If he ran third party, would Trump do better than Perot in '92
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  If he ran third party, would Trump do better than Perot in '92
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Author Topic: If he ran third party, would Trump do better than Perot in '92  (Read 2232 times)
The Free North
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« on: December 13, 2015, 10:47:09 AM »

We could be looking at another Bush v Clinton v eccentric billionaire who thinks Mexico is stealing all of our jobs running as a third party candidate


Perot's strongest states came in the Mountain West, Northern New England and Alaska. I feel that Trump would probably pull well in some of those areas, particularly the rural mountain west, but his base of support would probably be in the midwest and south.


For reference, Perot won just under 19% of the vote.
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President Johnson
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« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2015, 12:27:52 PM »

Maybe 20-21%; but I think he'll win 15-17%.
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jman123
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« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2015, 01:46:33 PM »

If Rubio were GOP nominee and Trump is spiteful and runs Independently How will you see each state play out on General election day? actual percent estimates by states is a plus!! 
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An American Tail: Fubart Goes West
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« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2015, 07:09:32 PM »

I highly doubt that Bush will be the Republican candidate. Trump doesn't seem to do well with Mormons, so Utah and Idaho could conceivably still go for the Republican. Alaska could be a good state for Trump. It might be the best chance that he has to win a state. Montana would probably go for Clinton again due to the split.  Wyoming might go for Trump or the Republican. Not sure about the Dakotas. He could poll well in parts of New England, but I don't see him winning anything there.
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SteveRogers
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« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2015, 07:56:17 PM »

I could see him pulling somewhere right around Perot numbers depending on who the Republican nominee is, but to do so he'd need to be willing to pour about $1 Billion of his own money into the race to compete in terms of advertising and campaign infrastructure, not to mention nationwide ballot access. He wouldn't be able to coast on free media attention in the general election like he's doing now.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2015, 08:13:22 PM »

Potentially.
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Suburbia
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« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2015, 08:20:30 PM »



Trump wins Montana, and Idaho, gets 7 electoral votes. He gets 17% of the vote, and Hillary Clinton wins the presidency. The Republicans lose the Senate, (loses IL, WI, PA, NH). Republicans see some House seats lost as well, but still control it. Turnout is medium, and Rubio has underwhelming victories in the South.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2015, 09:25:28 PM »


287: Sen. Marco Rubio(R-FL)/Fmr. Sec. Condoleezza Rice(R-CA) - 48.2%
251: Fmr. Sen. & Sec. Hillary Clinton(D-NY)/Sen. Sherrod Brown(D-OH) - 45.1%
000: Businessman Donald Trump(I-NY)/Investor Mark Cuban(I-TX) - 5.5%
Other: 1.0%

Republican Keynote: Cory Gardner
Democratic Keynote: Gavin Newsom
Make America Great Again Keynote: Tom Brady

White(Rubio):
60 - 30 - 7

Hispanic(Clinton):
52 - 44 - 3

African-American(Clinton):
79 - 15 - 2
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2015, 09:48:27 PM »

If he waits until February to announce an Indy run, I'm assuming he'll get 5-7% of the vote.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2015, 09:53:26 PM »

In general, any scenario with two strong conservative candidates on the ballot would result in a landslide victory for the Democratic ticket. The extent to which Trump harms the GOP would depend on the circumstances surrounding his departure: if he leaves because he's doing poorly in the primaries and there's no longer a path for him to the nomination, I don't see many Republicans deserting the party to vote for him. He'll be branded a sore looser and an egomaniac, and while he'll still probably get something like 5% or 7% of the popular vote, I doubt he'll have much of an impact. On the other hand, if Trump does well in the primaries but is denied the nomination by maneuverings at the RNC, I would not be surprised to see a large number of Republicans deciding to back him over the party nominee. The second scenario seems more likely at this point than the first, I based my map on the assumption that Trump gets the support of the GOPers who voted against the establishment in the primaries:


Sec. Hillary Clinton / Sec. Julian Castro [DEM] 51%, 477 EV
Sen. Marco Rubio / Gov. John Kasich [REP] 24%, 43 EV
Mr. Donald Trump / Sen. Ted Cruz [IND] 25%, 18 EV

