which states have the best/worst system of local government?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I'm vert  interested in municipal governments around the world. American local government seems to be unfathomable, so I'm interested in which local government structures function the best, and what reforms should be introduced.

[rpryor03]

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=192480.0

[President Johnson]

I think the jungle primary (LA, CA and WA) is horrible. Also the system of a seperated election of governor and lieutenant governor doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[Crumpets]

I think the jungle primary (LA, CA and WA) is horrible. Also the system of a seperated election of governor and lieutenant governor doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I disagree. Just look at WA-4's election in 2014. Under a conventional primary system, Sarah Palin protégé Clint Didier would have won the Republican primary, and almost certainly gone on to defeat a no-name Democrat. As it is, he ran against a moderate Republican who managed to gain the support of centrists and liberals who eventually prevailed. Newhouse (the more moderate one) is probably much closer to the average voter in the district politically, and definitely much more prepared to govern.

Another example is the Seattle City Council races, which are similar but flipped to the Democrats. Instead of having the Democratic primary being tantamount to election, the higher turnout of voters in November get to select between two candidates who are probably much closer to the political median in their areas. Plus the top-two system is much kinder to third parties than the conventional system, at least in Seattle.

[Figueira]

I don't like jungle primaries but they're better than regular primaries.

[smoltchanov]

I think the jungle primary (LA, CA and WA) is horrible. Also the system of a seperated election of governor and lieutenant governor doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I disagree. Just look at WA-4's election in 2014. Under a conventional primary system, Sarah Palin protégé Clint Didier would have won the Republican primary, and almost certainly gone on to defeat a no-name Democrat. As it is, he ran against a moderate Republican who managed to gain the support of centrists and liberals who eventually prevailed. Newhouse (the more moderate one) is probably much closer to the average voter in the district politically, and definitely much more prepared to govern.

Another example is the Seattle City Council races, which are similar but flipped to the Democrats. Instead of having the Democratic primary being tantamount to election, the higher turnout of voters in November get to select between two candidates who are probably much closer to the political median in their areas. Plus the top-two system is much kinder to third parties than the conventional system, at least in Seattle.

Fully agree...

[Miles]

^ I also don't group LA's primary exactly in with CA and WA. From a logistical/cost perspective LA is more efficient in that a second round often isn't required.

[Sir Mohamed]

The best? I have no idea. Maybe NY or MA.


As far as governors are concerned the worst are:

- Virginia: A one-term-limit for the governor doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

- NH and VT: Two year terms are crazy. They're just running for reelection all the time. And why needs NH a 400 member assembly?? That's more than CA or TX. Absolutely crazy for such a small state.

- IL: A record of corrupt governors, but I have no idea whether this has anything to do with the System itsself.


Sperate elections for gov and lt gov. also don't make a lot of sense. This is in 18 states or so.

And I'm a strong opponent of term limits for state executives or legislators, especially term-limits for lifetime (other than judges).

[JerryArkansas]

Sperate elections for gov and lt gov. also don't make a lot of sense. This is in 18 states or so.

Well after 2016 it should be only 17 states that do this, here in Arkansas, there is a ballot proposal which would allow for the Lt. Governor to be elected along with the Governor.  It also give the office more power and allows for the Governor to appoint one if the office is vacant.

[Coolface Sock #42069]

Illinois's is pretty bad. We have more units of local government than any other state and aren't even close to being the most populous. It's inefficient and fiscally wasteful.

Especially in the Chicago area, there are cities that have built out to their borders but still have township governments which have the exact same jurisdictions and perform the exact same functions as the cities themselves. This is but one example of the redundancy we have in Illinois local government.

[Oak Hills]

I think you're making a mistake by asking which states have the best and worst systems of local government. The vast majority of states don't mandate cities and counties to have a specific local government structure, tho many do put some requirements on it. For instance, in Tennessee we have some consolidated city-county governments (Nashville, Hartsville, Lynchburg), others where the county government provides most of the services and the town governments have minimal responsibilities, and other "full-service cities" (like my hometown, Oak Ridge) in which the city government provides all of the necessary government services with the county government continuing to exist despite being largely or entirely redundant. Then there's the difference between cities, like Oak Ridge, that have only an elected council with a ceremonial mayor and hired city manager and others, which have an elected and strong mayor. However, I do believe that the state government mandates that counties elect about a dozen different offices directly, including county mayor or executive, property assessor, various judges,  road superintendent, etc., in addition to county commission. Partisan county elections are not mandated; rather whether or not partisan primaries are held is at the discretion of the county-level party organizations. For instance, my county, Roane, holds nonpartisan elections for county office, while the county containing the rest of my hometown, Anderson, has both Democratic and Republican primaries followed by a general election. And that brings me to another complication of local government in the States--many cities, and even small towns, are located in multiple counties. The county line goes straight thru my neighborhood, and I live two blocks inside Roane County. Every time I go downtown, I cross a county line, but it has no significance outside of property taxation and elections. Even worse, the town in the neighboring valley from mine (Oliver Springs), tho its population is only a couple thousand, is split between not two, but three counties, Anderson, Morgan, and Roane.

So, as you can see, all very complicated, and I'm with you on wishing we would discuss local government structures more on this forum. I don't know much about other states, however.

[Ebsy]

Missouri's municipal governments, around St. Louis in particular, are an embarrassment.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

So does the state have the power to merge, abolish and unilaterally screw sound with municipal governments? Or would you have to individually ask each county etc. whether they want to abolish themselves?

[Ebsy]

So does the state have the power to merge, abolish and unilaterally screw sound with municipal governments? Or would you have to individually ask each county etc. whether they want to abolish themselves?

