SE1-The Proper Punishment Act (debating)

[Former Senator Haslam2020]

The Proper Punishment Act of 2015:

1. Teens aged 14-16 who commit the acts of rape or murder shall receive adult charges.
2. If someone has participated in zoophillia, pedophillia, or rape (being the rapist) it shall forever be in their criminal record.

Sponsors: Haslam2020, Pingvin


Let's open up a debate!

[NeverAgain]

We have a system currently in place that punishes children differently than adults, because of hormonal and brain changes. That being said, the age of adulthood in Atlasia is 16, so I think half of Section One is invalid. For 14 + 15 year olds, I would disagree with placing them as adult sex offenders for mistakes done as a child. They should be properly punished under the Child Services, instead of Adult.

Is Part 2 a temporary or permanent act? This seems like an unneeded measure to be honest. I mean if the goal is rehabilitation, then punishing them for trying to restart their lives seems counter-productive. I believe strongly in punishing + treating sex offenders fairly, but this will only cause them to become even more of an outcast.

[Pingvin]

We have a system currently in place that punishes children differently than adults, because of hormonal and brain changes. That being said, the age of adulthood in Atlasia is 16, so I think half of Section One is invalid. For 14 + 15 year olds, I would disagree with placing them as adult sex offenders for mistakes done as a child. They should be properly punished under the Child Services, instead of Adult.

Is Part 2 a temporary or permanent act? This seems like an unneeded measure to be honest. I mean if the goal is rehabilitation, then punishing them for trying to restart their lives seems counter-productive. I believe strongly in punishing + treating sex offenders fairly, but this will only cause them to become even more of an outcast.

Hormonal and brain changes doesn't mean that they can't read penal code. Period. Young thugs shouldn't get away with their crimes just because their young.

And do you really believe in rehabilitation of sex offenders? We saw what happened in Sweden when they tried to do it and it failed.

[Blair]

We have a system currently in place that punishes children differently than adults, because of hormonal and brain changes. That being said, the age of adulthood in Atlasia is 16, so I think half of Section One is invalid. For 14 + 15 year olds, I would disagree with placing them as adult sex offenders for mistakes done as a child. They should be properly punished under the Child Services, instead of Adult.

Is Part 2 a temporary or permanent act? This seems like an unneeded measure to be honest. I mean if the goal is rehabilitation, then punishing them for trying to restart their lives seems counter-productive. I believe strongly in punishing + treating sex offenders fairly, but this will only cause them to become even more of an outcast.

Hormonal and brain changes doesn't mean that they can't read penal code. Period. Young thugs shouldn't get away with their crimes just because their young.

And do you really believe in rehabilitation of sex offenders? We saw what happened in Sweden when they tried to do it and it failed.

But what you're proposing opens them to getting murdered because they send their 17 girlfriend a picture on snapchat

[NeverAgain]

We have a system currently in place that punishes children differently than adults, because of hormonal and brain changes. That being said, the age of adulthood in Atlasia is 16, so I think half of Section One is invalid. For 14 + 15 year olds, I would disagree with placing them as adult sex offenders for mistakes done as a child. They should be properly punished under the Child Services, instead of Adult.

Is Part 2 a temporary or permanent act? This seems like an unneeded measure to be honest. I mean if the goal is rehabilitation, then punishing them for trying to restart their lives seems counter-productive. I believe strongly in punishing + treating sex offenders fairly, but this will only cause them to become even more of an outcast.

Hormonal and brain changes doesn't mean that they can't read penal code. Period. Young thugs shouldn't get away with their crimes just because their young.

And do you really believe in rehabilitation of sex offenders? We saw what happened in Sweden when they tried to do it and it failed.

First off, you are proposing letting children, and I say children, to be punished as an adult because they are "young thugs". We currently have a system in place to deal with child offenders of the law, I mean you are saying that there is no difference between a 14 year old and a 35 year old committing a crime. They would not be getting away with a crime, they would be punished severely, but to a punishment that suits them, not one that is set up for people over the age of 16, this is the reason we have Juvenile Detention.

