What can fix South Africa?

[Vega]

South Africa is doing fairly well by most African nation state standards, but there are obviously still some tremendous issues, 1. What are they? And 2. How can they be fixed?

I ask because SA is a curious case, doing well in many respects, but still falling behind.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Time.

It'll be at least another twenty years before the ANC is in serious danger of losing a national election and until then the corruption that has become South Africa's biggest problem can be fixed, or at least replaced by smart corruption that does more than simply line pockets but actually gets things done as a quid pro quo for staying in power.

[Vega]

Time.

It'll be at least another twenty years before the ANC is in serious danger of losing a national election and until then the corruption that has become South Africa's biggest problem can be fixed, or at least replaced by smart corruption that does more than simply line pockets but actually gets things done as a quid pro quo for staying in power.

Well, true, but what solutions could be done for SA to succeed in the present? What laws/acts could be passed?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Time.

It'll be at least another twenty years before the ANC is in serious danger of losing a national election and until then the corruption that has become South Africa's biggest problem can be fixed, or at least replaced by smart corruption that does more than simply line pockets but actually gets things done as a quid pro quo for staying in power.

Well, true, but what solutions could be done for SA to succeed in the present? What laws/acts could be passed?

SA has reasonably good laws on the books, but if they aren't being applied fairly and uniformly, good laws aren't the solution.  It'll take a change in the political culture of South Africa for them to make any significant progress beyond where they are, and that change is unlikely to happen so long as the ANC can continue to rest on its well-deserved laurels from the struggle against apartheid. Ending that will take time.

[Famous Mortimer]

DA are almost certainly less crazy on the issue of AIDS.

The other main problem in South Africa is rape but that's not something politicians can fix.

[ingemann]

Time.

It'll be at least another twenty years before the ANC is in serious danger of losing a national election and until then the corruption that has become South Africa's biggest problem can be fixed, or at least replaced by smart corruption that does more than simply line pockets but actually gets things done as a quid pro quo for staying in power.

Well, true, but what solutions could be done for SA to succeed in the present? What laws/acts could be passed?

Honestly there's not a lot you can do in the short term, except keeping South Africa a liberal democracy and avoiding ANC getting enough seat to change the constitution or changing the provincial border (ANC have talked about reunite the Cape Province and abolish Gauteng to weaken DA).

But when we look at numbers for South Africa, they're good news.

Birth rate per woman: 2,4
Annual population growth: 1,34%
GDP growth: 2,6%

This is very good news, the low population growth by African standards, mean that the economical growth isn't eaten up by a growing population, but there's also a large young population, who can be used in a growing economy. While I don't think that South Africa belong in the BRICS, the country do have a large potentia, and as long as they stay a liberal democracy with respect for the rule of law, I think they will live up to that potetial.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Of the BRICS, South Africa has far more potential than Russia IMO which is just a disaster.

And yes, fighting corruption, building up the infrastructure (especially in regards to energy, which is a major block), clearing slums, and gradually transforming BEE into a more substantial programme are all important. The local elections next year will be interesting, as it may wrest many state capitals away from the ANC. Seeing whether unions will be made more important of COSATU will be interesting. (Or whether the Tripiarte Alliance will breakdown entirely)

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Because of the nature of South Africa's electoral demography whoever will eventually defeat the ANC is far more likely to be a splinter group from the current ANC than the DA.

[ingemann]

Of the BRICS, South Africa has far more potential than Russia IMO which is just a disaster.

I disagree, while Russia is in many way just as dysfunctional as South Africa, it's both a more significant player, a more developed economy and have a greater potential than South Africa. Yes they suffer under a political system which is a disaster and delusions of grandeur. But Russia have vast amount of resources, vast agricultural land and a well educated population. The reason Russia shouldn't be part of BRICS is mostly because it is a developed country, a poor one but a developed one, what they really lack is a better political system, less corruption and a population wanting to buy their own produce, and because of the sanctions we may see that happens, as Russia have begun to produce their own basic products to their consumers, which mean we may see the development of more small business, which may create a middle class not connected to the regime or oligarchs. 

[Lief 🗽]

Make the whites finally pay for the crimes of their ancestors, to start.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Make the whites finally pay for the crimes of their ancestors, to start.

Do you also plan on making the Zulus pay for the crimes of their ancestors on the original inhabitants of the area?  Revenge for ancestors gets messy.  It's better to focus on the future, tho doing so does require dealing with the past to some extent.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

My troll position on South African politics is that the REAL original inhabitants should rule it. That is the (now) Afrikaans-speaking coloureds of the Cape provinces and not the Bantu interlopers.

[The Free North]

Make the whites finally pay for the crimes of their ancestors, to start.

If you think retribution is a good idea, Robert Mugabe would like to have a word with you.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Some kind of redistribution is entirely necessary, although the haphazard way Mugabe carried it out poses a warning on how it can be done wrong.

Of the BRICS, South Africa has far more potential than Russia IMO which is just a disaster.

