moderate vs extreme neocons

[Thunderbird is the word]

In the immediate aftermate of 9-11 it seems like the predominant faction in the neocon movement was the idealist school of neocons whose line tended to be "Islam is a religion of peace, we just hate the extremists and want to spread democracy to the middle east whereas nowadays the Pamela Gellar/"Turn the middle east into a glass parking lot!" crowd seems to be more dominant. Was the first faction just disingenuous or do they still exist and have migrated back to there original home in the hawkish wing of the Democratic Party? I guess dudeabides might be one of the few examples of the former still around. Also maybe the latter faction are just knee-jerk bloodthirsty hawks moreso than neocons.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The latter faction are not and never were neocons. They were useful idiots appropriated by the neocons.

[SATW]

As a neoconservative/foreign policy hawk, I have to say that BRTD's comment is not false. Every ideology has it's crazies that it uses to rally the base. You cannot even argue to me that this isn't true.

So trying to paint neoconservative as some morally bankrupt ideology is a joke move. True Progressives and Social Justice Warriors are essentially the same "useful idiots" to left-wing activists and political leaders.

[Thunderbird is the word]

As a neoconservative/foreign policy hawk, I have to say that BRTD's comment is not false. Every ideology has it's crazies that it uses to rally the base. You cannot even argue to me that this isn't true.

So trying to paint neoconservative as some morally bankrupt ideology is a joke move. True Progressives and Social Justice Warriors are essentially the same "useful idiots" to left-wing activists and political leaders.

I agree, I was just making an observation about which strikes me as being the prevailing view at the moment. Then again, maybe the latter faction overlaps with isolationist types as well. A friend of mine who seemed intelligent and was a libertarian that I thought I had common ground with on some issues has over the past year resorted to the most base propaganda, including implying that all muslims celebrated 9-11.

[Clark Kent]

I suppose that I would fall into the first category.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

The latter are not neoconservatives. The neocon description is not synonymous with hawk

[Goldwater]

I suppose that I would fall into the first category.

Same here, I guess.

[bedstuy]

It's a very misused term.  People tend to use it to mean "supported the Iraq War," or "tends towards being a foreign policy hawk."  Yes, there were a few people in the Bush administration who were identified with the neo-conservative movement.  Paul Wolfowitz is an example.  But, the Bush administration was mostly just conservatives.  Dick Cheney was not a neoconservative in any way.   

Neoconservatism's main theorist was Irving Kristol.  I've actually read a few of his essays and it's all actually very relevant today.  I actually would call myself a neoconservative, in Kristol's words, "a liberal who has been mugged by reality."