NE1: Right to Life Act (failed)

[Former Lincoln Assemblyman & Lt. Gov. RGN]

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Sponor: Lt. Gov. Kent
Mr. Lt. Gov, you have 36 hours to advocate for your bill

[Blair]

I think the Death Penalty has already been abolished within the whole of Atlasia, beyond that I'm not going to be supporting this bill

[Clyde1998]

I can't support things like contraceptives and abortion being illegal.

[Clark Kent]

This law would explicitly keep contraceptives legal. I will explain more later when I have time and access to a computer.

[DemPGH]

Okay, weighing in with a legal opinion:

The Constitution already guarantees clause 1. If we were independent we would want to put clause 1 in the Bill of Rights.

Clause 3 would not survive legal challenge as written, but late term abortions (28+ months) are banned by federal law with exceptions, which is something I would support. I also think the It's Not Up To You Act makes money available for unwanted pregnancy related issues.

[Clark Kent]

I firmly believe that abortion is murder, and should not be permitted. That being said, I understand that there are many situations where a mother feels unable or unwilling to take care of an unwanted child, which is why I included Clause 4.  This is also the primary reason I added the Foster Care part to the Care for Those in Need Act.

I also understand that the use of contraceptives is not killing a child that would otherwise have been born and is not abortion, so I have no problems with it (hence Clause 5).

Finally, upon rereading this, I would amend Clause 3 to allow lifesaving abortions.

[Clyde1998]

This law would explicitly keep contraceptives legal.

Sorry - I miss read the bill.

I firmly believe that abortion is murder

I, personally, believe it's murder if the child could survive outside of the womb - the current abortion laws prevent this from happening.

[Clark Kent]

Perhaps a provision granting additional funds for researching ways to allow unborn children to survive outside of the womb earlier would improve this?

[Blair]

To put it bluntly I'm not signing this bill

[Clark Kent]

To put it bluntly I'm not signing this bill

Any particular reason?

[Blair]

To put it bluntly I'm not signing this bill

Any particular reason?

Because this bill would take us back to the 1950's where women had to go to dark alleys to get dodgy abortions that would do even more harm. We're not a theocracy-a 28 week abortion ban is fine enough as it is. There isn't even a provision for an 11 year old girl to get an abortion if she gets raped by a family member.

Even if I did support the premise of the bill it's a logistical nightmare to simply declare it illegal and expect everything to suddenly slide into place

[Former Lincoln Assemblyman & Lt. Gov. RGN]

Representatives, you have 48 hours to vote

[Clyde1998]

Nay

[Clark Kent]

AYE

[Clark Kent]

To put it bluntly I'm not signing this bill

Any particular reason?

Because this bill would take us back to the 1950's where women had to go to dark alleys to get dodgy abortions that would do even more harm. We're not a theocracy-a 28 week abortion ban is fine enough as it is. There isn't even a provision for an 11 year old girl to get an abortion if she gets raped by a family member.

Even if I did support the premise of the bill it's a logistical nightmare to simply declare it illegal and expect everything to suddenly slide into place

With all due respect Mr. Governor, claiming that a law is bad because people will violate it anyways is not a good argument.

[Blair]

To put it bluntly I'm not signing this bill

Any particular reason?

Because this bill would take us back to the 1950's where women had to go to dark alleys to get dodgy abortions that would do even more harm. We're not a theocracy-a 28 week abortion ban is fine enough as it is. There isn't even a provision for an 11 year old girl to get an abortion if she gets raped by a family member.

Even if I did support the premise of the bill it's a logistical nightmare to simply declare it illegal and expect everything to suddenly slide into place

With all due respect Mr. Governor, claiming that a law is bad because people will violate it anyways is not a good argument.

Yes it is, I'm not going to preside over a region where 13 year old girls are forced to give themselves backstreet abortions. There's a reason that the vast majority of civilized countries have a provision for abortion-the year is 2015 not 1915. Women's health is an important issue, and the access to abortion services is just as important.

