Should we allow more Jewish Germans to seek refuge?

[ag]

I notice, I have been reported again: for "personal attack". I guess, attacking my people, as has just been done elsewhere in this thread, is no offense. The dead cannot respond. But my duty is to defend their memory against those, who would betray it.

[DavidB.]

A certain poster here, who claims to be Jewish, would happily leave those people to the Nazis: they were not real Jews to him, as they did not share his idea of what Jewishness means.

You could, of course, try to act as if this low blow was not directed at me, but we both know it was. This is unwarranted, and, for a moderator, inappropriate. Moreover, you know it is not true. In fact, the exact reason for you to post this, is that you know I do not like this kind of accusations. In sum, your post is bordering on defamation and I would like you to leave out the personal attack, and if you will not do so, I hope the moderator of this board will.

If you do not like my viewpoint on the current migrant crisis, which, in my opinion, does not have much to do with Jews' past (but that is entirely debatable and could be subject of a good discussion), you are by all means invited to reply to my posts, both here and on the IGD board. But in a serious manner please, without the implicit, nonsensical accusations, the personal attacks, and the bizarre detours. Given our history, though, I am pessimistic, which is why I have recently mostly ignored your contributions to this forum. If you are not interested in engaging in serious discussions with me, which is entirely okay with me, I would like that attitude to be reciprocal.

[ag]

A certain poster here, who claims to be Jewish, would happily leave those people to the Nazis: they were not real Jews to him, as they did not share his idea of what Jewishness means.

You could, of course, try to act as if this low blow was not directed at me,

Why would I act like that? I, most definitely, had your posts in mind.

I do firmly believe that your posts in this thread are a direct attack on the memory of Jewish refugees, who fled Europe before WWII (unless, that is, you are willing to claim that you are entirely ignorant of the pre-WWII Jewish history). I do not take such attacks lightly. In fact, I find them - yes, I will use this word - blasphemous.

This has nothing to do with you personally (I do not know you personally), but with the despicable views you consistently expound. I guess, you do not differentiate between yourself and your views: but I am not responsible for that. I have been forced to abandon the International Discussion board, because I simply feel sick every time I read what you and your kind post (not to mention that your policy of complaining about every post of mine to the moderators makes my participation impossible). But I simply cannot let you defile the graves of the Jewish victims with impunity here.

I will not tolerate disrespect to the memory of the victims of the Nazis, no matter whether the source of this disrespect comes from somebody who claims to be Jewish or not. In fact, when coming from somebody who claims a connection to my heritage, such behaviour is triply offensive and infinitely unforgivable.

[DavidB.]

Why would I act like that? I, most definitely, had your posts in mind.

I do firmly believe that your posts in this thread are a direct attack on the memory of Jewish refugees, who fled Europe before WWII (unless, that is, you are willing to claim that you are entirely ignorant of the pre-WWII Jewish history). I do not take such attacks lightly. In fact, I find them - yes, I will use this word - blasphemous.

This has nothing to do with you personally (I do not know you personally), but with the despicable views you consistently expound. I guess, you do not differentiate between yourself and your views: but I am not responsible for that. I have been forced to abandon the International Discussion board, because I simply feel sick every time I read what you and your kind post (not to mention that your policy of complaining about every post of mine to the moderators makes my participation impossible). But I simply cannot let you defile the graves of the Jewish victims with impunity here.

I will not tolerate disrespect to the memory of the victims of the Nazis, no matter whether the source of this disrespect comes from somebody who claims to be Jewish or not.

Dude, I didn't exactly say much about Jewish refugees in this thread (my family were literally refugees themselves), let alone anything that is disrespectful. Your accusations are absurd and the idea that I am desecrating the memory of Jewish Shoa victims or Jewish refugees is even more absurd, and I hope Ernest will take down the specific libellous post in which you accuse me of being okay with nazis deporting Jews with whom I do not agree, for this has no place here. I am not responsible for your wild imagination or your bizarre interpretations of my posts. Stop stalking me on this forum and talking sh*t about me.

