Missouri/Yale protests
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Author Topic: Missouri/Yale protests  (Read 5829 times)
Green Line
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2015, 03:34:39 PM »

Remember that saying from childhood? "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me"
Somebody remind these whiners of that!
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TJ in Oregon
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« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2015, 09:05:49 PM »

I can at least understand what the Mizzou protest is about even though I'm not sure what prompted it or what the protesters actually want. The Yale one I am at a complete loss to comprehend. I just don't remember people getting this mad over Halloween costumes when I was an undergrad only four years ago. Yes, plenty of the costumes were offensive. But no one cared that much.
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Taco Truck 🚚
Schadenfreude
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« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2015, 10:59:45 AM »

Remember that saying from childhood? "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me"
Somebody remind these whiners of that!

I totally agree.  One should always just ignore offensive expressions.



And I also think when educating the future leaders of our country in college our expectations should never be above that of a preschool play ground.
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Famous Mortimer
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« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2015, 11:01:40 AM »

If the University of Missouri newspaper published a cartoon like that, that would be a reason for the president to resign.

A cartoon like that just existing though, is not.
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« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2015, 11:03:47 AM »

If the University of Missouri newspaper published a cartoon like that, that would be a reason for the president to resign.

A cartoon like that just existing though, is not.

Did you enjoy your argument with a strawman?
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KingSweden
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« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2015, 11:22:10 AM »

This Yale thing really is baffling to me, too, but then I have no reference point as I am a nerdy suburban white kid who mostly kept to himself while at UW and was completely inactive in terms of campus politics/activism.

Mizzou one can understand (not that nonsense with borderline attacking that photographer, but the protests in general) especially in comparison to the swift response by Oklahoma officials after the SAE incident there in the spring. Oklahoma, the flagship university in a state with a considerably darker racial history than Missouri (look up the Tulsa Race Riot), moved decisively in a much worse situation to show where the university leadership stood on the issue and that everyone from the President to Coach Bob Stoops was opposed. Wolfe seems like he grossly bungled the response. Like Crumpets said, PR is everything in that kind of job. If you can't manage the fallout effectively, you're not cut out for an image-management position.

I will say, though, that a lot of these campus groups are rolling out demands and politics that are essentially impossible for them or anyone in their purview to address. Demanding people "acknowledge their white male privilege" is petty and does little to actually help disadvantaged minorities other than make them feel superior for five seconds. In a quote from that Atlantic article re: Yale, someone saying, "I don't want a debate, I want to discuss my pain" - what pain? You go to an Ivy League school that's produced at least two Presidents I can think of off the top of my head, as well as the incumbent Secretary of State! You have more advantages than 90% of people from your background!
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bagelman
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« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2015, 02:24:37 PM »
« Edited: November 14, 2015, 02:34:17 PM by bagelman »

I will say, though, that a lot of these campus groups are rolling out demands and politics that are essentially impossible for them or anyone in their purview to address. Demanding people "acknowledge their white male privilege" is petty and does little to actually help disadvantaged minorities other than make them feel superior for five seconds. In a quote from that Atlantic article re: Yale, someone saying, "I don't want a debate, I want to discuss my pain" - what pain? You go to an Ivy League school that's produced at least two Presidents I can think of off the top of my head, as well as the incumbent Secretary of State! You have more advantages than 90% of people from your background!

This is why the SJW movement has such a bad reputation. These people feel their racial "disadvantages" (what little it means in affluent New England) is more important than their huge class advantages. If you're a wealthy rich kid lecturing me about how oppressed you are, my first instinct is to be pissed at you.

That being said, I don't disagree with the protesters on everything. If frat boys are going to go out and shout "No means Yes" they deserve plenty of backlash. Frankly I think that we'd be better off if Greek Houses all just died off, they serve no purpose other than to establish networks of cronies preventing more competent people from ascending the social ladder.
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« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2015, 03:01:56 PM »

That being said, I don't disagree with the protesters on everything. If frat boys are going to go out and shout "No means Yes" they deserve plenty of backlash.

That's not unusual.  When it comes to protecting or helping women most people are on board.  But when it comes to blacks a lot of people don't give a sh-t.

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http://www.pewresearch.org/2009/06/02/public-backs-affirmative-action-but-not-minority-preferences/
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KingSweden
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« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2015, 03:04:44 PM »

I will say, though, that a lot of these campus groups are rolling out demands and politics that are essentially impossible for them or anyone in their purview to address. Demanding people "acknowledge their white male privilege" is petty and does little to actually help disadvantaged minorities other than make them feel superior for five seconds. In a quote from that Atlantic article re: Yale, someone saying, "I don't want a debate, I want to discuss my pain" - what pain? You go to an Ivy League school that's produced at least two Presidents I can think of off the top of my head, as well as the incumbent Secretary of State! You have more advantages than 90% of people from your background!

This is why the SJW movement has such a bad reputation. These people feel their racial "disadvantages" (what little it means in affluent New England) is more important than their huge class advantages. If you're a wealthy rich kid lecturing me about how oppressed you are, my first instinct is to be pissed at you.

