Opinion of Ho Chi Minh

[Intell]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh

I'll say an extremely flawed character but definitely better than the French.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

HP. Let's not get so caught up in condemning American involvement in Vietnam (which, for the record, was immoral and stupid) that we forget that the North Vietnamese regime was truly horrible.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

HP. Let's not get so caught up in condemning American involvement in Vietnam (which, for the record, was immoral and stupid) that we forget that the North Vietnamese regime was truly horrible.

^^^^

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

HP, though probably the least bad of any Communist dictator.

[OSR stands with Israel]

HP

[SWE]

The lesser evil, but still a Marxist-Leninist dictator. HP.

[Clark Kent]

Communist=HP

[Crumpets]

HP. Although I did get to see his body when I was in Hanoi, and even in death he is still a pretty awe-inspiring figure, even if for the wrong reasons.

[Hydera]

Communist=HP

I think its funny how Lenin, Mao and Ho. Despite fighting for communism for their whole lives. Their countries eventually adopt capitalism


All they get in the end is being literally forced to become semi-wax zombies. I could be wrong but i did remember when i went to Beijing years ago you had to pay for a ticket which was ironic.

[TNF]

HP. Let's not get so caught up in condemning American involvement in Vietnam (which, for the record, was immoral and stupid) that we forget that the North Vietnamese regime was truly horrible.

Yeah, it's really horrible to make sure that people have a place to sleep, food to eat, adequate medical care, and a job.

Communist=HP

I think its funny how Lenin, Mao and Ho. Despite fighting for communism for their whole lives. Their countries eventually adopt capitalism

Interestingly enough, the USSR was never capitalist at any point during it's 70 year lifespan and capitalism itself was not restored there until the USSR was overthrown by internal counterrevolutionary elements among the Stalinist bureaucracy and external economic and military pressures. Likewise, both Vietnam and China retain state-owned, state-directed economies, in spite of adopting market-oriented reforms since the 1970s. Neither of those countries are capitalist, however.

As for the OP, Ho Chi Minh was a Stalinist despot who purged the Trotskyists (i.e. the actual Marxists) that made up the majority of the Indochinese Communist Party in the 1940s and set back the struggle for independence by making deal after deal with the Western powers and only moving to actual resistance whenever popular opposition pushed him in that direction. That said, the Vietnamese struggle for independence and unification was a progressive historical struggle that wiped out capitalism in Indochina (where allied communists came to power in Laos, and later (after the stamping out of the primitivist Khmer Rouge by the Vietnamese) Cambodia) and uplifted the poor peasantry of the country, greatly enhancing social welfare for the masses of these countries, improving literacy, and opening up equal opportunity for women.

That his Stalinist forebears have moved away from all these things in an attempt to pursue 'peaceful coexistence' with Western imperialism is not surprising given it's unstable social position and need to balance itself against a (growing) Vietnamese working class with social power that could threaten its ability to rule. Nonetheless, Vietnam remains a (bureaucratically deformed) workers' state today, one in need of a political revolution to oust  Ho's heirs and place the workers and poor farmers of Vietnam in power.

Voted FF in the poll in protest of the anti-communist garbage in this thread.

[Zioneer]

He was a dictator who killed a lot of people, but was better than the South Vietnamese leaders, and at least at the beginning supposedly modeled his independence movement on America's (complete with a Declaration of Independence, I think). So FF, I suppose.

I don't know what TNF is talking about, but I do agree that in many ways, the Vietnamese are better off then they were before Ho Chi Minh. The dictatorial stuff wasn't the best way to go about it, however.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

HP. Let's not get so caught up in condemning American involvement in Vietnam (which, for the record, was immoral and stupid) that we forget that the North Vietnamese regime was truly horrible.

Yeah, it's really horrible to make sure that people have a place to sleep, food to eat, adequate medical care, and a job.

Communist=HP

I think its funny how Lenin, Mao and Ho. Despite fighting for communism for their whole lives. Their countries eventually adopt capitalism

Interestingly enough, the USSR was never capitalist at any point during it's 70 year lifespan and capitalism itself was not restored there until the USSR was overthrown by internal counterrevolutionary elements among the Stalinist bureaucracy and external economic and military pressures. Likewise, both Vietnam and China retain state-owned, state-directed economies, in spite of adopting market-oriented reforms since the 1970s. Neither of those countries are capitalist, however.