I disagree, while Russia is in many way just as dysfunctional as South Africa, it's both a more significant player, a more developed economy and have a greater potential than South Africa. Yes they suffer under a political system which is a disaster and delusions of grandeur. But Russia have vast amount of resources, vast agricultural land and a well educated population. The reason Russia shouldn't be part of BRICS is mostly because it is a developed country, a poor one but a developed one, what they really lack is a better political system, less corruption and a population wanting to buy their own produce, and because of the sanctions we may see that happens, as Russia have begun to produce their own basic products to their consumers, which mean we may see the development of more small business, which may create a middle class not connected to the regime or oligarchs. 

It seems to me that Russia largely coasts off its old status as a superpower, but is far more vulnerable. The economy is still relatively undiversified from fossils and arms and the population is in a capricious decline.

[VPH]

As said before, time. Also overall economic development needs to occur and clearly with the current amount of corruption, it won't happen.

[ingemann]

Some kind of redistribution is entirely necessary, although the haphazard way Mugabe carried it out poses a warning on how it can be done wrong.

Of the BRICS, South Africa has far more potential than Russia IMO which is just a disaster.

I disagree, while Russia is in many way just as dysfunctional as South Africa, it's both a more significant player, a more developed economy and have a greater potential than South Africa. Yes they suffer under a political system which is a disaster and delusions of grandeur. But Russia have vast amount of resources, vast agricultural land and a well educated population. The reason Russia shouldn't be part of BRICS is mostly because it is a developed country, a poor one but a developed one, what they really lack is a better political system, less corruption and a population wanting to buy their own produce, and because of the sanctions we may see that happens, as Russia have begun to produce their own basic products to their consumers, which mean we may see the development of more small business, which may create a middle class not connected to the regime or oligarchs. 

It seems to me that Russia largely coasts off its old status as a superpower, but is far more vulnerable. The economy is still relatively undiversified from fossils and arms and the population is in a capricious decline.

We overestimated the vulnerable of the Russian economy, and it's far more diverse than we give its credit for, through not really competitive with western industries. As for the population, it's slowly rising to replacements levels and at the same time, the population stay stable or even grows thanks to the return of Russians from the former USSR (the Baltics are ironic enough the great exception, the Russians there prefer to migrate west). So Russia will stay a developed country with vast riches of raw materials and a well educated population on the other side of 100 millions.

South Africa on the other hand suffer from the fact that their income mostly come from a small minority, who will fall as percent of the population. So unless they increase the productivity of the Black and Coloured part of population, they will see increased trouble down the road, especially because the relative higher income of even poor South Africans make South Africa a bad choice for setting up labour heavy but unskilled industries.

[Bigby]

Nothing. The system of South Africa is inherently doomed unless you further divide it between the various ethnic groups living there.

[Hash]

Nothing. The system of South Africa is inherently doomed unless you further divide it between the various ethnic groups living there.

You're an idiot. Please stop saying words.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

South Africa isn't the basket-case that it is often made out to be. To be frank, I think that the conventional wisdom about South Africa is permeated by racialist narratives; this is evidenced by the unyielding punditry about the ANC, which is nearly always portrayed as a malignant tumor that needs to be removed from the body politic and replaced by the DA. This is hardly subtle dog-whistling.

I'm not particularly fond of the ANC, particularly known cretin and fraud Thabo Mbeki, but it's more comparable to the INC than to the ZANU-PF. The ANC has presided over fairly substantial reductions in racial inequality, it has managed to attract significant levels of foreign investment and it has created a Black middle class. "Brain drain" and "white flight" are intractable problems but these problems are not entirely the fault of the ANC. Of course racist whites were going to resent losing their privilege!

Of course, the ANC is also, in large part, responsible for the shambolic response to the AIDS epidemic, which I'd argue has played the largest role in constraining South Africa's development trajectory.

[DavidB.]

Nothing. The system of South Africa is inherently doomed unless you further divide it between the various ethnic groups living there.

While I want to believe in the rainbow nation ideal, I fear you are right.

[Famous Mortimer]

Jacob Zuma said that Africa was the largest continent in the world and that all the other continents put together could fit inside it.

Opposition to the ANC is based on racism though.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Nothing. The system of South Africa is inherently doomed unless you further divide it between the various ethnic groups living there.

Yeah, clearly what S Africa needs is a completely arbitrary balkanisation. That would sure help matters!

[ingemann]

Nothing. The system of South Africa is inherently doomed unless you further divide it between the various ethnic groups living there.

Sorry the suggestion is terrible, first of all ethnic groups in South African context are clearly very unclear.

We can go with the four racial group, which means a Coloured-White state in the west and a Black state in the east, both with large minorities of the other groups.

Next we can go with linguistic borders, which would be a nightmare.

The problem are that the different groups have a mish mash of overlapping identities and splitting a country over ethnic iodentity demand clear cut national-ethnic identities and much clear borders between the different groups. South Africa makes the ethnic borders on the Balkans look simple.