Slovenia referendum on teh gays, Dec 20th

[Orthogonian Society Treasurer]

It's only a matter of years before the same question is asked again, and SSM is accepted.

Central and eastern european countries are a few years behind western or nordic Europe on this topic, but the trend is in the same direction everywhere.

Do you realize how Orwellian and creepy this sounds?

[DavidB.]

It's only a matter of years before the same question is asked again, and SSM is accepted.

Central and eastern european countries are a few years behind western or nordic Europe on this topic, but the trend is in the same direction everywhere.

Do you realize how Orwellian and creepy this sounds?

I find people who consider same-sex marriage creepy to be much more creepy...

[Orthogonian Society Treasurer]

It's only a matter of years before the same question is asked again, and SSM is accepted.

Central and eastern european countries are a few years behind western or nordic Europe on this topic, but the trend is in the same direction everywhere.

Do you realize how Orwellian and creepy this sounds?

I find people who consider same-sex marriage creepy to be much more creepy...

If you sound like you've been taking rhetoric lessons with Nikita Khrushchev, there's probably something fishy with whatever you're selling.

[swl]

It's only a matter of years before the same question is asked again, and SSM is accepted.

Central and eastern european countries are a few years behind western or nordic Europe on this topic, but the trend is in the same direction everywhere.

Do you realize how Orwellian and creepy this sounds?

Not really, you will have to explain

[DavidB.]

It seems like a realistic expectation that it's only a matter of years until there is a majority for same sex-marriage in many Eastern European countries. In fact, I think in countries like the Czech Republic and Estonia there might already be a majority.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Tbh I think it's more likely the ECHR forces them to accept it, tbh

[ObserverIE]

Tbh I think it's more likely the ECHR forces them to accept it, tbh

Given that the likes of Germany, Austria or Italy have still to introduce SSM, I would have thought that point is a long way down the line. Partnership recognition may be another matter.

[Zanas]

1957

It's only a matter of years before the same question is asked again, and SSM interracial marriage is accepted.
Central and eastern european countries Southern states are a few years behind western or nordic Europe Northern states on this topic, but the trend is in the same direction everywhere.

Do you realize how Orwellian and creepy this sounds?

Here, I'm helping you. For a number of things, history marches towards progress. Deal with it.

[Iannis]

They made the mistake of putting together gay marriages and child adoptions. Many many people, not necessarily catholic, are strongly against the latter. And this is the result.

[Famous Mortimer]

They made the mistake of putting together gay marriages and child adoptions. Many many people, not necessarily catholic, are strongly against the latter. And this is the result.

I know it's generally accepted that gay adoptions is a more liberal position than gay marriage but honestly that doesn't really make sense. If you oppose gay marriage, you might just be doing it for blind religious reasons and not have any especially negative feelings for gay people. If you oppose adoption, it's because you think all gay people are necessarily pedophiles.

[Tender Branson]

But understandable, because gay marriage was always overpolling in South-/Eastern Europe in the past years - mostly by huge margins.

[DavidB.]

If you oppose adoption, it's because you think all gay people are necessarily pedophiles.

I don't think this is necessarily true: opposition to gay adoption doesn't have to be related to pedophilia. One can consider gay marriage okay because "love is love" and gay people's marriage does not hurt anybody, yet think children should be raised by non-same-sex parents because that is the "natural way of families" and by adopting children, gay couples involve others in their "lifestyle".

To be sure, I don't agree with this line of reasoning and I am in favor of gay couples having the same rights when it comes to adopting children, but I could see why people consider supporting gay adoption a more liberal position than supporting same-sex marriage.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Tbh I think it's more likely the ECHR forces them to accept it, tbh

Given that the likes of Germany, Austria or Italy have still to introduce SSM, I would have thought that point is a long way down the line. Partnership recognition may be another matter.

Oh I agree, I just think an ECHR ruling is more likely than  this result beong nullified by another referendum. Gay rights group S/liberal magicians in Slovenia need to focus on less sexy aims like education, anti discrimination ordinances and encouraging high profile people to come out. If that fails get the gayest Fluoride as possible in the public water supply ASAP to turn all straight people homo.

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

If you oppose adoption, it's because you think all gay people are necessarily pedophiles.

I don't think this is necessarily true: opposition to gay adoption doesn't have to be related to pedophilia. One can consider gay marriage okay because "love is love" and gay people's marriage does not hurt anybody, yet think children should be raised by non-same-sex parents because that is the "natural way of families" and by adopting children, gay couples involve others in their "lifestyle".

To be sure, I don't agree with this line of reasoning and I am in favor of gay couples having the same rights when it comes to adopting children, but I could see why people consider supporting gay adoption a more liberal position than supporting same-sex marriage.

