A Resolution Establishing Several Senate Select Committees. (Passed)
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  A Resolution Establishing Several Senate Select Committees. (Passed)
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Author Topic: A Resolution Establishing Several Senate Select Committees. (Passed)  (Read 1063 times)
Senator Cris
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« on: November 10, 2015, 08:50:08 AM »
« edited: December 12, 2015, 03:48:32 PM by Speaker Cris »

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Sponsor: Senator Barnes
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2015, 11:32:31 AM »

     I like the idea of temporary Senate committees to deal with certain pressing issues. Would the GM be encouraged to take part in the development of these reports?
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2015, 06:38:53 PM »

This isn't a bad idea in principle, but I do have a question for the sponsor: given that the Constitutional Convention has voted to establish a three-Region map, would not the long-range usefulness of these final reports be somewhat limited, or do you see a broader use for these findings beyond addressing the current turmoil in the Northeast and the Pacific?
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Maxwell
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« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2015, 06:43:35 PM »

I am conflicted - Griffghazi is of great concern to me, and perhaps we need a committee to investigate. At the same time, we have tried committees before and it was not good.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2015, 06:50:57 PM »

OH YOU BROUGHT ME A PRESENT, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE, BARNSY!!!! Tongue

I am conflicted - Griffghazi is of great concern to me, and perhaps we need a committee to investigate. At the same time, we have tried committees before and it was not good.

Oh come on, grilled politician tastes so delightful.
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Barnes
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« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2015, 09:51:06 PM »

The idea behind this is really two fold:

1. The fact that a region of the nation came close to secession and that another region is seemingly mired in an endless quagmire merits the study and investigation of the Senate.

2. The ConCon is dominating most discussion at the moment and this would be a productive way for the Senate to spend its time and resources.

I don't think I need to explain why it is necessary to form the committees and I will say from the outset that they are intended to be conducted without bias or favor towards a particular side or issue.

     I like the idea of temporary Senate committees to deal with certain pressing issues. Would the GM be encouraged to take part in the development of these reports?

I would think so.  Surely there is an economic factor in both of these regions that can be detailed and investigated by the committees to understand certain issues.

I am conflicted - Griffghazi is of great concern to me, and perhaps we need a committee to investigate. At the same time, we have tried committees before and it was not good.

I remember the last time we tried committees, and it was indeed a flop.  The difference here though, and this is fundamental, is that these are special select committees established with a specific remit and time table to conduct its business and present a final report.

This isn't a bad idea in principle, but I do have a question for the sponsor: given that the Constitutional Convention has voted to establish a three-Region map, would not the long-range usefulness of these final reports be somewhat limited, or do you see a broader use for these findings beyond addressing the current turmoil in the Northeast and the Pacific?

Part of this goes back to reason no. 2 that I gave above.  This is work that can be conducted by the Senate and the Senate alone -- the Constitutional Convention has no place and no authority to do so.  So while that body deliberates why not do something interesting and informative?

I think that while the regions will obviously change, there will still be a valuable surfeit of information about federal-regional relations and tensions, issues surrounding government inactivity, etc.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2015, 04:47:00 AM »

The main problem with the Pacific has been building sustained competition. One side just always implodes.

I see your point Barnes, the purpose in mind is the exact same one behind the Government Oversight and Reform Committee in 2012. And those committees did work as long as there were active members on them, the problem was we had too many committees and not enough active Senators to populate them all. And the Reform committee was the best of the lot with people like myself, Nix and others present, making it the most active. I would also note that opposition and the desire to abolish them conveniently first materialized once Nappy and I used it to investigate rimjob in July 2013.

I think the complex nature of these matters makes accomplishing the states goals by the deadline to be rather unlikely, especially when competing with the holidays for attention and time.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2015, 06:32:13 AM »

I share Truman's concerns. The idea is good in principle, but when the ConCon will expire, the Pacific will not exist. But again, it's not a bad idea.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2015, 03:20:32 AM »

Barnes, am I correct in my understanding that these committees would include the entire membership of the Senate?
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Barnes
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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2015, 03:36:30 PM »

Barnes, am I correct in my understanding that these committees would include the entire membership of the Senate?

