider discussing the nature of trans-ness to be an attack because they know that once you think about it in any detail, it doesn't really make any sense.

Don't insult the rest of the forum by insinuating we share the same thought processes and therefore are as dense as you, pls.

The Trans community has no answer to the question "what makes someone a man or a woman?"

Tbh I and others have made the answe many times on both Atlas forums, a collective wealth of words that has been ignored by Atlas's "community" of neckbeard rapist misanthropists, a community consisting soley of you, you piece of human trash. Responding to reasoned argument isn't fun for a little drip like you, I guess, so you continue to breather on as if you are the world's densest most impenetrable being. I don't buy that act, you inbred POS. Jump in a lake and logoff forever you useless loser.

Christ dude chill he's just trying to have a debate, maybe he hasn't seen your posts before, why not just say it again?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

LGBT students are apparently not allowed to know that their rights didn't fall from the skies.

Also, lmao: anti-Stonewall protest organizer Amelia Eskenazi on Facebook: "Critical discussion is a tactic to perpetuate oppressive ideologies." I mean, what on earth...? One would think this has to be satirical, but apparently it's not.

Trans people consider discussing the nature of trans-ness to be an attack because they know that once you think about it in any detail, it doesn't really make any sense.

Don't insult the rest of the forum by insinuating we share the same thought processes and therefore are as dense as you, pls.

The Trans community has no answer to the question "what makes someone a man or a woman?"

Tbh I and others have made the answe many times on both Atlas forums, a collective wealth of words that has been ignored by Atlas's "community" of neckbeard rapist misanthropists, a community consisting soley of you, you piece of human trash. Responding to reasoned argument isn't fun for a little drip like you, I guess, so you continue to breather on as if you are the world's densest most impenetrable being. I don't buy that act, you inbred POS. Jump in a lake and logoff forever you useless loser.

Christ dude chill he's just trying to have a debate, maybe he hasn't seen your posts before, why not just say it again?

Was drunk tbf and Willips is an annoying idiot so he pissed me off. Sorry Willips.


Anyway, the reason trans activists have difficulty articulating the concrete differences between the genders, is, err, nobody can. There are a few factors that are a mark of dimorphism, but none of them are 100% reliable or can be taken at face value. here are some of them:

karyotypic differences

The first port of call is the lesson we all learnt (or will learn in the case of some of our junior members) around the age of 12: the role of the sex-determining chromosomes, which in humans is based on the XY system.  At fertilisation, the presence of the Y chromosome (in particular the SRY region) will cause an embryo to develop as a male, the lack of it (XX) will cause a female embryo to develop.

Unfortunately, much like many such simple science lessons, this process becomes filled with asterisks and "well ... but". sometimes when the sperm or egg get "made" in the Gonads the "manufacturing process" effs up. The X chromosome could accidentally get "given" the SRY region causing a genetic male to develop as a woman (de La Chapelle syndrome). Klinefelter's syndrome (XXY) by gametes foolishly carrying more than one sex chromosome, is also fairly common and causes sterile males. turner's syndrome is another such case of Abnormality, where individuals are born with only one X chromosome. And really there is no limit to the amount of chromomes a mutation during gamete production can give you tbh. (Although 4+ sex chromomes is rare for logical reasons)

I say this not to suggest these disorders are "the cause" of transgenderism, (they aren't, although a few studies have shown different genetic influences on transgenderism) but to emphasise that the classic chromosomal pattern is not a foolproof way to mark the distinction between the two sexes or to answer the question "what makes a man or a woman".

Primary sex differences: genitals


Now this seems like an easy one t first. When babies are born, one of the gist things the medic mug do is sex it. He or she will look at the genitals, and tick male or female depending on what they see. Many people view the whole of humanity little more than disembodied genitalia, so this seems fair: A binary way of establishing maleness and femaleness.

But yet ... no. Like all population information, the exact percentage is hilariously different depending on the definition (it seems to be about as common as typical transgender people fwiw), but the number of intersex people - people who were born with atypical sex chararistics - is enough to menace the lives of poor doctors who have to make coin-tosses to see what gender to assign ( official doctor's guidelines give an amusingly bureaucratic definition on the lengths of clitori and penises to help them out). These intersexual symptoms can manifest themselves in all sorts of ways: overproduction of steroids in womb, inability of cell receptors to detect testosterone, the syndromes described above etc.