In short, Trump's presence on the ballot takes enough votes from the GOP to allow the Democrats to rack up victories in states where the usually don't have a shot. Basically, anywhere where the Democrats regularly win 40%+ will become a swing state if Trump can get between 15% and 20% of the vote, and Lean D if he gets more than that.
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Stranger in a strange land
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« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2015, 09:55:13 PM »

Yes. He would be the de facto Republican candidate and come in second with about 40% of the PV and 120 or so EVs (Hillary would win a lot of states with pluralities due to vote-splitting). The official Republican candidate would get 5-10% of the vote and only win Utah and Idaho.
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Fuzzy Bear
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« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2015, 09:59:37 PM »

If Trump wins the nomination, or is a prohibitive favorite, will some Establishment Republican attempt a third-party run?
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2015, 10:20:02 PM »

He'd wind up with 17-19% of the PV, with the distribution of such being even more evenly spread than Perot (the Mountain West would still be a huge over-performer for Trump). With today's polarity, the result would be a likely 46-state sweep for Hillary, with the Republican winning UT and Trump winning WY, ID & OK.

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Uhh_murican
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« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2015, 10:23:18 PM »
« Edited: December 13, 2015, 10:29:50 PM by Uhh_murican »

Here's a scenario in which the 2012 vote is split between HRC, Trump, the GOP nominee, and other candidates as follows:

Obama 2012 vote --> 90% goes to HRC, 10% goes to Trump
Romney 2012 vote --> 40% goes to Trump, 70% goes to the GOP nominee (that adds up to more than 110% to simulate Trump turning out new GOP-leaning voters.
Other 2012 vote --> 80% to Trump, 60% to other 2016 (again, more than 100% for similar reasons).

Nationally that gives you HRC 46.0%, Trump 25.4%, GOP Nominee 33.0%, other 1.0%

Then you would want to ideally adjust further based on demographics. For example, Trump will get a larger than average share of the Romney 2012 vote in West Virginia, but a larger than average share of the Romney vote in Connecticut (etc.). But here's the uniform swing without any of those additional adjustments. With this uniform adjustment Trump doesn't win any states, but you can imagine that he would in reality do better in some states than others - he could win states like WV, ID, any of the plains states --- basically anywhere that is heavily GOP, heavily white, and not overly educated. On the other hand, HRC would have a shot at some other states like TX, MT, and some random other ones if the vote split worked out her way.