Per my reading of the Senate rules, yes. That was a controbuting factor for why I thought these would be enjoyable -- everyone can be a part of them.
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Talleyrand
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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2015, 03:40:04 PM »

No no no

We do not need any more pointless bureaucracy. Comrade Barnes has the right intentions here, but this will be a disaster.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2015, 04:44:34 PM »

I think that while the regions will obviously change, there will still be a valuable surfeit of information about federal-regional relations and tensions, issues surrounding government inactivity, etc.
This is a good point. Even if the Regions in question are consolidated before the committee finishes its work, the findings could still be used to ensure that similar problems do not plague the new Regional system. I do think that the deadline should be be moved back, though, considering that 12/15 is less than a month away.

I'm still unsure about the need for the Northeast Committee, though. The causes of the independence movement are pretty widely known, as Clyde and others explained themselves quite clearly; furthermore, proposing Constitutional reforms is the business of the Constitutional Convention.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2015, 07:44:40 PM »

I propose the following amendment:

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I am also considering an amendment to strike Section 2, under the assumption that the findings of a Committee on the Northeast would pertain too specifically to a Region that may well cease to exist before long as a result of consolidation.
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Barnes
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« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2015, 10:35:46 PM »
« Edited: November 19, 2015, 11:18:50 PM by Barnes »

I accept Senator Truman's amendment as friendly.

The original time consideration was made under the assumption that this would be passed earlier (never a good assumption to make! Wink) and that Senators would be more receptive of the proposal if it were on a fixed deadline in the near future.

However, if the Senate wishes to extend the lifetime of the project, I have no objection.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2015, 10:38:56 PM »

Wouldn't that apply to the Pacific equally though, Senator Truman?


I am warming up to this. As much as the concern for needless bureacracy is noted from Senator Vitter, I think we need to have in mind the long term problems with the Pacific, its lack of competition and why it has often lagged the other regions behind. It was for a long time locked up by a political machine, longer than any other region. At the same time, it contains the most populous state in real life, as well as three medium sized states.

Understanding this will prove critical to ensuring the same fate does not befall a region under the new constitution.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2015, 10:40:17 PM »

I accept Senator Truman's amendment as friendly.

The original time consideration was made under the assumption that this would be passed earlier (never a good assumption to make! Wink) and that Senators would be ore receptive of the proposal if it were on a fixed deadline in the near future.

However, if the Senate wishes to extend the lifetime of the project, I have no objection.

There have been many times that such dates have had to be pushed backed in Senate legislation because it took too long or in some cases didn't make it to the floor in time to make that ambitious deadline.

Also this is an open ended topic and would require reviewing a lot of material, and data from past years to make an informed analysis, particularly with regards to the Pacific.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2015, 12:39:12 PM »

Wouldn't that apply to the Pacific equally though, Senator Truman?

I think not. The situation in the Northeast arose in response to a specific set of circumstances that are unlikely to be repeated again; furthermore, any proposed solutions to this situation would need to come in the form of changes to the Constitution. As we already have a body (the ConCon) dedicated to discussing Constitutional reforms, I see no reason why the Senate should mirror those discussions. Regional inactivity, by contrast, has been a recurring problem throughout Atlasia's history. While the structural instabilities contributing to this problem are being addressed by the ConCon, it is not necessarily the case that the current debacle is entirely Constitutional in nature. As such, it would be useful for the Senate to divine the causes and appropriate responses to Regional inactivity, so that we have a game plan ready if (God forbid) this problem crops up again in the future.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2015, 04:03:52 PM »

So, has my amendment been adopted?
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2015, 03:56:29 AM »

Yes. Truman's amendment has been adopted.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2015, 06:19:30 PM »

Excellent! In that case, I offer a second amendment:

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As I have said previously, I am not convinced that recent events in the Northeast are anything other than a reaction to a set of problems being addressed by the ConCon. Unlike the inactivity currently plaguing the Pacific, therefore, we are unlikely to garner any larger truths from studying it in depth, and the usefulness of the Committee's findings would therefore cease at the moment the new Constitution is adopted.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2015, 08:38:20 AM »

Senators have 24 hours to object.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2015, 11:55:37 AM »

The amendment has been adopted.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2015, 11:57:21 AM »

I'm keeping my doubts about the necessity of this.
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Türkisblau
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« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2015, 04:36:04 PM »

The shortcomings of the Pacific have been discussed for ages now. Is this really necessary?
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2015, 02:37:24 PM »

     It's something that has come up from time to time in Atlasia. Ideas for dealing with it in the future wouldn't be a bad outcome.
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