As for the OP, Ho Chi Minh was a Stalinist despot who purged the Trotskyists (i.e. the actual Marxists) that made up the majority of the Indochinese Communist Party in the 1940s and set back the struggle for independence by making deal after deal with the Western powers and only moving to actual resistance whenever popular opposition pushed him in that direction. That said, the Vietnamese struggle for independence and unification was a progressive historical struggle that wiped out capitalism in Indochina (where allied communists came to power in Laos, and later (after the stamping out of the primitivist Khmer Rouge by the Vietnamese) Cambodia) and uplifted the poor peasantry of the country, greatly enhancing social welfare for the masses of these countries, improving literacy, and opening up equal opportunity for women.

That his Stalinist forebears have moved away from all these things in an attempt to pursue 'peaceful coexistence' with Western imperialism is not surprising given it's unstable social position and need to balance itself against a (growing) Vietnamese working class with social power that could threaten its ability to rule. Nonetheless, Vietnam remains a (bureaucratically deformed) workers' state today, one in need of a political revolution to oust  Ho's heirs and place the workers and poor farmers of Vietnam in power.

Voted FF in the poll in protest of the anti-communist garbage in this thread.

You have been missed, dear Comrade

[Clark Kent]

anti-communist garbage

There's no such thing.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Communist=HP

anti-communist garbage

There's no such thing.

How can a communist be anti-communist?

[Extrabase500]

filth

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

anti-communist garbage

There's no such thing.

Well, one must be careful throwing around absolutes! I can name a few fairly unsavoury anti-communists that I would label as garbage.

[TNF]

anti-communist garbage

There's no such thing.

How about these guys?

[OSR stands with Israel]

anti-communist garbage

There's no such thing.

How about these guys?

Reagan, and Thatcher were amazing leaders

[TNF]

Amazing if you weren't an air traffic controller, black person (what with the CIA funneling crack-cocaine into the ghetto for the whole of the 1980s!), Nicaraguan peasant, miner, Afghan woman, etc, etc.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Amazing if you weren't an air traffic controller, black person (what with the CIA funneling crack-cocaine into the ghetto for the whole of the 1980s!), Nicaraguan peasant, miner, Afghan woman, etc, etc.

Reagan did the correct thing in firing the Air Traffic Controllers, black unemployment was cut in half and their wages went up between 1980 to 1988. Lol at blaming the Afghan women condition at Reagan as they were in great condition , before THE SOVIETS INVADED AND OVERTHREW THEIR STABLE GOVERMENT,  Nicargua  was horrible but it never would have happened if the Commies didnt overthrow their government in the 1970s which destabilized the country.

[Thunderbird is the word]

Amazing if you weren't an air traffic controller, black person (what with the CIA funneling crack-cocaine into the ghetto for the whole of the 1980s!), Nicaraguan peasant, miner, Afghan woman, etc, etc.

[Figueira]

anti-communist garbage

There's no such thing.

How about these guys?

Reagan, and Thatcher were amazing leaders

The point being, as long as Superman thinks that at least one of those people is garbage, his point makes no sense.

[Zioneer]

Amazing if you weren't an air traffic controller, black person (what with the CIA funneling crack-cocaine into the ghetto for the whole of the 1980s!), Nicaraguan peasant, miner, Afghan woman, etc, etc.

Lets cut that down to "if you weren't a rich white American (or Briton in Thatchers case) it was amazing".

[Hydera]

Amazing if you weren't an air traffic controller, black person (what with the CIA funneling crack-cocaine into the ghetto for the whole of the 1980s!), Nicaraguan peasant, miner, Afghan woman, etc, etc.

[Clark Kent]

anti-communist garbage

There's no such thing.

Reagan, and Thatcher were amazing leaders

The point being, as long as Superman thinks that at least one of those people is garbage, his point makes no sense.

They're either great or communists themselves as far as I'm concerned. I mean, it's not like communists have ever fought one another, right?

We don't talk about Trotsky.