   HRC   Trump   GOP   Other
AL   34.5%   28.9%   42.4%   0.7%
AK   36.7%   29.5%   38.4%   2.6%
AZ   40.1%   27.3%   37.6%   1.1%
AR   33.2%   30.0%   42.4%   1.5%
CA   54.2%   23.0%   26.0%   1.6%
CO   46.3%   25.5%   32.3%   1.4%
CT   52.3%   23.1%   28.5%   0.7%
DE   52.7%   23.0%   28.0%   0.8%
DC   81.8%   13.4%   5.1%   1.1%
FL   45.0%   25.3%   34.4%   0.5%
GA   40.9%   26.8%   37.3%   0.7%
HI   63.5%   19.5%   19.5%   1.0%
ID   29.4%   31.4%   45.2%   1.7%
IL   51.8%   23.4%   28.5%   1.0%
IN   39.5%   27.6%   37.9%   1.2%
IA   46.8%   25.1%   32.3%   1.1%
KS   34.2%   29.5%   41.8%   1.4%
KY   34.0%   29.3%   42.3%   1.0%
LA   36.5%   28.5%   40.4%   1.0%
ME–a/l   50.6%   24.2%   28.7%   1.6%
ME–1   53.6%   23.0%   26.7%   1.4%
ME–2   47.6%   25.2%   31.1%   1.6%
MD   55.8%   22.3%   25.1%   1.3%
MA   54.6%   22.5%   26.3%   1.1%
MI   48.8%   24.2%   31.3%   0.6%
MN   47.4%   25.2%   31.5%   1.4%
MS   39.4%   27.2%   38.7%   0.6%
MO   39.9%   27.4%   37.6%   1.1%
MT   37.5%   28.7%   38.7%   1.8%
NE–a/l   34.2%   29.5%   41.9%   1.3%
NE–1   36.9%   28.3%   40.3%   0.9%
NE–2   41.2%   26.8%   37.1%   0.8%
NE–3   25.2%   32.2%   49.4%   0.9%
NV   47.1%   25.1%   32.0%   1.2%
NH   46.8%   25.1%   32.5%   1.0%
NJ   52.5%   22.9%   28.4%   0.6%
NM   47.7%   25.8%   30.0%   2.5%
NY   57.0%   21.6%   24.6%   0.9%
NC   43.5%   26.0%   35.3%   0.8%
ND   34.8%   29.6%   40.8%   1.8%
OH   45.6%   25.5%   33.4%   1.0%
OK   29.9%   30.0%   46.7%   0.0%
OR   48.8%   25.2%   29.5%   2.2%
PA   46.8%   25.0%   32.6%   0.9%
RI   56.4%   22.0%   24.7%   1.2%
SC   39.7%   27.3%   38.2%   0.8%
SD   35.9%   28.9%   40.5%   1.3%
TN   35.2%   28.9%   41.6%   0.9%
TX   37.2%   28.2%   40.0%   0.9%
UT   22.3%   33.6%   51.0%   1.5%
VT   59.9%   21.0%   21.7%   1.5%
VA   46.0%   25.3%   33.1%   0.9%
WA   50.5%   24.2%   28.9%   1.5%
WV   32.0%   30.2%   43.6%   1.3%
WI   47.5%   24.7%   32.1%   0.8%
WY   25.0%   33.1%   48.0%   2.1%
US   46.0%   25.4%   33.0%   1.0%
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ProgressiveCanadian
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« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2015, 10:48:49 PM »
« Edited: December 13, 2015, 10:51:46 PM by ProgressiveCanadian »


287: Sen. Marco Rubio(R-FL)/Fmr. Sec. Condoleezza Rice(R-CA) - 48.2%
251: Fmr. Sen. & Sec. Hillary Clinton(D-NY)/Sen. Sherrod Brown(D-OH) - 45.1%
000: Businessman Donald Trump(I-NY)/Investor Mark Cuban(I-TX) - 5.5%
Other: 1.0%

Republican Keynote: Cory Gardner
Democratic Keynote: Gavin Newsom
Make America Great Again Keynote: Tom Brady

White(Rubio):
60 - 30 - 7

Hispanic(Clinton):
52 - 44 - 3

African-American(Clinton):
79 - 15 - 2

Lol republicans winning and getting 44% of the hispanic vote? Keep dreaming buddy espeically with trump in the race.
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Sumner 1868
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« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2015, 11:13:41 PM »

No. He might do as well as Nader in 2000, though.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2015, 11:17:35 PM »


287: Sen. Marco Rubio(R-FL)/Fmr. Sec. Condoleezza Rice(R-CA) - 48.2%
251: Fmr. Sen. & Sec. Hillary Clinton(D-NY)/Sen. Sherrod Brown(D-OH) - 45.1%
000: Businessman Donald Trump(I-NY)/Investor Mark Cuban(I-TX) - 5.5%
Other: 1.0%

Republican Keynote: Cory Gardner
Democratic Keynote: Gavin Newsom
Make America Great Again Keynote: Tom Brady

White(Rubio):
60 - 30 - 7

Hispanic(Clinton):
52 - 44 - 3

African-American(Clinton):
79 - 15 - 2

Lol republicans winning and getting 44% of the hispanic vote? Keep dreaming buddy espeically with trump in the race.

Rubio easy distances himself from Trump on racial issues in the GE and secures his base on the budget, streamlining and de-regulating healthcare, and his hawkish views.
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H. Ross Peron
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« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2015, 11:40:34 PM »


287: Sen. Marco Rubio(R-FL)/Fmr. Sec. Condoleezza Rice(R-CA) - 48.2%
251: Fmr. Sen. & Sec. Hillary Clinton(D-NY)/Sen. Sherrod Brown(D-OH) - 45.1%
000: Businessman Donald Trump(I-NY)/Investor Mark Cuban(I-TX) - 5.5%
Other: 1.0%

Republican Keynote: Cory Gardner
Democratic Keynote: Gavin Newsom
Make America Great Again Keynote: Tom Brady

White(Rubio):
60 - 30 - 7

Hispanic(Clinton):
52 - 44 - 3

African-American(Clinton):
79 - 15 - 2

Lol republicans winning and getting 44% of the hispanic vote? Keep dreaming buddy espeically with trump in the race.

