Should we allow more Jewish Germans to seek refuge?

[ag]

Be careful. You will start getting non-sarcastic messages of agreement very soon, as has already happened to you recently in other threads.

[ag]

Fun fact: FBI pretty much started with young J. Egar Hoover getting to sort through the archives of the former Russian embassy: they had pretty damn good intelligence on Russian refugees´ activities in the US. The documents are still at the Hoover institution. Many years ago (I am getting old) I worked as an assitant to a historian, who was trying to use them the files to write a book. We would meet at YIVO in NYC (back then still on 5th ave.), he would give me piles of photocopied documents and I translated. There are things one never forgets...

When Grigory (Gersh-Isaak) Gershuni, the founding leader of the Social Revolutionary Party´s Fighting Organization - the largest and most successful terrorist organization in the history of the Russian Empire - fled his Siberian prison, he, actually, escaped into the US, landing, if my memory does not betray me, in San Francisco. On his arrival, a "deputation" showed up in his hotel, asking him to make a speech to the local public. Gershuni had doubts, whether there would be any interest. But the locals were confident: "we have many Jews here". "But are they ready for the Revolution?" asked Gershuni. To which he got a natural response: "All Jews are ready for the Revolution!"

That is the real Jewish tradition that many - most, probably - Jewish refugees from Europe into the US would identify with before WWII: not the invented romanticism of the Zionists or the abandoned Orthodoxy of the shtetl. Well into the 1940s and 1950s "right-wing" in Yiddish New York meant "sociallist" (in contrast to left-wing communists). There was a time, now forgotten, when Jewish nationalism meant The Bund: not some Zionist romanticism (which at the time was cursed by the bulk of the Yiddishkayt, including both the rabbis and by the socialists). A certain poster here, who claims to be Jewish, would happily leave those people to the Nazis: they were not real Jews to him, as they did not share his idea of what Jewishness means.

I simply have no words left.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ft9iuZu0AI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3HSoMG_CGL0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jedwb4bqUKc

[ag]

My friends. I am in no way unsympathetic to the many Jews escaping Persecution from Mr Hitler. My heart goes out to them. I am not an anti-Semite and not only do I have many Jewish friends, but a Jew goes to my golf club. However, the United States cannot raise its quota for these people. It's just a matter of public safety. After all, many Jews in Germany are disproportionately linked to communist uprisings. Can we be sure that the American nation will be safe from communism? Perhaps refugees will be spies for foreign governments! Perhaps they will take American jobs! Like I said I AM NOT ANTI SEMETIC (and if you call me antisemetic that's as bad as being antisemetic) but many Jews just want to destroy America and all it stands for.

In addition, I have a suggestion (not based on race k, it's on public safety) about what to do with the Japanese ...

You did get the non-sarcastic supporters here: I warned you.

[ag]

And one more thing. I did abandon the relevant topics in the International Discussion board, because I cannot stomach reading through the horror that is happening there. But this is the history forum: the proper place to remember the dead. I will not let their memory be blasphemed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzPShrawxLc

[ag]

I notice, I have been reported again: for "personal attack". I guess, attacking my people, as has just been done elsewhere in this thread, is no offense. The dead cannot respond. But my duty is to defend their memory against those, who would betray it.

[ag]

A certain poster here, who claims to be Jewish, would happily leave those people to the Nazis: they were not real Jews to him, as they did not share his idea of what Jewishness means.

You could, of course, try to act as if this low blow was not directed at me,

Why would I act like that? I, most definitely, had your posts in mind.

I do firmly believe that your posts in this thread are a direct attack on the memory of Jewish refugees, who fled Europe before WWII (unless, that is, you are willing to claim that you are entirely ignorant of the pre-WWII Jewish history). I do not take such attacks lightly. In fact, I find them - yes, I will use this word - blasphemous.

This has nothing to do with you personally (I do not know you personally), but with the despicable views you consistently expound. I guess, you do not differentiate between yourself and your views: but I am not responsible for that. I have been forced to abandon the International Discussion board, because I simply feel sick every time I read what you and your kind post (not to mention that your policy of complaining about every post of mine to the moderators makes my participation impossible). But I simply cannot let you defile the graves of the Jewish victims with impunity here.

I will not tolerate disrespect to the memory of the victims of the Nazis, no matter whether the source of this disrespect comes from somebody who claims to be Jewish or not. In fact, when coming from somebody who claims a connection to my heritage, such behaviour is triply offensive and infinitely unforgivable.

[ag]

I should clarify something: I am no left-winger, still less a communist. I am a free-market neoliberal economist, pretty consistently voting for the right in my own country. I am no admirer of comrade Gershuni, nor of his Bundist rivals - I have been an avowed anti-communist long before many of those present here were born. Nor, of course, I am a traditionalist shtetl Jew - that life has been abandoned by my family generations ago. I am an atheist, with no personal need for God, outside of tradition or community. I am cosmopolitan, internationally educated, fluent in English, native in Russian, passable in Spanish: an inoffensive and recognisable college prof. Chances are, few "whites" would be scared by me. But I will take the fifth here: commandment, that is. To honour my ancestors I do not need to remake them in my own image. There have been all kinds among them: traditional and modernising, entrepreneurial and socialist, religious and secular; probably even Zionist Few, though, would be sufficiently "white" and assimilated to be non-controversially accepted as refugees or migrants anywhere.  They lived hard and dangerous lives: their lives. I am privileged, by virtue of transformation that has happened during the previous two or three generations, and I am grateful to fate for this privilege. But I will not forget those who came before me, nor disrespect them, nor pretend they were what they were not. They are my people, and I will not tolerate anybody speaking ill of them.

