Opinion of Eamon De Valera

[Thunderbird is the word]

vote!

[Intell]

FF.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Hard to say with these kind of figures, but largely a failure. Mishandled the civil war, his economic policy was a bust, his social conservativism is a toxic legacy for ireland, he signed Hitler's condolence card and stayed around for way too long.

[tpfkaw]

his social conservativism is a toxic legacy for ireland

Now, as a confirmed homo, I'm not a fan of social conservatism, but Ireland has the most intact family structure (measured in terms of marriage/divorce ratio or birth rate) in either Europe or the Anglosphere. There's definitely something to be said for that.

[Wake Me Up When The Hard Border Ends]

FF.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

his social conservativism is a toxic legacy for ireland

Now, as a confirmed homo, I'm not a fan of social conservatism, but Ireland has the most intact family structure (measured in terms of marriage/divorce ratio or birth rate) in either Europe or the Anglosphere. There's definitely something to be said for that.

Well the many scandals of Catholic institutions in Ireland abusing children, and grisly stories of dead infants buried en masse suggest this 'intact family structure' was covering up something deeply unpleasant, no? I fail to see how locking people into marriages solves the problem of familial breakdown rather than as a band aid.

I've often thought it weird that in the last two decades Ireland repudiated De Valera's cosy conservatism in the most slimy and materialistic manner (the Celtic Tiger years).

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

LOL.

I don't think I even need to give my thoughts.

[tpfkaw]

his social conservativism is a toxic legacy for ireland

Now, as a confirmed homo, I'm not a fan of social conservatism, but Ireland has the most intact family structure (measured in terms of marriage/divorce ratio or birth rate) in either Europe or the Anglosphere. There's definitely something to be said for that.

Well the many scandals of Catholic institutions in Ireland abusing children, and grisly stories of dead infants buried en masse suggest this 'intact family structure' was covering up something deeply unpleasant, no? I fail to see how locking people into marriages solves the problem of familial breakdown rather than as a band aid.

I've often thought it weird that in the last two decades Ireland repudiated De Valera's cosy conservatism in the most slimy and materialistic manner (the Celtic Tiger years).

Obviously there are a lot of downsides to the Irish state's close association to the Catholic Church. It wasn't such a great place for us LGBT people until very recently, among many other things (Magdalene laundries and so on). The celibacy crap and associated creation of cabals of perverts is the opposite of promoting healthy family structures, and the Church absolutely needs to end it.

But nobody's being forced into marriage in Ireland any more; they've had liberalized divorce for 20 years. And a culture with healthy family structures isn't something to sneer at.

The facts are that living in a two-parent household is the single best predictor of a child's future success, even more so than class. It has enormously positive effects on future income, educational attainment and grades, law-abidingness, mental health, rates of drug and alcohol abuse, even IQ. Which is obviously not to say that people who grow up in single-parent households end up screwed up – most don't of course - but statistically, a two-parent household is a huge leg up.

Unfortunately, no society has yet managed to square secular liberalism and the maintenance of healthy family structures. The closest we've ever come is probably... modern Ireland. From an objective standpoint, there's just about no better place for a child to be born in than Ireland.

And it's not all that closely related, but while the "Celtic Tiger" period you referenced did lead to some excesses and a bust, Ireland is still massively better off for it. They've gone from being poorer than Portugal to (still) being both richer and less unequal than the UK, and have had, easily, the best recovery of the PIIGS.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Fwiw it's still really hard to get a divorce in Ireland iirc even if it is legal.

The Celtic Tiger had two stages to be fair, the first half a deserved and helpful boom, the second a hilariously decadent and stupid orgy of speculation.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Massive FF.