Paris Attacks

[SillyAmerican]

Also, don't these attacks bolster the argument of those who say that taking in Syrian refugees in the numbers being spoken of by the President represents a serious threat to American security?

The three identified suspects are:
Bilal Hafdi, a Belgian-born individual who previously fought in Syria with ISIL.
Ahmed Almuhamed, a 25-year-old who entered France posing as a Syrian refugee.
Omar Ismaël Mostefai, a 29-year-old from the Paris suburb of Courcouronnes
Ibrahim and Salah Abdeslam, three Belgian-born French brothers
Samy Amimour: Born in Paris in 1987, Samy was already known to authorities because of a previous terrorism case
We must stop those dirty Belgian immigrants 👅

Sure, we don't have to worry much about Belgian immigrants here in the U.S., but given the porous nature of our southern border, there may in fact be legitimate concerns about terrorists entering in that way. However, the real issue is that if we plan on welcoming 10,000 Syrian refugees to our shores, how many of them will share the views of another "refugee", Ahmed Almuhamed? He and others like him represent the threat I'm most concerned about, and it only takes a handful of them.

They are feeling for their lives? Why would they support the folks that want to kill them?  Its like saying no we can't take in any Jews during the Holocaust, which we unfortunately didn't do enough of, because they might be Nazis.

No, the question is can we perform effective screening to actually distinguish those fleeing for their lives from those who wish to do us harm? Had some Jews been willing to strap on suicide vests to kill a bunch of innocent people, the situation and question would have been exactly the same. Again, the central issue is being able to distinguish a refugee from a murderer; saying that people don't need to worry about such things is just a recipe for disaster.

[Gass3268]

Also, don't these attacks bolster the argument of those who say that taking in Syrian refugees in the numbers being spoken of by the President represents a serious threat to American security?

The three identified suspects are:
Bilal Hafdi, a Belgian-born individual who previously fought in Syria with ISIL.
Ahmed Almuhamed, a 25-year-old who entered France posing as a Syrian refugee.
Omar Ismaël Mostefai, a 29-year-old from the Paris suburb of Courcouronnes
Ibrahim and Salah Abdeslam, three Belgian-born French brothers
Samy Amimour: Born in Paris in 1987, Samy was already known to authorities because of a previous terrorism case
We must stop those dirty Belgian immigrants 👅

Sure, we don't have to worry much about Belgian immigrants here in the U.S., but given the porous nature of our southern border, there may in fact be legitimate concerns about terrorists entering in that way. However, the real issue is that if we plan on welcoming 10,000 Syrian refugees to our shores, how many of them will share the views of another "refugee", Ahmed Almuhamed? He and others like him represent the threat I'm most concerned about, and it only takes a handful of them.

They are feeling for their lives? Why would they support the folks that want to kill them?  Its like saying no we can't take in any Jews during the Holocaust, which we unfortunately didn't do enough of, because they might be Nazis.

No, the question is can we perform effective screening to actually distinguish those fleeing for their lives from those who wish to do us harm? Had some Jews been willing to strap on suicide vests to kill a bunch of innocent people, the situation and question would have been exactly the same. Again, the central issue is being able to distinguish a refugee from a murderer; saying that people don't need to worry about such things is just a recipe for disaster.

You do know that the current review process for refugees takes between 12-14 months and involves like 5 different background checks (Homeland Security, FBI, etc.). Its arguably the most thorough review processes for refugees in the world. It's not like folks are going to show up tomorrow and get processed by Thanksgiving. 

[DINGO Joe]

Also, don't these attacks bolster the argument of those who say that taking in Syrian refugees in the numbers being spoken of by the President represents a serious threat to American security?