You're bill is quite simply awful, and if you want a good argument tell me where the funding will come from to tell the millions of women that abortions are illegal? Tell me what the punishment will be for a woman for having an abortion? Tell me why the Northeast Government shall enforce this bill? Tell me why the Northeast government has a right to control the bodies of millions of women.

You can't just propose a bill that would issue the most sweeping social in 50 years and expect people to vote for it. This law is bad because it's so reactionary that no country with any self respect would pass it

[Clark Kent]

The reason I proposed this bill is to save lives, specifically those of unborn children.


I assume that Atlasia has Planned Parenthood (though correct me if I'm wrong). Seems like women's health would be right up their alley. We can increase sin taxes and possibly raise property taxes on non-residential areas to pay for nine months of the best care we can get for women. I assume we also already have maternity leave, so no woman will lose her job because of an unplanned or unwanted pregnancy.

I don't think we should arrest the woman for having an illegal abortion, but we can dish out heavy fines. We can arrest the doctors that carry them out, though.

And, like I said at the beginning, we wouldn't be doing this to control the bodies of women. We'd be doing it to save lives.

[Potus]

Not really my place, but I'll chime in.

For one thing, this notion that a 28 week ban takes care of the viability is astonishing. The baby has a chance of surviving outside of the mother's womb at 22 weeks. That number is also about ten years old, so who knows where medical technology is today. Some science, though this is controversial, suggests a child can feel pain at 20 weeks in the womb. If a doctor goes to perform surgery on a pregnant woman at 20 weeks, the surgeon will anesthetize the baby. These facts alone justify tightening the ban on abortions to 20-22 weeks.

Women's health is very important. That's why the law provides statutory protections for contraceptives. What the law neglects to do is require surgical health standards and emergency room admittance rights for abortion clinics. The laws on the books don't do enough to protect women's health in an abortion clinic. It is very important for governments to guarantee the safety of medical workplaces and these clinics should be no exception. The pro-abortion movement, however, will take issue with these regulations because they'll put many clinics out of business. I don't understand how the legislators are the bad guys in a circumstance where abortion clinics are actively fighting health standards for women.

Furthermore, there are fairly common methods of enforcing abortion bans. Fines and license forfeiture come to mind as it pertains to the doctor. Most of the punishment should fall on the medical provider seeing as they stand in violation of their oath to "do no harm." Women should also be excepted to pay the full price of illegal abortions without insurance, government, or other third-party assistance.

Another, equally important, enforcement mechanism is dedicating ourselves to stopping back-alley abortions. Policing efforts should be made to limit these activities with both the provider and the woman on the hook for back alley abortions. I wouldn't object to a felony designation and tremendous fine for back alley abortions.

[Potus]

This law would explicitly keep contraceptives legal.

Sorry - I miss read the bill.

I firmly believe that abortion is murder

I, personally, believe it's murder if the child could survive outside of the womb - the current abortion laws prevent this from happening.

Why do you believe any abortions should be illegal, Clyde? To protect life?

[Clark Kent]

Mr. Speaker, I know we've already had two votes, including my own, but, if possible, I'd like to request extending debate.

[DemPGH]

As is:

1. I am willing to debate reasonable restrictions and late term bans on abortion.
2. I am unwilling to ban abortion because I believe a woman has a right to regulate pregnancy to include an abortion, and I don't much care for the idea of creeps down back alleys performing abortions the way they were performed in the ancient world.

No.

Now, happy Thanksgiving!

[Blair]

This bill doesn't propose bringing it down to 22 weeks POTUS-it proposes banning it all together

[Clark Kent]

This bill doesn't propose bringing it down to 22 weeks POTUS-it proposes banning it all together

In that case, would it be better if I proposed a separate bill which would ban abortions after 22 weeks? I know this bill probably won't pass, so there's no use trying to amend it now.

[Former Lincoln Assemblyman & Lt. Gov. RGN]

Mr. Speaker, I know we've already had two votes, including my own, but, if possible, I'd like to request extending debate.

I have to ask cinyc about this matter.

[Former Lincoln Assemblyman & Lt. Gov. RGN]

Abstain.

(BTW, I can't reopen the debate, perhaps re-introduce this bill in case it fails)