[ag]

Why would I act like that? I, most definitely, had your posts in mind.

I do firmly believe that your posts in this thread are a direct attack on the memory of Jewish refugees, who fled Europe before WWII (unless, that is, you are willing to claim that you are entirely ignorant of the pre-WWII Jewish history). I do not take such attacks lightly. In fact, I find them - yes, I will use this word - blasphemous.

This has nothing to do with you personally (I do not know you personally), but with the despicable views you consistently expound. I guess, you do not differentiate between yourself and your views: but I am not responsible for that. I have been forced to abandon the International Discussion board, because I simply feel sick every time I read what you and your kind post (not to mention that your policy of complaining about every post of mine to the moderators makes my participation impossible). But I simply cannot let you defile the graves of the Jewish victims with impunity here.

I will not tolerate disrespect to the memory of the victims of the Nazis, no matter whether the source of this disrespect comes from somebody who claims to be Jewish or not.

Dude, I didn't exactly say much about Jewish refugees in this thread (my family were literally refugees themselves), let alone anything that is disrespectful. Your accusations are absurd and the idea that I am desecrating the memory of Jewish Shoa victims or Jewish refugees is even more absurd, and I hope Ernest will take down the specific libellous post in which you accuse me of being okay with nazis deporting Jews with whom I do not agree, for this has no place here. I am not responsible for your wild imagination or your bizarre interpretations of my posts. Stop stalking me on this forum and talking sh*t about me.

You have mentally remade the Jews of the past in your own image. You, of course, would not abandon those idealised Jews of your imagination. But you have explicitly disowned the real Jews in this very thread. There is no other interpretation for your words here.

[ag]

You have mentally remade the Jews of the past in your own image. You, of course, would not abandon those idealised Jews of your imagination. But you have explicitly disowned the real Jews in this very thread.

This is all your interpretation; you clearly don't understand how I think (and I know better how I think than you). That's fine. But keep your interpretation yours. Don't post nonsense about me and don't stalk me. Shouldn't be too hard.

I do not stalk you. I was in this thread before you came here. I have carefully avoided joining in conversations in which you participate for months now. You, it seems, will not be satisfied till I completely abandon these forums. I may still do this: the Nazi waive here is getting too high for me. But while I am still here, do not expect me to take quietly blasphemous offense against my people.

If you think differently, then do not say things that can only be interpreted this way.

[ag]

Nazis did not kill Jews for practicing their religion or for their political views. Nazis killed Jews of all kinds. And there were many kinds. Many, if not most, scared the hell out of the "civilised" Europeans and Americans. In fact, the "civilised" people did not need the Nazis to kill or persecute Jews: Nazis are but a final (?) episode in a long story. There are certain things that cannot be forgiven or forgotten. But when a Jew joins with the "civilised" people in their favourite pastime, since this time it is "not about the Jews", he has no right to plea that he is being offended: there is nothing that could be more offensive than what he himself is doing.

[ag]

I do not stalk you. I was in this thread before you came here. I have carefully avoided joining in conversations in which you participate for months now. You, it seems, will not be satisfied till I completely abandon these forums. I may still do this: the Nazi waive here is getting too high for me. But while I am still here, do not expect me to take quietly blasphemous offense against my people.

If you think differently, then do not say things that can only be interpreted this way.

Today, you are sh**tposting about me in this thread almost two months after I made my last post here,  I do not ask you to abandon the forum. I ask you to ignore me.

I have been traveling and only looked up this thread because somebody else posted in it: it was at the top of this little-used board. I saw your post accidentally. I did  not search for you: reading your posts is upsetting me so much, I might get a heart attack one of these days, so I am actively avoiding it. Unfortunately, putting you on ignore does not help: wherever you show up the entire discussion acquires that despicable brown tint that is impossible to ignore. Leave me, at least, the history threads, I thought I was safe here.

[ag]

1) I don't care about Jews being "civilized" (in whose eyes, btw?) or not, and I deeply prefer the shtetl Jew or the mellah Jew rather than the "white" Jew who apologizes for his people in order to fit in and be accepted -- in that sense I even think we tend to agree
2) I don't care about Jews being religious or not, as long as they have ahavat yisrael
3) I am deeply suspicious of people/"Jews" considering all sorts of causes "Jewish causes" -- from climate change to UFOs, in some cases -- while ignoring the pressing Jewish causes of our time and dismissing very real problems that Jews encounter in our time. I still recall you being incredibly offensive in a discussion regarding my and my community's safety in a big European city. You don't get to talk about others being "offensive to my people" when you make that kind of statements.

And now I am going to sleep. Goodbye.

You have spent your entire time on these threads building up the cause that is incompatible with the security of any minority - and Jews are a minority in this world. You are continuously and in an extremely offensive fashion attacking things that are fundamental to Jewish survival. The fact that you, at the same time, claim to be Jewish is triply offensive.

Anyway, gey shlofn, just stop poisoning the atmosphere around here. I have been on these boards for more than 10 years, and I have never before been in a position, where I am forced to actively avoid the bulk of discussions. I have abandoned almost all conversations where I might run into you and your hatred of all that I find important and moral: and you have the gall to claim I am stalking you. I need you, vi a loch in kop: but I cannot tolerate the atmosphere of hate you create without telling the rest of those present what I think of it.