The three identified suspects are:
Bilal Hafdi, a Belgian-born individual who previously fought in Syria with ISIL.
Ahmed Almuhamed, a 25-year-old who entered France posing as a Syrian refugee.
Omar Ismaël Mostefai, a 29-year-old from the Paris suburb of Courcouronnes
Ibrahim and Salah Abdeslam, three Belgian-born French brothers
Samy Amimour: Born in Paris in 1987, Samy was already known to authorities because of a previous terrorism case
We must stop those dirty Belgian immigrants 👅

Sure, we don't have to worry much about Belgian immigrants here in the U.S., but given the porous nature of our southern border, there may in fact be legitimate concerns about terrorists entering in that way. However, the real issue is that if we plan on welcoming 10,000 Syrian refugees to our shores, how many of them will share the views of another "refugee", Ahmed Almuhamed? He and others like him represent the threat I'm most concerned about, and it only takes a handful of them.

If six of the seven were either born in Europe and had been there from time, shouldn't you be more scared of all the Muslims living in California now than any Syrian refugees?

[rob in cal]

    In the US a very big chunk of Moslems are in higher status income and social groups, unlike in Europe where they often (usually?) are in the lowest classes of society. 

[SillyAmerican]

No, the question is can we perform effective screening to actually distinguish those fleeing for their lives from those who wish to do us harm? Had some Jews been willing to strap on suicide vests to kill a bunch of innocent people, the situation and question would have been exactly the same. Again, the central issue is being able to distinguish a refugee from a murderer; saying that people don't need to worry about such things is just a recipe for disaster.

You do know that the current review process for refugees takes between 12-14 months and involves like 5 different background checks (Homeland Security, FBI, etc.). Its arguably the most thorough review processes for refugees in the world. It's not like folks are going to show up tomorrow and get processed by Thanksgiving.  

You do know that FBI director James Comey has said that the federal government does not have the ability to conduct thorough background checks on all of the 10,000 Syrian refugees that the Obama administration says will be allowed to come to the U.S.

“We can only query against that which we have collected. And so if someone has never made a ripple in the pond in Syria in a way that would get their identity or their interest reflected in our database, we can query our database until the cows come home, but there will be nothing show up because we have no record of them.”

You do know that Chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee Michael McCaul has warned that the U.S. does not have the systems in place through Homeland Security or the FBI to properly vet refugees coming from the terrorism hotspots of Syria and Iraq.

“The President wants to surge thousands of Syrian refugees into the United States, in spite of consistent intelligence community and federal law enforcement warnings that we do not have the intelligence needed to vet individuals from the conflict zone. We also know that ISIS wants to use refugee routes as cover to sneak operatives into the West. I implore the President to consult with Congress before taking any drastic action and to level with the American people about the very real security challenges we face. It is heart-wrenching to watch innocent Syrians fleeing the violence in their country, and we can do more to help. But the best way to solve this crisis is at the source. The President needs to develop a real strategy for victory to defeat ISIS and remove Assad from power, which is the root cause of the problem. This is the culmination of a failed foreign policy to deal with the threats and now we have a humanitarian crisis on our hands."

What I am simply suggesting is that we proceed with caution, especially given the little we know about what transpired leading up to the attacks in Paris. Oh, and my concern seems to be shared by some in the country, as 15 states have already said they will NOT be accepting Syrian refugees, and I believe that number will only grow.

[Hnv1]

military wise: were the attacks by French bombers conducted through the Charles De Gaulle? what is ORBAT of French forces in the ME?

[Gass3268]

No, the question is can we perform effective screening to actually distinguish those fleeing for their lives from those who wish to do us harm? Had some Jews been willing to strap on suicide vests to kill a bunch of innocent people, the situation and question would have been exactly the same. Again, the central issue is being able to distinguish a refugee from a murderer; saying that people don't need to worry about such things is just a recipe for disaster.

You do know that the current review process for refugees takes between 12-14 months and involves like 5 different background checks (Homeland Security, FBI, etc.). Its arguably the most thorough review processes for refugees in the world. It's not like folks are going to show up tomorrow and get processed by Thanksgiving.  