That being said, I don't disagree with the protesters on everything. If frat boys are going to go out and shout "No means Yes" they deserve plenty of backlash. Frankly I think that we'd be better off if Greek Houses all just died off, they serve no purpose other than to establish networks of cronies preventing more competent people from ascending the social ladder.

From your mouth to God's ears, friend.
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Comrade Funk
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« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2015, 05:19:35 PM »

When historians study the fall of the United States, these insane PC protests will be part of the narrative. I don't know if it will be the beginning, middle, or end of the story, but it will be in there.

You're right. It won't be the unnecessary wars or disastrous economic policies.
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Crumpets
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« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2015, 07:26:41 PM »

I will say, though, that a lot of these campus groups are rolling out demands and politics that are essentially impossible for them or anyone in their purview to address. Demanding people "acknowledge their white male privilege" is petty and does little to actually help disadvantaged minorities other than make them feel superior for five seconds. In a quote from that Atlantic article re: Yale, someone saying, "I don't want a debate, I want to discuss my pain" - what pain? You go to an Ivy League school that's produced at least two Presidents I can think of off the top of my head, as well as the incumbent Secretary of State! You have more advantages than 90% of people from your background!

This is why the SJW movement has such a bad reputation. These people feel their racial "disadvantages" (what little it means in affluent New England) is more important than their huge class advantages. If you're a wealthy rich kid lecturing me about how oppressed you are, my first instinct is to be pissed at you.

That being said, I don't disagree with the protesters on everything. If frat boys are going to go out and shout "No means Yes" they deserve plenty of backlash. Frankly I think that we'd be better off if Greek Houses all just died off, they serve no purpose other than to establish networks of cronies preventing more competent people from ascending the social ladder.

From your mouth to God's ears, friend.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2015, 08:56:37 PM »

These two should not be grouped together. One has a reason and one is just a bunch of over-coddled wimps who wants someone to resign FOR TELLING THEM TO BE THE ADULTS THEY SUPPOSEDLY ARE.
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Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2015, 09:00:43 PM »

These two should not be grouped together. One has a reason and one is just a bunch of over-coddled wimps who wants someone to resign FOR TELLING THEM TO BE THE ADULTS THEY SUPPOSEDLY ARE.

And then there's the "Million Student March" agitating in New York, which is really just yet another Occupy-like group driven by Anonymous and their band of anarchist racists.

This isn't actually a solid movement of any kind.
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dead0man
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« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2015, 08:20:40 AM »

Liberal Activists Upset Paris Terrorist Attacks Are Getting Attention, Not Mizzou Protests
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ingemann
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« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2015, 10:50:37 AM »


Wow, could this guy say anything which made him look more like a priviliged spoiled kid. "How dare people look at those dead people, when we're the real victims".
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« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2015, 11:57:31 AM »


"Liberal activists"? More like "random people on Twitter".
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« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2015, 04:38:54 PM »

Yes.. being angry, nasty, callous, and indignant in the face of a tragedy will definitely garner sympathy... from nobody.

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bagelman
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« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2015, 07:14:55 PM »


Brat. If that was my kid, I'd give him a good telling.
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Bigby
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« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2015, 07:21:52 PM »


Wow, could this guy say anything which made him look more like a priviliged spoiled kid. "How dare people look at those dead people, when we're the real victims".

You could say...

He needs to check his privilege?
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Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas
Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2015, 11:52:21 PM »

So apparently a black lives matter display was vandalized at Dartmouth, and this was what followed.

http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=6990
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RI
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« Reply #45 on: November 16, 2015, 12:27:18 AM »

One of these days this kind of stuff is going to massively backfire on these people.
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Lyin' Steve
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« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2015, 03:26:49 AM »

Nobody will be surprised to hear my opinion, but I'll throw it out there anyway.

These protests are absurd and their defenders are using ridiculously dishonest tactics.  Nobody has yet given me any credibly examples of "institutional" or "systematic" racism, and in fact any incidents of racism at all are isolated incidents by people who are either very obvious trolls (frat boys looking for a reaction, anonymous trolls on YikYak) or one-off fools.  The protestors and their defenders talk about how there's tons of racism under the surface that hasn't gotten media attention, and this gets repeated in columns by pundits trying to be even-handed as though it's fact, but nobody has given a single example.  So David Brooks or whoever will go and write "to be fair, these students have legitimate grievances, and incidents of racism such as those that occur frequently at Mizzou are unacceptable", but there's absolutely no reason to believe that consistent racism exists in any greater capacity than violence, theft, or any other number of one-off crimes that occur in modern society.  Liberal commentators have tried to make it all about their own agenda by claiming that the Mizzou protests are the end result of a litany of injustices by the conservative president of Mizzou, including fighting Planned Parenthood and Obamacare.  There's no reason to believe this is the case, it's just a lame try to tie democratic talking points into the protests.