Just noticed something, a little bit offtopic:
Real-not imaginary liberal Jew strongly supporting priviliges for homosexual people. Wet dream of nationalists, the best Christmas present ever for them.

[Iannis]

They made the mistake of putting together gay marriages and child adoptions. Many many people, not necessarily catholic, are strongly against the latter. And this is the result.

I know it's generally accepted that gay adoptions is a more liberal position than gay marriage but honestly that doesn't really make sense. If you oppose gay marriage, you might just be doing it for blind religious reasons and not have any especially negative feelings for gay people. If you oppose adoption, it's because you think all gay people are necessarily pedophiles.

Please.... many people just think that a minor should grow, if possible, with a mother and a father of opposit sex, period.
Indeed in Italy the law proposed by the majority in the PArliament is about civil contracts only between gay and only with stepchild adoption, wich, by the way, is likely to be sacked, leaving just the gay civil partnership.

[DavidB.]

Just noticed something, a little bit offtopic:
Real-not imaginary liberal Jew strongly supporting priviliges for homosexual people. Wet dream of nationalists, the best Christmas present ever for them.

I'm not really sure if I understand you correctly. Your point is that I shouldn't hold liberal positions on issues regarding gay people because I'm Jewish and that will cause some "nationalists" to "rationalize" their anti-Semitism? Because that doesn't really fly with me. If "nationalists" find it relevant that I'm Jewish when I hold liberal positions on issues regarding gay people, then they'll also find it relevant that I'm Jewish when I don't. Besides that (and more importantly), they are the ones who should learn to live with the fact that Jews, like non-Jews, have a right to hold every position they want to hold in the debate regarding homosexuality. My right to live in Europe or in the Netherlands does not depend on my political views, and that is not likely to change anytime soon. Changing my positions because a few anti-Semitic people might otherwise become more anti-Semitic would be rather absurd.

Apart from that, anti-Semitic nationalists in the Netherlands aren't really a thing -- not taking into account 4chan and some far-right neo-nazi fringe group with fewer than 300 members. I don't necessarily associate nationalism with anti-Semitism, although in Eastern Europe they are of course often linked.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

David I have some questions. In your secret Jew meetings, how do you decide which Gentiles to turn gay?

[DavidB.]

David I have some questions. In your secret Jew meetings, how do you decide which Gentiles to turn gay?

Just produce series like Glee, Will & Grace, and Orange Is The New Black and things will sort themselves out Next question about our secrets?

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

Eh, I wanted to be funny and impress all the people with my fantastic sense of humour but as always it went wrong. It was just joke on all that people who see Jews as ultra-evil nationality, using social liberalism and LGBT movements to destroy THA NATION, OUR EUROPEAN HERITAGE. I don't know how in the Netherlands but in Poland there are some people like that. Jointly with US-rael, Russia as defender of Christianity/main anti-Imperial force (personally I am also not the greatest fan of the atlanticism, thallasocracies etc. but hey, there is no state which is "saint" even not Saint Kitts and Nevis). What is funny I think almost equally on the left side and on the right side. Conspiracy theories are cool.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I thought it was pretty funny kataak. BTW is 'liberal magicians' a Polish thing or did you invent it? Because I'm tempted to steal it lol

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

My own invention, although I am using it only on that forum as in Polish it doesn't sound well.
:I

[Sol]

A little bit offtopic, but I've always thought it interesting that in gay adoption in Europe seems to be so controversial considering that it's basically always been the opposite in the US. Why is that so?

[Iannis]

A little bit offtopic, but I've always thought it interesting that in gay adoption in Europe seems to be so controversial considering that it's basically always been the opposite in the US. Why is that so?

You mean that in USA the issue is about gay marriages and there is no objection to gay adoption? Ot that there is no relevant difference between % in favour of gay marriages and gay adoption?

[MaxQue]

A little bit offtopic, but I've always thought it interesting that in gay adoption in Europe seems to be so controversial considering that it's basically always been the opposite in the US. Why is that so?

You mean that in USA the issue is about gay marriages and there is no objection to gay adoption? Ot that there is no relevant difference between % in favour of gay marriages and gay adoption?

In North America, gay adoption was usually 20% more popular than gay marriage. I seen no number since the huge change in SSM fortunes in USA, though.

Gay adoption is not considered as a controversial subject by most people (There has been an huge debate in some states whether private adoption providers (usually churches) could decide to exclude gays from being potential parents).

[Zanas]

The reason :
- in the US : "oh my GAWD gay marriage is an attack on the sanctity of marriage that should stay a religious institution forever !"
- in Europe : "oh my GAWD gays are pedophiles !!!1!!1! (but marriage is here since before Christianism was even born so, meh.)"