Let's be 100% serious here for a moment:
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  Let's be 100% serious here for a moment:
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Author Topic: Let's be 100% serious here for a moment:  (Read 6531 times)
Lief 🗽
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« on: December 16, 2015, 12:00:26 AM »

No one made a point as good, and as important, and as cogent in the debate as this one Donald Trump made on the obscene amounts we've invested in war instead of investing at home:

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The Other Castro
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« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2015, 12:02:31 AM »

Trump succeeds because he says what people want to hear in language that they can understand. This is evidence of that, and is why he has a very good chance of winning the nomination.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2015, 12:03:27 AM »

Absolutely.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2015, 12:04:43 AM »

Trump channels John Kerry 2004:

http://www.presidentialrhetoric.com/campaign/speeches/kerry_sept8.html

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Orthogonian Society Treasurer
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« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2015, 12:05:07 AM »

Soon the American people will have to make their choice. A vote for Donald Trump, a vote for peace at home and abroad or a vote for Hillary Clinton, a vote for war and human suffering.
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Torie
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« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2015, 12:09:47 AM »

Yes,, Trump is right on this, at least as to the invasion in Iraq, and mission creep in Afghanistan. Perhaps there would be some merit in electing him POTUS if the year were 2000. But it isn't 2000. It's now.
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weixiaobao
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« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2015, 12:10:19 AM »

It is easier for a Dem to make that point.  Hence I prop republicans like Pauls and Trump for saying stuffs like this.
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RFayette
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« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2015, 12:10:45 AM »

Trump clearly channels the fact that most voters (especially the GOP base) don't have a taste for nuance.  The fact that Jeb Bush doesn't get this shows that he is nowhere near as intelligent as people think he is.  And what he said definitely has a degree of truth to it, I might add.
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weixiaobao
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« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2015, 12:10:57 AM »

Yes,, Trump is right on this, at least as to the invasion in Iraq, and mission creep in Afghanistan. Perhaps there would be some merit in electing him POTUS if the year were 2000. But it isn't 2000. It's now.

You meant in 2004?
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Eraserhead
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« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2015, 12:16:33 AM »

Yes, he is 100% correct. I wish Hillary would say something like that but it'll never happen.
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Sprouts Farmers Market ✘
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« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2015, 12:20:27 AM »

Carly: INVEST IN INFRASTRUCTURE? A STIMULUS SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE WHAT OBAMA WOULD DO

Mr. Trump, would you like to respond to that outburst

Trump: To what, there's nothing in there I can respond to
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EliteLX
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« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2015, 12:24:56 AM »

Agree with Donny.
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ProudModerate2
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« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2015, 02:25:41 AM »

OMG ... I'm about to throw up ...
but, OK .... I will say it ............
I agree with Lief.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, that hurt !!!

PS: But I will still not vote for Trump. No way, no day.
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Sbane
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« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2015, 02:28:31 AM »

Yes, the fascist is right from time to time.
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publicunofficial
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« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2015, 03:03:15 AM »

Trump could advocate for a stimulus and public healthcare and his followers would eat it up.

Remember: It's only socialism or "Pussy foreign policy" if Fox News tells you so.
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○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└
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« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2015, 03:11:39 AM »

Soon the American people will have to make their choice. A vote for Donald Trump, a vote for peace at home and abroad or a vote for Hillary Clinton, a vote for war and human suffering.

Democrats need to realize what a hawk Hillary is before she gets the nomination. Because if it only happens after she gets the nomination, turnout will be quite poor for Democratic nominee Hillary.
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« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2015, 03:17:50 AM »

Trump could advocate for a stimulus and public healthcare and his followers would eat it up.

Remember: It's only socialism or "Pussy foreign policy" if Fox News tells you so.

Is that supposed to be a criticism? You lot should be happy about this.
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« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2015, 03:18:38 AM »

Soon the American people will have to make their choice. A vote for Donald Trump, a vote for peace at home and abroad or a vote for Hillary Clinton, a vote for war and human suffering.