The ambiguities above suggest that genitals alone cannot mark the differences between men and women. The IOC and other sporting organisations have run into the same problem, and most experts agree that existing "genital tests" are ridiculous and unfair.

What about some other form of sexual dimorphism? Secondary sex attributes maybe? They only start manifesting themselves upon puberty and the activation of several hormones, most importantly the steroids oestrogen and testosterone. Perhaps hormones is the only to distinguish between the genders.

Well, no. First off this implies that children are a genderless blob until the age of eleven, which is not true. Many studies have shown that boys and girls, even accounting for the influence of socialisation, have significantly different psychological make-ups (the important thing in these sort of studies is to remember there is overlap and the study is general, otherwise tradcons come out of the woodwork and soapbox about being right along.) the creepy experiment of Dr John Money who essentially abused a child to promote his theory leaves gender neutral preadolescence even shadier - Dr money would prematurely claim success, but the child would commit suicide later on life and was stalked with various mental issues and sexual confusion.

It is clear hormones do have a strong effect on brain plasticity though (there was a very peculiar theory that floated round in the past that explained away gender dysphoria by suggesting they should be cured with their birth gender's hormones - which breaks down in about three seconds if you think about it, and was definitively disproven earlier this year). These cannot explain all dimorphism found by psychologists in early childhood (as explained above) but it gives some credence to the idea that hormones do change the brain. HOWEVER other studies have shown that the each gender's brain responds better to the correct hormone. (This seems to be the best working hypothesis I've found for transgenderism)

Dimorphism in the Brain

This is controversial, partially becomes it comes laden with irritating pseuds seeking scientific cover for lousy WOMEN FROM MARS MEN FROM PENIS jokes, and partially because it is very political by nature. Some feminists would have you believe that there are no differences between the brains of men and women. This is not true, certainly from a physiological perspective (the brain anatomy are very different) and probably not from a neurological POV. mRI scans show several clear differences between men and women.

In terms of transgender people in particular, although "male brain in a female body" is a dumb media neologism; several regions of the brains in both trans women and trans men behave as their gender identity when scanned. The terminal stria region of the brain (which regulates sexual arousal and anxiety) have been most well-looked at by several independent studies all of which show the same result: transgender people have similar terminal stria sizes to their chosen identity. This again seems to boost the idea that the brains of transgender women, when controlled for the effects of hormones, are more similar to genetic females than genetic males (and vice versa for FTM's)

Not many trans people have the time or inclination to dip into arcane medical studies and I don't blame them. For your average Josephine it is simple as "I'm hurting, I need treatment". I've never seen somebody walk up to someone with liver cancer and ask them the physiological implications, but every transgender person must be confronted with complicated matters. But it seems clear to me that gender (quite apart from that arbitrary "sex" we use to give upon birth so bureaucrats can do their stuff) is complicated, to the extent your quest for a "simple definition between the two genders" is futile. You can't dismiss an theory because it's complicated. Gender is a competing feud between a veritable smorgasbord of different factors: genetic, prenatal, physiological, endocrine, neurological, psychological and sociological. I'm afraid science is a complicated thing.

[Flake]

Crabcake continues to prove he's one of our most valuable posters.

[Famous Mortimer]

I fail to see how some people having the (harmless and no way shameful) birth defect of ambiguous genitalia means that people who are genetically 100% normal males with normal penises can be woman or that people who are genetically 100% normal females with normal vaginas can be men. It's basically a non-sequitur. I ask about the reasoning behind trans-ness and you change the subject to intersexuality. Again, probably because on some level you realize the trans argument makes no sense and so rather than defend it directly, you try to draw a non-existent connection between transpeople and another group with a real concrete medical condition.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I fail to see how some people having the (harmless and no way shameful) birth defect of ambiguous genitalia means that people who are genetically 100% normal males with normal penises can be woman or that people who are genetically 100% normal females with normal vaginas can be men. It's basically a non-sequitur. I ask about the reasoning behind trans-ness and you change the subject to intersexuality. Again, probably because on some level you realize the trans argument makes no sense and so rather than defend it directly, you try to draw a non-existent connection between transpeople and another group with a real concrete medical condition.

Did you read the other parts of CrabCake's post?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Lmao. After that "response" I suddenly remember why my first reaction was to scorn.