You do know that FBI director James Comey has said that the federal government does not have the ability to conduct thorough background checks on all of the 10,000 Syrian refugees that the Obama administration says will be allowed to come to the U.S.

“We can only query against that which we have collected. And so if someone has never made a ripple in the pond in Syria in a way that would get their identity or their interest reflected in our database, we can query our database until the cows come home, but there will be nothing show up because we have no record of them.”

You do know that Chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee Michael McCaul has warned that the U.S. does not have the systems in place through Homeland Security or the FBI to properly vet refugees coming from the terrorism hotspots of Syria and Iraq.

“The President wants to surge thousands of Syrian refugees into the United States, in spite of consistent intelligence community and federal law enforcement warnings that we do not have the intelligence needed to vet individuals from the conflict zone. We also know that ISIS wants to use refugee routes as cover to sneak operatives into the West. I implore the President to consult with Congress before taking any drastic action and to level with the American people about the very real security challenges we face. It is heart-wrenching to watch innocent Syrians fleeing the violence in their country, and we can do more to help. But the best way to solve this crisis is at the source. The President needs to develop a real strategy for victory to defeat ISIS and remove Assad from power, which is the root cause of the problem. This is the culmination of a failed foreign policy to deal with the threats and now we have a humanitarian crisis on our hands."

What I am simply suggesting is that we proceed with caution, especially given the little we know about what transpired leading up to the attacks in Paris. Oh, and my concern seems to be shared by some in the country, as 15 states have already said they will NOT be accepting Syrian refugees, and I believe that number will only grow.

Luckily what the states think doesn't matter as federal law/Supreme Court precedent state that the President has full authority over refugee policy.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

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[SillyAmerican]

Luckily what the states think doesn't matter as federal law/Supreme Court precedent state that the President has full authority over refugee policy.

True enough. Still, it will be very interesting if a majority of states go on record as being against this policy, and the president (acting more like a king every day) decides to simply thumb his nose at the American people and go about doing what he feels is best.

[Famous Mortimer]

Luckily what the states think doesn't matter as federal law/Supreme Court precedent state that the President has full authority over refugee policy.

True enough. Still, it will be very interesting if a majority of states go on record as being against this policy, and the president (acting more like a king every day) decides to simply thumb his nose at the American people and go about doing what he feels is best.

I don't know if I agree with Obama's decision but that's a nature of leadership. That's why we live in a representative democracy, not a direct democracy.

[Yank2133]

Call me a fanatic, but as an American I feel weak when France and Russia are blowing up the terrorists better than America.

Fortunately, life is not a video game, so we won't lose if we don't get the high score in blowing up terrorists.

Besides, the USA has the high score anyway.  It's not even close.

Yeah, blowing up terrorists is something we have been pretty good at the last six years.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Then, yeah, it's mostly been our good old maghrebi guys, 'indeed'...

Just read an article on the one of which the pic has been posted here, well, I haven't seen him on my island, apparently he called some friends in Belgium to pick him back at 2 am in Paris (Saturday 14th), friends picked him at 5 am, they been controled next to Belgian border at 9 am the same day, and since then, no more news.

About 'Kalachs' and Belgium.

Well, first, maybe the point is that it's 'not really Belgium', it's...Molenbeek.

People here might already know about that, or your media told you, but in case it didn't, here is. This Molenbeek name was familiar to me when I heard it first lately, but then the media reminded me why, enjoy:

Used by some GIA guys in 1995 to prepare the first big wave of Islamist attacks in France (summer 1995, mainly nasty bombs in Parisian subway).

Used by the Al Qaeda guys who went killing Commandant Massud in Afghanistan before 9/11.

Used by some of the guys that bombed Madrid trains in 2004.

Used by the guy that made the Jews killing in Bruxelles in 2014.