Democrats need to realize what a hawk Hillary is before she gets the nomination. Because if it only happens after she gets the nomination, turnout will be quite poor for Democratic nominee Hillary.

remind me again what Bernie Sanders has been saying about his foreign policy views? Oh yes *crickets*
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bedstuy
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« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2015, 03:47:15 AM »

The great part was where Sneed criticized Trump for that and said he sounded like a Democrat.

Yes, I'm proud to say the Donald sounded like a Democrat there.  We believe in investing this country.  We believe you have to spend money to make money and we know there is a crumbling infrastructure that needs to be built back up.  America has had these generations where infrastructure took leaps, the building of the transcontinental railroad, the great dams and the TVA in the New Deal, the highway system, etc.  It's time for another. 

And, it's so illustrative that Republicans hate that idea.  They represent these vulture capitalists and old, angry Fox News watchers who will be dead in 20 or less years, so no real investment in the future.  Their vulture capitalist class sees America as a distressed asset, a takeover target for their Republican corporation.  Cut the "labor costs" IE jobs and quality of life for the people, rack up the debt, reward the CEOs and people at the top, use creative accounting, propaganda and lies to win over the media, and then get your golden parachute out when it all goes to hell.  Sneed did that with HP, Romney did that like 50 times at Bain, and Republicans want to do it to America, again.

The worst tactics of corporate America's worst, Enron, Bain Capital, Goldman Sachs, Phillip Morris, those are the tactics of this GOP.  They want short term rewards for the rich people and they believe in creative accounting and fraud, because that's quicker than building it honestly.  It's easier to use creative accounting to make your Q3 earnings look good, than it is to take the hit and deal with your problems.  It's easier to pretend climate change doesn't exist and sweep it under the rug, than it is to deal with it honestly. 

Or, if you don't like the leveraged buy-out and Wall Street metaphor, how about this.  Republicans want to treat the government like a pinata, break it and give all the candy inside to their friends.  Screw Republicans, they're garbage.
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Torie
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« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2015, 08:46:01 AM »

Yes,, Trump is right on this, at least as to the invasion in Iraq, and mission creep in Afghanistan. Perhaps there would be some merit in electing him POTUS if the year were 2000. But it isn't 2000. It's now.

You meant in 2004?

No 2000. After the invasion of Iraq, the Genie was out of the bottle. As Colin Powell said, once you break it, you own it. And we have "owned" the ensuing civil war in Iraq,  which goes hot and cold, but never ends, ever since. It was one of the most disastrous decisions ever made by a President.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2015, 09:01:19 AM »

Yes,, Trump is right on this, at least as to the invasion in Iraq, and mission creep in Afghanistan. Perhaps there would be some merit in electing him POTUS if the year were 2000. But it isn't 2000. It's now.

You meant in 2004?

No 2000. After the invasion of Iraq, the Genie was out of the bottle. As Colin Powell said, once you break it, you own it. And we have "owned" the ensuing civil war in Iraq,  which goes hot and cold, but never ends, ever since. It was one of the most disastrous decisions ever made by a President.

Well, either way, with regard to Trump, he never actually publicly opposed the Iraq War (or commented on it one way or the other) until 2004, so it's unclear what he actually would have done with regard to the country had he been elected president in 2000.  Given that he publicly floated the idea of naming John McCain as his SecDef during his aborted 2000 presidential campaign trial balloon period, he may well have had a rather "neocon-y" foreign policy back then.  Who knows?  Tongue
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Torie
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« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2015, 09:06:13 AM »
« Edited: December 16, 2015, 09:10:35 AM by Torie »

Yes,, Trump is right on this, at least as to the invasion in Iraq, and mission creep in Afghanistan. Perhaps there would be some merit in electing him POTUS if the year were 2000. But it isn't 2000. It's now.

You meant in 2004?

No 2000. After the invasion of Iraq, the Genie was out of the bottle. As Colin Powell said, once you break it, you own it. And we have "owned" the ensuing civil war in Iraq,  which goes hot and cold, but never ends, ever since. It was one of the most disastrous decisions ever made by a President.