I'm sick of the wishy-washy even-handedness by moderates about this.  These protests are ridiculous and should be universally condemned by anyone who's not a left-wing hack.  The claimed grievances are absurd.  At Mizzou and Yale, we've seen the same two or three minor, isolated racial incidents repeated ad nauseum, which begs the question of, if racism is so prevalent at these schools, why can't any incidents beyond these few minor ones be found?  At other schools (the protests have spread like a virus to at least a dozen schools now) the grievances are even more trivial.  For instance, all it took for the Ithaca College protestors to demand the head of their president was some girl who said that in a study group, she said she had "savage ambition" and then people made fun of her by calling her a "savage", which just sounds like a group of freshmen ribbing her to try to bring her and her savage ambition down to earth.

Their ubiquitous lists of demands exist in a completely different universe from that of wishy-washy even-handed moderates.  In fact, these lists of demands exist in a world apart from conservatives, moderates, and liberals.  Conservatives think the students want to be treated like babies and to be given safe spaces and have free speech banned.  Moderates think the students want to defeat racism and to feel safe.  Liberals think the students want whatever the liberal writing the column wants.  In fact, what the students are almost uniformly demanding is a set of symbolic gestures designed to make them feel powerful, to humiliate the university and the other students, and to destroy the careers of their presidents and various targets who, across the board, were made into targets for entirely trivial and innocent reasons, such as Erika Christakis' email or that Mizzou professor who wouldn't cancel his exam for the protestors.  In addition, they want power and recognition, as virtually all college protestors are demanding that tremendous resources be expended to create various multicultural centers and multicultural studies departments, mandatory racial education courses overseen by blacks, and quotas of black students and faculty.  There's nothing in the students' experiences that justifies these demands, of course.  They're just default templates of demands for modern-day social justice activists.

So why is this happening?  Because a minority of students exist in a bubble of far-left racial and gender politics that exists primarily on the internet, although the mainstream media and the Democratic party have recklessly reinforced and encouraged its existence to further their political agenda.  This has had the effect of radicalizing some of the students, who honestly break down in tears over microaggressions and buy into this neo-black-panther crap, but for the most part the students involved in this want attention, they want to feel important, they want to impress their left-wing friends, they want to be seen as "on the right side of history", and they're bullied into it by their social circles.  There's a mentality of, if you're not joining the protests, you must not agree with us.  Once these kids are completely surrounded by like-minded individuals and caught up in the zeal of flowery language and believing they're the new coming of the civil rights movement, they go around impersonating the people they've seen on TV and read about in their history books, relishing the power of bullying others on campus and shouting at the top of their lungs and acting impulsive and without consequences, pushing any scruples to the backs of their minds as they let themselves get caught up the energy of an anonymous mob.

So what's wrong with our generation, what's wrong with the college kids today, where are all these lunatics coming from?  Well, most of them grew up on social media and have their primary social circles on the internet, so they've been completely saturated with this way of thinking most of their life.  Once they get out in the real world and reality hits them like a load of bricks they'll shape up just like every generation inevitably has.  Some of the students are bullies and assholes who are enjoying the chance to finally scream and shout and push people around and get in white girls' faces and act on their impulses.  And at the core is a group of self-serving attention-seekers, like the Mizzou student president, and dangerously delusional true believers, like that kid who went on a hunger strike or the journalism professor who threatened a student reporter.  It only takes a couple drops of arsenic to poison the whole well, though.  With the attention-seekers and zealots taking on leadership roles and defining the movement's direction and strategy, and the bullies defining its culture and tactics, most of the kids who are there because they feel like they should be or because they want to be a part of the movement or because of peer pressure just go with the flow, and thus we get hundreds of students standing out in the cold November air for hours on Monday to form a ring around a tent city and prevent reporters from getting in.

Also, for the record, there's absolutely nothing wrong with naming a college after John C. Calhoun; JFK led a Senate committee to determine the greatest Senators of all time and John C. Calhoun was in the top 5.
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Nathan
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« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2015, 03:47:20 AM »

Calhoun was great in the sense of being consequential--the only remotely objective way 'greatness' is ever defined in these things, which are all meaningless pap anyway--but it's impossible for any morally serious person to argue that what he used his greatness in the service of wasn't reprehensible.
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Lyin' Steve
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« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2015, 04:10:25 AM »

Calhoun was great in the sense of being consequential--the only remotely objective way 'greatness' is ever defined in these things, which are all meaningless pap anyway--but it's impossible for any morally serious person to argue that what he used his greatness in the service of wasn't reprehensible.

I agree with this.  "Absolutely nothing wrong" was probably an exaggeration, but I think the naming is quite justified, given that Calhoun is one of Yale's most famous alumni and spent 25 years as one of the most powerful and impactful politicians in the country prior to his decision to fight for slavery, as disgusting as his views in that regard were.  We can't erase history, Calhoun is a big dog.
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SUSAN CRUSHBONE
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« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2015, 05:32:53 AM »

Remember that saying from childhood? "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me"
Somebody remind these whiners of that!

well, actually…
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