Dropping the 'T' in LGBT

[afleitch]

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/11/07/outrageous-petition-to-drop-t-from-lgbt-slammed-by-campaigners

'A petition to drop the ‘T’ from ‘LGBT’ has been heavily criticised by LGBT rights organisations.
The Change.org petition, which has been signed by a thousand people, calls for ‘T’ to be removed from ‘LGBT’. It was created by a group of gay, bisexual and lesbian women who want trans people to be “disassociated” with the term LGBT.

The petition reads: “In essence, we ask that organizations such as the Human Rights Campaign, GLAAD, Lambda Legal and media outlets such as The Advocate, Out, Huff Post Gay Voices, etc., stop representing the transgender community as we feel their ideology is not only completely different from that promoted by the LGB community (LGB is about sexual orientation, trans is about gender identity), but is ultimately regressive and actually hostile to the goals of women and gay men.”

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Thoughts?

[afleitch]

Well, this is for L, G, B, and T individuals to decide on. I have always considered rather strange the combination of LGB on the one hand and T on the other hand, since there is a difference between one's sexual orientation and one's gender identity.

Which is one of the issues. There is a bubbling undercurrent of misogyny within many trans activist groups who are fixated on adopting a singular gender identity and associated outward characteristics which is counter to many arguments made in feminist and queer theory. It is rarely addressed. For many long standing activists, it's very strange to find yourself or your fight for equality being 'marginalised' because you are a gay male (which is considered a 'privileged' position (!) by some within LGBT circles), or being accused of being 'transphobic' if your sexual attraction doesn't extend to trans individuals. Some of the rhetoric is becoming self destructive.

I'm not as involved in such things as much as I used to be, but those I know who are still very much involved seem to be treading on eggshells despite being some of the most supportive people when it comes to trans issues.

[afleitch]

I have to admit that I can sort of understand the desire to disassociate oneself from trans politics and trans talking points. And I say that as a trans person. But basically just throwing people to the wolves doesn't strike me as a substantive solution.

I don't agree with the petition. But I can understand that the LGBT movement is starting to 'fray' a little as a result of unspoken tensions that are existing.

Bringing in language of the need to 'change' (some trans activists have even used the word 'correct' when talking about gender) into the LGBT sphere doesn't sit well with those who find that rhetoric uncomfortable. I also agree that some trans activists in many ways are re-inforcing gender, not subverting it or allowing it to be fluid and to allow women (in particular) to define it for themselves after generations of it being defined for them. They are only one step removed from so-cons on this matter.

[afleitch]

For one thing, it was two trans women that started the Stonewall Riots, yet it's the gay establishment that takes credit for it.  This is one reason why we need a greater awareness of LGBT history.

This idea of some gay people to 'drop the T' is not the answer.  Running away from trans issues rather than addressing them is exactly what HERO opponents want to see.

The Stonewall Inn was a mafia run bar for white, male, generally middle class clientele. There is little evidence, other than from Rivera herself that she was there. The idea that it was a 'bunch of drag queens' is equally suspect based on who frequented the bar. The riots outside were more mixed but the riots inside the bar were fought by gay men. Trans activists are propogating a myth.

[afleitch]

Well, for one thing, there's this tendency to talk as if 'trans' is a category that includes or subsumes any kind of gender-nonconformity, which is cropping up more and more recently in, for instance, calls to put younger and younger children on hormone blockers, despite the fact that most gender-nonconforming children end up non-trans gay adults. You also get people insisting that butch lesbians MUST be trans men or that twinks (is that accepted nomenclature? I haven't heard an actual gay man use that word but that could just be due to lack of much socialization with non-woman LGBT people on my part) MUST be trans women, et cetera. This sort of stuff is insulting and, curiously, really sexist, and harmful to both trans and non-trans people.

There is certainly a 'reappropriation' of how people express themselves or have expressed themselves in terms of transvestitism, butch, femme etc as 'oh well they are trans really'. That is bleeding into the past as well (see the Stonewall riots) and is 'a very bad thing' in that it is erasing people's identities that don't, as you say, fit into one or the other. Which is where as I've mentioned before some trans activists and anti LGBT traditionalists share a horrible common ground. Certainly there is undue pressure on teenagers in encouraging them to conform to a 'one or the other' identity and to seek medical intervention. Again, some dangerous common ground.

'Twink' has disappeared (outside of porn labelling...was it ever outside of it anyway?) because there's a crisis in masculinity amongst gay men. In part propagated by the 'oh you must be trans then' mindset from both sides. 'Flamboyancy' makes gay men uncomfortable because it's a stabbing stereotype and is in many ways seen as an offensive pastiche by some in the trans community. So they have silently disappeared/joined a gym.

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I think that (and I'm not speaking from experience here) is that those who are transgender traditionally often have to play the long game, in terms of spending an uncomfortable and difficult amount of time as physically in the wrong sex. However more recent activists are keen on quicker fixes (literally) and that in itself I think has led to trans identity bleeding into areas where it shouldn't. Gender re-assignment/hormone therapy etc is held up as being 'The Solution', when actually for many people with gender identity issues, it isn't.

[afleitch]

This is very interesting, but if it was supposed to be effective it should have taken place 20 years ago.

I'm glad that Maddy also sees something wrong with trying to declare prepubescent children transgendered, though.

I mean, sure, I personally would have found it helpful if I had been put on some sort of hormone blockers to see if there was any way to stop me from ending up six-foot-three with dark, fast-growing facial hair, but objectively speaking my mother and doctors definitely made the safer choice in not going there, even though as it happened I ended up one of the minority of children with that experience who actually face these problems as adults.

http://www.nms.ac.uk/media/157646/blairs-memorial-portrait.jpg

Well 6 foot 1 according to contemporaries. But still.