[ag]

I should clarify something: I am no left-winger, still less a communist. I am a free-market neoliberal economist, pretty consistently voting for the right in my own country. I am no admirer of comrade Gershuni, nor of his Bundist rivals - I have been an avowed anti-communist long before many of those present here were born. Nor, of course, I am a traditionalist shtetl Jew - that life has been abandoned by my family generations ago. I am an atheist, with no personal need for God, outside of tradition or community. I am cosmopolitan, internationally educated, fluent in English, native in Russian, passable in Spanish: an inoffensive and recognisable college prof. Chances are, few "whites" would be scared by me. But I will take the fifth here: commandment, that is. To honour my ancestors I do not need to remake them in my own image. There have been all kinds among them: traditional and modernising, entrepreneurial and socialist, religious and secular; probably even Zionist Few, though, would be sufficiently "white" and assimilated to be non-controversially accepted as refugees or migrants anywhere.  They lived hard and dangerous lives: their lives. I am privileged, by virtue of transformation that has happened during the previous two or three generations, and I am grateful to fate for this privilege. But I will not forget those who came before me, nor disrespect them, nor pretend they were what they were not. They are my people, and I will not tolerate anybody speaking ill of them.

[ag]

Why would I act like that? I, most definitely, had your posts in mind.

I do firmly believe that your posts in this thread are a direct attack on the memory of Jewish refugees, who fled Europe before WWII (unless, that is, you are willing to claim that you are entirely ignorant of the pre-WWII Jewish history). I do not take such attacks lightly. In fact, I find them - yes, I will use this word - blasphemous.

This has nothing to do with you personally (I do not know you personally), but with the despicable views you consistently expound. I guess, you do not differentiate between yourself and your views: but I am not responsible for that. I have been forced to abandon the International Discussion board, because I simply feel sick every time I read what you and your kind post (not to mention that your policy of complaining about every post of mine to the moderators makes my participation impossible). But I simply cannot let you defile the graves of the Jewish victims with impunity here.

I will not tolerate disrespect to the memory of the victims of the Nazis, no matter whether the source of this disrespect comes from somebody who claims to be Jewish or not.

Dude, I didn't exactly say much about Jewish refugees in this thread (my family were literally refugees themselves), let alone anything that is disrespectful. Your accusations are absurd and the idea that I am desecrating the memory of Jewish Shoa victims or Jewish refugees is even more absurd, and I hope Ernest will take down the specific libellous post in which you accuse me of being okay with nazis deporting Jews with whom I do not agree, for this has no place here. I am not responsible for your wild imagination or your bizarre interpretations of my posts. Stop stalking me on this forum and talking sh*t about me.

You have mentally remade the Jews of the past in your own image. You, of course, would not abandon those idealised Jews of your imagination. But you have explicitly disowned the real Jews in this very thread. There is no other interpretation for your words here.

[DavidB.]

You have mentally remade the Jews of the past in your own image. You, of course, would not abandon those idealised Jews of your imagination. But you have explicitly disowned the real Jews in this very thread.

This is all your interpretation; you clearly don't understand how I think (and I know better how I think than you). That's fine. But keep your interpretation yours. Don't post nonsense about me and don't stalk me. Shouldn't be too hard.

[ag]

You have mentally remade the Jews of the past in your own image. You, of course, would not abandon those idealised Jews of your imagination. But you have explicitly disowned the real Jews in this very thread.

This is all your interpretation; you clearly don't understand how I think (and I know better how I think than you). That's fine. But keep your interpretation yours. Don't post nonsense about me and don't stalk me. Shouldn't be too hard.

I do not stalk you. I was in this thread before you came here. I have carefully avoided joining in conversations in which you participate for months now. You, it seems, will not be satisfied till I completely abandon these forums. I may still do this: the Nazi waive here is getting too high for me. But while I am still here, do not expect me to take quietly blasphemous offense against my people.

If you think differently, then do not say things that can only be interpreted this way.

[DavidB.]

I do not stalk you. I was in this thread before you came here. I have carefully avoided joining in conversations in which you participate for months now. You, it seems, will not be satisfied till I completely abandon these forums. I may still do this: the Nazi waive here is getting too high for me. But while I am still here, do not expect me to take quietly blasphemous offense against my people.

If you think differently, then do not say things that can only be interpreted this way.

Today, you are sh**tposting about me in this thread almost two months after I made my last post here, and you were posting insulting stuff about me on IGD long after I had put you on ignore. I have had enough of that.