Used by Amedy Coulibaly to precisely, well, buy his kalachnikovs, the guy who killed a policewoman and people in a Jewish supermarket in Paris in January 2015.

Used by some of the terrorists of the dismantled cell of Verviers (in Belgium, other little 'terrorist homeland), Belgian forces made an harsh assault on them in early 2015, right after Charlie.

Used by the guy that tried to attack Thalys later in 2015.

And finally, the top of the top...this.

Most of the time it's a place where those guys come to live in, well, amongst other things I guess...

And, last but not least, you can add the fact that this place is the native city of this cute one:

Abdelhamid Abaaoud
(isn't that IS f**king appealing?)

27 years old, would be the operational brain of most of the terror attacks I mentionned earlier, the '2010s Molenbeek gift' then. Not a leader of IS but a very important operational guy for those operations for them apparently.

Ah, and, today, we had an other little gift, it's an other good old French, a Toulousain, Fabien Clain, whom announced us what we already knew, the reponsibility of the 'state' in which he lives in what happened here, but through living voice, that guy would be a big enough 'communication guy in IS if I underrstood correctly. According to David Thomson, a very good journalist of RFI who knows very well the IS for having been several times embeded apparently, says France would have about 10 guys in the very big IS fishes, and stats say that it would be the country that sends the most Jihadists outthere, the country that would send the most proportionally to its population would be, again, Belgium.

Molenbeek would be the 'most Muslim place', the 'most unemployed place', and also the 'most young place'...of Belgium. But precise figures about each of those aspects differ according to articles, at 'worst' you could carricaturally say that each of those aspects would be like 50% of the population of that 96.000 habitants city close to Bruxelles (lol, I read on Le Figaro it has 22 mosqs and 4 times less churches ^^). So it's a kind of 'particular place of Belgium'.

Moreover 'Belgium' would for a long enough time be like a kind of best place in Europe for all kinds of traffics, amongst which arms and drugs rank high enough.

Now from which country would the 'kalachs' originally come from, if you had to make a map I guess painting former Yugoslavia and USSR would make a good part of the job, and maybe such kinds of weapons are those whom benefited the most of freedom that knew Lybia recently too.

The average price for a kalachnikov in France would like 250€, and seems to be quite easy to get.

And, hmm, let's see what those good old 'toys' can do...

Shelter used by police to give assault on Bataclan (and it's a modern model...)

Oh and about the assault itself, some policemen had been announced dead at one point, yeah, it was a mixed info, none dead on duty, one as civilian, and one injured during assault.

That being said, the guys used flats arround Paris to finalize and launch their 'thing'.

The guy who is fleeing also is the guy who paid for most of the things apparently, rent cars and 2 out of the 3 flats at least, he might still have a bit of money then.

The logical following to give a 'full success' to his mission, could be, either making his final personal mission too, or, bigger challenge, trying to reach back Syria and then post a cute video like 'Hey guys!! You fine?? F**ked all of you!! See yah!!', or something I guess...

Amedy Coulibaly wife fled to Syria right before attacks of his proud husband, thats their worldwide shelter.

A very good analyst of modern Jihadism in France, Wassim Nasr, working for France24, but interviewed by all channels that can catch him, said something that could be relevant, the guy could have fled in order to post us a beautiful video of all their exploits, and then to make a still 'bigger appeal' to, well, some people...

Perrsonally I watched a few post-attacks vids displayed on TV, well, it hurts the stomach, especially when the war scenes that uses to be in Bagdad, is well, in an environment that is quite familiar to you...

And to answer to the Lebanon stuff, well, yeah, might be one of the reasons why people didn't post about that, it's just that when you hear about that you think 'Iraq/Syria/Lebanon/Afghanistan/etc, ah well, business as usual...'.

And well, for France it's not really like 'business as usual'.

This plus the '1st world country touched by shanty country stuffs effect' I guess.

This, plus, well, most of us are bloody Westerners, aren't we? Then bloody Westerners overall speak about what touches bloody Westerners, and so do other human beings in the world I guess...