Rubio easy distances himself from Trump on racial issues in the GE and secures his base on the budget, streamlining and de-regulating healthcare, and his hawkish views.

Yes because Hispanics are so totally for austerity, gutting the ACA, and going to war with Iran. Rofl.
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« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2015, 11:43:25 PM »


287: Sen. Marco Rubio(R-FL)/Fmr. Sec. Condoleezza Rice(R-CA) - 48.2%
251: Fmr. Sen. & Sec. Hillary Clinton(D-NY)/Sen. Sherrod Brown(D-OH) - 45.1%
000: Businessman Donald Trump(I-NY)/Investor Mark Cuban(I-TX) - 5.5%
Other: 1.0%

Republican Keynote: Cory Gardner
Democratic Keynote: Gavin Newsom
Make America Great Again Keynote: Tom Brady

White(Rubio):
60 - 30 - 7

Hispanic(Clinton):
52 - 44 - 3

African-American(Clinton):
79 - 15 - 2

Lol republicans winning and getting 44% of the hispanic vote? Keep dreaming buddy espeically with trump in the race.

Rubio easy distances himself from Trump on racial issues in the GE and secures his base on the budget, streamlining and de-regulating healthcare, and his hawkish views.

Kingpoleon, it's time to stop posting, buddy. Okay?
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ProgressiveCanadian
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« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2015, 12:36:03 AM »


287: Sen. Marco Rubio(R-FL)/Fmr. Sec. Condoleezza Rice(R-CA) - 48.2%
251: Fmr. Sen. & Sec. Hillary Clinton(D-NY)/Sen. Sherrod Brown(D-OH) - 45.1%
000: Businessman Donald Trump(I-NY)/Investor Mark Cuban(I-TX) - 5.5%
Other: 1.0%

Republican Keynote: Cory Gardner
Democratic Keynote: Gavin Newsom
Make America Great Again Keynote: Tom Brady

White(Rubio):
60 - 30 - 7

Hispanic(Clinton):
52 - 44 - 3

African-American(Clinton):
79 - 15 - 2

Lol republicans winning and getting 44% of the hispanic vote? Keep dreaming buddy espeically with trump in the race.

Rubio easy distances himself from Trump on racial issues in the GE and secures his base on the budget, streamlining and de-regulating healthcare, and his hawkish views.

Its like saying if Sanders ran as an idependant but the GOP still loses by three...wtf??
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2015, 12:41:04 AM »

He couldn't do worse.  Perot got 0 EV.  Trump might be able to get a few from states like Alaska, tho I think a three-way race guarantees a Democratic victory.
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Beezer
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« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2015, 04:43:27 AM »

I think partisan ties are too strong today. Ultimately Trump's current base would fall in line and vote GOP faced with a potential Hillary presidency.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2015, 07:53:37 AM »

I think partisan ties are too strong today. Ultimately Trump's current base would fall in line and vote GOP faced with a potential Hillary presidency.
Truman's current base is largely people fed up with both parties. Even if they conclude that a third-party Trump can't win they'll largely either stay home or vote for him anyway. He's a GOP version of Nader in that respect.
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Why
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« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2015, 08:16:43 AM »

Yes, he could, but he probably would need to be seen to be hard done by by the GOP which would help motivate his supporters to vote for him against the GOP.
He could also run the general election against the GOP candidate and guarantee the GOP candidate loses and he might even beat the GOP candidate if they wilt under the duel attack of Trump and Clinton.
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Stranger in a strange land
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« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2015, 11:20:00 AM »
« Edited: December 14, 2015, 02:34:14 PM by Stranger in a strange land »



Clinton/Castro 49% - 387 EVs
Trump/Cuban 42% - 141 EVs
Rubio/Kasich 8% - 10 EVs
Other 1%
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