I briefly considered explaining my position here and trying to engage in a discussion in an intellectually honest way, but I did that before in discussions with you and it was a true waste of time, as you seem to enjoy deliberately misinterpreting people's statements and creating easy strawmen in order to make people look bad (not only in my case, but that is cold comfort). Calling people nazis is also not exactly constructive, and it remains really rich to call me out on supposedly being too negative about Jews, as I figuratively stand up thinking about the well-being of my people and go to bed thinking of it. I do not ask you to abandon the forum. I ask you to ignore me.

[ag]

Nazis did not kill Jews for practicing their religion or for their political views. Nazis killed Jews of all kinds. And there were many kinds. Many, if not most, scared the hell out of the "civilised" Europeans and Americans. In fact, the "civilised" people did not need the Nazis to kill or persecute Jews: Nazis are but a final (?) episode in a long story. There are certain things that cannot be forgiven or forgotten. But when a Jew joins with the "civilised" people in their favourite pastime, since this time it is "not about the Jews", he has no right to plea that he is being offended: there is nothing that could be more offensive than what he himself is doing.

[ag]

I do not stalk you. I was in this thread before you came here. I have carefully avoided joining in conversations in which you participate for months now. You, it seems, will not be satisfied till I completely abandon these forums. I may still do this: the Nazi waive here is getting too high for me. But while I am still here, do not expect me to take quietly blasphemous offense against my people.

If you think differently, then do not say things that can only be interpreted this way.

Today, you are sh**tposting about me in this thread almost two months after I made my last post here,  I do not ask you to abandon the forum. I ask you to ignore me.

I have been traveling and only looked up this thread because somebody else posted in it: it was at the top of this little-used board. I saw your post accidentally. I did  not search for you: reading your posts is upsetting me so much, I might get a heart attack one of these days, so I am actively avoiding it. Unfortunately, putting you on ignore does not help: wherever you show up the entire discussion acquires that despicable brown tint that is impossible to ignore. Leave me, at least, the history threads, I thought I was safe here.

[DavidB.]

1) I don't care about Jews being "civilized" (in whose eyes, btw?) or not, and I deeply prefer the shtetl Jew or the mellah Jew rather than the "white" Jew who apologizes for his people in order to fit in and be accepted -- in that sense I even think we tend to agree
2) I don't care about Jews being religious or not, as long as they have ahavat yisrael
3) I am deeply suspicious of people/"Jews" considering all sorts of causes "Jewish causes" -- from climate change to UFOs, in some cases -- while ignoring the pressing Jewish causes of our time and dismissing very real problems that Jews encounter in our time. I still recall you being incredibly offensive in a discussion regarding my and my community's safety in a big European city (and then we are not even talking about Israel). You don't get to talk about others being "offensive to my people" when you make that kind of statements.

Leave me, at least, the history threads, I thought I was safe here.

I would not have replied to this thread anymore if it weren't for you making libellous posts about me.

And now I am going to sleep. Goodbye.

[ag]

1) I don't care about Jews being "civilized" (in whose eyes, btw?) or not, and I deeply prefer the shtetl Jew or the mellah Jew rather than the "white" Jew who apologizes for his people in order to fit in and be accepted -- in that sense I even think we tend to agree
2) I don't care about Jews being religious or not, as long as they have ahavat yisrael
3) I am deeply suspicious of people/"Jews" considering all sorts of causes "Jewish causes" -- from climate change to UFOs, in some cases -- while ignoring the pressing Jewish causes of our time and dismissing very real problems that Jews encounter in our time. I still recall you being incredibly offensive in a discussion regarding my and my community's safety in a big European city. You don't get to talk about others being "offensive to my people" when you make that kind of statements.

And now I am going to sleep. Goodbye.

You have spent your entire time on these threads building up the cause that is incompatible with the security of any minority - and Jews are a minority in this world. You are continuously and in an extremely offensive fashion attacking things that are fundamental to Jewish survival. The fact that you, at the same time, claim to be Jewish is triply offensive.

Anyway, gey shlofn, just stop poisoning the atmosphere around here. I have been on these boards for more than 10 years, and I have never before been in a position, where I am forced to actively avoid the bulk of discussions. I have abandoned almost all conversations where I might run into you and your hatred of all that I find important and moral: and you have the gall to claim I am stalking you. I need you, vi a loch in kop: but I cannot tolerate the atmosphere of hate you create without telling the rest of those present what I think of it.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

At least you two had your spat in a thread that had ended. Locking while I decide what, if anything, I do with it.