Few little things would still be bothering though, that last 3rd car that has been found today in Paris 18th, apparently been rent by the searched guy too, who would have used it then? Especially when you know that IS spoke about an attack in Paris 18th in its communicate, which didn't happen.

Eventually this car, or one of the 2 other ones, been used by the Stade de France team and then they might have been there through subway or something, but then there would have been CCTV videos of them I guess, and we would know it already.

military wise: were the attacks by French bombers conducted through the Charles De Gaulle? what is ORBAT of French forces in the ME?

Nah, it leaves for there on Thursday. Strikes been led by the classical couple for French air forces there, Jordan and EAU.

And it's not only Charles de Gaulle going outthere, you got a whole little fleet, enjoy the names:

La Motte Piquet (anti-submarine defense)
Chevalier Paul (anti-aerian defense)
Marne (refueling and commandment)

And a Belgian frigate, the Leopold 1er, and some British ships would join too.

Latter some more French aeronaval forces are planed to go there too.



Ah and, 'welcome in an emergency state'...

More than 200 wild searches (no judiciary procedure necessary required) been done within a couple of days.

More than 100 people been on house arrest.

Several war weapons been found (notably a rocket launcher in Lyon).

Might be necessary, but well, it gives a kind of 'weird feeling'...

Oh and, other than that, they plan to change the Constitution in order to 'adapt it to what's required', Sarkozy seriously spoke about interning (like in 'anti-Jihad' centers or something) those monitored for radical Islamism, and other glorious things that my mind apparently prefer to forget right now.

Everything is normal then, we are in France, in 2015...

And, lol, EU allowing France to make more debts for its new dewly decided security measures, Junker said it a while ago 'The European army is the French one'. Maybe it would, very eventually, be saner, more efficent and less costy for...everybody in Europe...to have a 'why not'...European army...?

Oh and, last news, a 9th guy is searched.

(you read everything?? kudos!! wait, some more coming ^^)

[SillyAmerican]

I don't know if I agree with Obama's decision but that's a nature of leadership. That's why we live in a representative democracy, not a direct democracy.

Yes, but I would hope that in a representative democracy such as ours, the president would not feel justified in operating in a vacuum.

For the record, as of this date, 23 state governors have stated that they either do not want or will actively work to try to prohibit Syrian refugees from settling in their state:

Alabama	Illinois	Massachusetts	Oklahoma
Arizona	Indiana	Mississippi	South Carolina
Arkansas	Iowa	Nebraska	Tennessee
Florida	Kansas	New Hampshire	Texas
Georgia	Louisiana	North Carolina	Wisconsin
Idaho	Maine	Ohio

_{Source: USA Today}

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Why don't you discuss that issue in a relevant thread instead of this one?

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Just wanted to add, thanks for those:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3e6xzv_attentats-stephen-colbert-rend-un-bel-hommage-aux-francais_tv

(I f**king loved the Ratatouille part )

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3e3uo2_john-oliver-sur-hbo-daech-vous-etes-des-putains-de-trous-du-cul_tv

Great.

The f**king part is that when he shows stuffs about French culture, he precisely shows old stuffs that would show that this society is in deep need of renewal, which might explains a part of our problems too, but whatever, let's stay on a smile.

Oh and I would also kinda thank all those people around the world that sang La Marseillaise, was kinda crazy to see that, along with the Bleu-Blanc-Rouge displaying, that song really seems to be a 'particular anthem' due to a 'particular place in History' (well, a French would ought to think so at least ), but something like that never happened before I guess, not even for the US with 9/11 maybe.

While I wouldn't necessarily feel comfortable in a French crowd singing it, especially during such kinds of events (at least I wasn't for Charlie) where it makes me really feel the...martial...tone of that song, far more than the 'freedom tone', and which is something that has been totally confirmed to me thanks to The Mirror this morning, that published this...