Well, either way, with regard to Trump, he never actually publicly opposed the Iraq War (or commented on it one way or the other) until 2004, so it's unclear what he actually would have done with regard to the country had he been elected president in 2000.  Given that he publicly floated the idea of naming John McCain as his SecDef during his aborted 2000 presidential campaign trial balloon period, he may well have had a rather "neocon-y" foreign policy back then.  Who knows?  Tongue


OK, then he should not have been elected then. That's a relief! Smiley  Trump claims however that he opposed the invasion at the time the decision was made, implying that he said so publicly. Someone should have called him on that. Relying on hindsight to claim insight doesn't cut it.
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Bull Moose Base
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« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2015, 09:47:24 AM »

Soon the American people will have to make their choice. A vote for Donald Trump, a vote for peace at home and abroad or a vote for Hillary Clinton, a vote for war and human suffering.

Democrats need to realize what a hawk Hillary is before she gets the nomination. Because if it only happens after she gets the nomination, turnout will be quite poor for Democratic nominee Hillary.

remind me again what Bernie Sanders has been saying about his foreign policy views? Oh yes *crickets*

He's been saying what Lief is celebrating Trump saying: much of the mess in the Mideast today stems from the terrible decision to invade Iraq.
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Fuzzy Says: "Abolish NPR!"
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« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2015, 09:55:28 AM »

The great part was where Sneed criticized Trump for that and said he sounded like a Democrat.

Yes, I'm proud to say the Donald sounded like a Democrat there.  We believe in investing this country.  We believe you have to spend money to make money and we know there is a crumbling infrastructure that needs to be built back up.  America has had these generations where infrastructure took leaps, the building of the transcontinental railroad, the great dams and the TVA in the New Deal, the highway system, etc.  It's time for another. 

And, it's so illustrative that Republicans hate that idea.  They represent these vulture capitalists and old, angry Fox News watchers who will be dead in 20 or less years, so no real investment in the future.  Their vulture capitalist class sees America as a distressed asset, a takeover target for their Republican corporation.  Cut the "labor costs" IE jobs and quality of life for the people, rack up the debt, reward the CEOs and people at the top, use creative accounting, propaganda and lies to win over the media, and then get your golden parachute out when it all goes to hell.  Sneed did that with HP, Romney did that like 50 times at Bain, and Republicans want to do it to America, again.

The worst tactics of corporate America's worst, Enron, Bain Capital, Goldman Sachs, Phillip Morris, those are the tactics of this GOP.  They want short term rewards for the rich people and they believe in creative accounting and fraud, because that's quicker than building it honestly.  It's easier to use creative accounting to make your Q3 earnings look good, than it is to take the hit and deal with your problems.  It's easier to pretend climate change doesn't exist and sweep it under the rug, than it is to deal with it honestly. 

Or, if you don't like the leveraged buy-out and Wall Street metaphor, how about this.  Republicans want to treat the government like a pinata, break it and give all the candy inside to their friends. 
Screw Republicans, they're garbage.



Trump's core supporters are the Perot/Buchanan Republicans, most of whom can be classified as "paleoconservatives".  These are the Republicans who have called out the party for their corporate sell-outs on behalf of the "Cash Out America" program.  That's essentially what Bushism (as opposed to Reaganism) was; policies that allowed the investor classes to take their money and run from America without penalties.

BTW, Fiorina's comment on Trump's analysis shows that she's a complete and dangerous moron on domestic policy as well as foreign policy.
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Asian Nazi
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« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2015, 10:32:56 AM »

Soon the American people will have to make their choice. A vote for Donald Trump, a vote for peace at home and abroad or a vote for Hillary Clinton, a vote for war and human suffering.

Democrats need to realize what a hawk Hillary is before she gets the nomination. Because if it only happens after she gets the nomination, turnout will be quite poor for Democratic nominee Hillary.

remind me again what Bernie Sanders has been saying about his foreign policy views? Oh yes *crickets*

Because he's actually just as if not more hawkish than Clinton.  But don't let that stop Sandernistas from projecting their own views onto Jewish Jesus.
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