Counties pretty much can't be messed with, and the State has very limited power over municipalities. Missouri in particular has laws that make municipal annexations extremely difficult and incorporation ridiculously easy, thus leading to the 90+ municipalities in St. Louis County.

[Oak Hills]

So does the state have the power to merge, abolish and unilaterally screw sound with municipal governments? Or would you have to individually ask each county etc. whether they want to abolish themselves?

I don't think so, but it may vary by state. Generally, whenever there is a consolidated city-county government, it's because the city and county both agreed that having separate governments was pointless (and I tend to agree with that in many cases). Multicounty towns are usually because the county line was drawn before the town was founded or before it expanded into the other county. For instance, my town didn't even exist until over a hundred years after the county line was probably drawn.

[Oak Hills]

So does the state have the power to merge, abolish and unilaterally screw sound with municipal governments? Or would you have to individually ask each county etc. whether they want to abolish themselves?

I don't think so, but it may vary by state. Generally, whenever there is a consolidated city-county government, it's because the city and county both agreed that having separate governments was pointless (and I tend to agree with that in many cases). Multicounty towns are usually because the county line was drawn before the town was founded or before it expanded into the other county. For instance, my town didn't even exist until over a hundred years after the county line was probably drawn.

Actually, now that I think about it, I think states are free to unilaterally screw around with local governments. You're probably already aware that the Constitution prohibits the federal government from unilaterally redrawing state lines, but I think few state constitutions contain such provisions regarding counties and cities. For instance, in Tenessee the Republican state government has unilaterally overridden ordinances passed by the liberal government in Nashville, and I presume there isn't anything stopping them, in theory, from altering local government structures altogether. Anecdotally, I know that one of the small towns in my neck of the woods recently changed its name from Lake City to Rocky Top in attempt to make it more attractive to businesses catering to tourists, and the state legislature had to sign off on the name change. Given that the state governments create counties and give towns and cities their charters, they should theoretically be able to revoke them as well. However, there might be a massive political uproar if they tried to pull such a stunt. Most places have a patchwork of different local governance models, unlike the more standardized systems in place in many countries, as a result of America's history and political culture.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Yes, I was comparing it to the reorganisations in various Canadian provinces. Of course they were very controversial, especially in Montreal, but they were eventually pushed through by provinical governments.

Another weird question. Could a municipal government cross a state line? Like those sprawling NE metropolises that cross about five states or Kansas City (?) or something?

[Oak Hills]

Yes, I was comparing it to the reorganisations in various Canadian provinces. Of course they were very controversial, especially in Montreal, but they were eventually pushed through by provinical governments.

Another weird question. Could a municipal government cross a state line? Like those sprawling NE metropolises that cross about five states or Kansas City (?) or something?

I don't think so. There are lots of cities that cross state lines, but I think all of them have separate municipal governments for each state.

Another favorite Tennessee trivium of mine: the town of Bristol, which is split between Virginia and Tennessee, has two high schools: Virginia High and Tennessee High (not really related, but the talk of multistate towns made me think of it).

[Ebsy]

Yes, I was comparing it to the reorganisations in various Canadian provinces. Of course they were very controversial, especially in Montreal, but they were eventually pushed through by provinical governments.

Another weird question. Could a municipal government cross a state line? Like those sprawling NE metropolises that cross about five states or Kansas City (?) or something?

I am not aware of any municipalities that cross state lines. In the case of the Kansas City, there is a Kansas City, Missouri, and a Kansas City, Kansas.

[Rockefeller GOP]

Maybe Utah?

[Kingpoleon]

Georgia and Arkansas have pretty decent state ones, as does Minnesota and New Jersey. I would say Louisiana, but if you kill your opponent, you win.

[International Brotherhood of Bernard]

Georgia and Arkansas have pretty decent state ones, as does Minnesota and New Jersey. I would say Louisiana, but if you kill your opponent, you win.

Ehh, New Jersey's isn't that great, it's rife with tiny boroughs surrounded by sprawling townships, all with separate governments, it's really inefficient. For example, near where I live, there's Rockaway Borough, which is basically a small downtown core, enveloped by Rockaway Township, which is a blob of sprawling and incoherent suburban neighborhoods. Essentially, the core of the town is operated separately from everything immediately around it, which really only serves to add confusion (it's why most locals refer to either "the Borough" or "the Township") and waste a ton of money on unneeded local governments.

School districts are another matter entirely, most towns/boroughs have their own K-8 systems then send to a regional 9-12 high school district (for example, Wharton, Rockaway Borough/Township, and Denville schools all send to Morris Hills Regional), which is just another layer of inefficiency and waste, since every district needs it's own office staff, administrators, etc. Quite the mess...

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

IL has the worst system, Dems have their veto proof majority & still cant get a budget, either by Rauner or Quinn.

[Virginiá]

IL has the worst system, Dems have their veto proof majority & still cant get a budget, either by Rauner or Quinn.

That seems more like an issue of political squabbling than an actual structural issue. But also, I didn't know that it was a 3/5th majority to override a veto there. I thought it was 2/3. Thanks for spurring my curiosity.

This makes this situation for them even worse. After all this time, how can they still not have even a basic budget passed when they clearly have the power (even if it is a very slim 3/5th majority in the State House). All I can think of is either they can't get a couple lawmakers to sign on to anything or they could even be dragging it out to make Rauner look bad, as everyone seems to blame the head of the executive far more often than anyone else.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Rauner wants term limits which will install new GOP favored map, in Senate & get Mike Madigan out by 2022. Dems are looking for minimum wage hike and increase taxes, that will help install a Dem gov in 2018. All about next election, instead of business.