...for English supporters to sing at Wembley during the France-England match tonight.

It's amazing how almost words for words it could fit to something like:

'Let's go guys, we the proud free and strong French can screw thoselittle nasty annoying Arabs!'

It's 'scarily amusing'.

But whatever, for now:

MATCH!

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Lesson #1 - Avoid clicking "show".

[Angel of Death]

A friendly football match between Germany and the Netherlands was cancelled due to a terror threat.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

It's a shame that France's secularism caused this verse of the original La Marseillaise to not make it into the official anthem.  It seems appropriate to the moment.

Dieu de clémence et de justice Vois nos tyrans, juge nos coeurs Que ta bonté nous soit propice Défends-nous de ces oppresseurs Défends-nous de ces oppresseurs Tu règnes au ciel et sur terre Et devant Toi, tout doit fléchir De ton bras, viens nous soutenir Toi, grand Dieu, maître du tonnerre. Aux armes, citoyens, Formez vos bataillons, Marchons, marchons ! Qu'un sang impur Abreuve nos sillons !

God of mercy and justice See our tyrants, judge our hearts Thy goodness be with us Defend us from these oppressors Defend us from these oppressors You reign in heaven and on earth And before You all must bend In your arms, come support us You Great God, Lord of the thunder. To arms, citizens, Form your battalions, March on, march on! Let an impure blood Water our furrows!

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Suspects might be cornered in Paris, a shootout is underway.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Six explosions have gone off in the Paris suburb where the suspects are surrounded by the police. They just happened in the background of the CNN reports. I think the suspects might have blown themselves up, because several soldiers just rushed forward into the scene.

[Ebsy]

3 dead, 3 wounded, things seem to be calming down in St.-Denis. Possibly 3 arrested though there are a lot of conflicted reports.

[Ebsy]

Also a woman appears to have detonated a suicide vest.

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

I don't know if I agree with Obama's decision but that's a nature of leadership. That's why we live in a representative democracy, not a direct democracy.

Yes, but I would hope that in a representative democracy such as ours, the president would not feel justified in operating in a vacuum.

For the record, as of this date, 23 state governors have stated that they either do not want or will actively work to try to prohibit Syrian refugees from settling in their state:

Alabama	Illinois	Massachusetts	Oklahoma
Arizona	Indiana	Mississippi	South Carolina
Arkansas	Iowa	Nebraska	Tennessee
Florida	Kansas	New Hampshire	Texas
Georgia	Louisiana	North Carolina	Wisconsin
Idaho	Maine	Ohio

_{Source: USA Today}

Florida already has some Syrian refugees I have met and spoken to them the Syrian community is taking care of them as well as the Central Florida Arab American community and the various Arab churches and mosques in the area.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Those bloody guys screwed the end of my night, this is what you get when you sleep with radio.

Confirmed informations:

2 killed.

1 got by a sniper, 1 is the bomb belt woman that tried to retaliate to this.

'Other not yet confirmed informations':

The assault would be finished but operation still going on, security checking.

A 3rd guy would have been killed in the flat.

2 policemen injured.

An other flat would have been inspected 500m from the main one, 3 people arrested without problem.

2 other person would have been arrested in the street, 1 would be the guy to whom they rented the flat.

Apparently, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the guy about which I posted a fancy pic yesterday could be outthere. The guy loved to publicly make fun of authorities about the fact he can travel between Syria and Europe whenever he wanted. He might find it less funny, or even more, if so.

Assault began at 4h30 am, last big blasts been heard at 7h30 am (this is 'what' awoke me).

Took place in the center of Saint-Denis, northern Parisian suburb, 800m from Stade de France.

[Tender Branson]

Good.

Only a terrorist with a bullet in the head or blown up in their apartment is a good terrorist.

Let's hope France keeps cracking down hard on these assholes and kills them all. It's the only way they'll get it.