I do believe in the rehabilitation of sex offenders, they are people too. Are you suggesting life imprisonment of sex offenders? There are medical and psychiatric rehabilitation that is extremely successful in helping sex offenders. What you are suggesting is a cruel reminder to all and to the person attempting to rehabilitate their lives.

[Leinad]

Lawn signs won't work because 1) not everyone has a lawn and 2) people can grow bushes. Any permanent or even temporary measure to notify people of these things would require enough legal acrobatics to fill an entire computer screen just to cover the loopholes. For example, what if someone has the sign on "their" lawn, yet stays in a friend's guest bedroom across town? Would you pay people to keep track of their average position in order to determine where and how to put the sign? What if gardening is a major factor in their rehabilitation, and the sign disrupts that, sending them spiraling back to where they once were? (Okay, the last one is a stretch matched only by military-strength elastic, but you get my point.)

And even if you find a way to put that section together loophole free, I'd suggest the wording be more like: "...committed zoophilia, pedophilia, or rape..." instead of "...participated in zoophillia, pedophillia, or rape (being the rapist)..." The part within parentheses does an okay job fixing the ambiguity, but it would be better with no ambiguity at all. Less words, more clarity.

I'll hold back comment on lots of the stuff (i.e. the important parts), although criminal justice does certainly interest me. (It's easier to make off-the-cuff pedantic comments on lawn signs and proper wording than the heavier stuff.)

Also, I'd love to see what Steelers says, given that he's, uh, literally the only Legislator not to have sponsored this bill.

[Ex-Assemblyman Steelers]

I cant support this bill and i agree with Mr. Speaker Never Again. In this moment i dont like where South going, first that terrible Anti-minor death act, now we want to sent kids to jail. I am afraid to see what would be Mr. Haslam next bill.

[Former Senator Haslam2020]

I cant support this bill and i agree with Mr. Speaker Never Again. In this moment i dont like where South going, first that terrible Anti-minor death act, now we want to sent kids to jail. I am afraid to see what would be Mr. Haslam next bill.

Thanks for the kind words, and you think we should give leniency to people who rape and murder? Just because they are teenagers doesn't mean they aren't capable of cognitive thought. I support this bill to charge these young thugs for what they are.

[Former Senator Haslam2020]

And my next bill is a bill for getting kids adopted fyi XDDD perhaps take a look at it, something everyone can get behind.

[NeverAgain]

I cant support this bill and i agree with Mr. Speaker Never Again. In this moment i dont like where South going, first that terrible Anti-minor death act, now we want to sent kids to jail. I am afraid to see what would be Mr. Haslam next bill.

Thanks for the kind words, and you think we should give leniency to people who rape and murder? Just because they are teenagers doesn't mean they aren't capable of cognitive thought. I support this bill to charge these young thugs for what they are.

As I said before, these aren't "young thugs", they are rapists or murderers under 18 (should be 16, the Atlasian legal adult age) who should be punished to the fullest extent of the law as a minor. We have a system in place that punishes these children differently, as they are not adults. I see no reason to change the status quo as it is working perfectly fine to us in the Mideast. I would suggest an amendment for Section One for changing the "children aged 14-18" to be 14 + 15 as ages 16, 17, and 18 are already treated as adults by federal law.

[Leinad]

Steelers: Kids already get sent to jail for stuff like that. Well, juvenile detention, but still.

Misinformation, whether intentional or, in this case, unintentional, is often the best way to ruin an otherwise constructive debate.

The question, I suppose, is when does someone become as "capable of cognitive thought" as an adult? To deserve the full punishment, that is. It's a hard problem to figure out, as I'm neither a rapist, murderer, or psychologist and thus have a hard time imagining their thought process. I suppose most people who commit horrible crimes like that are someone messed up mentally already (mental illness or something like that), so that clouds their thinking. (To clarify: I'm not saying that they therefore deserve to be given more lenient sentences. On the contrary, it makes their imprisonment more crucial, for the protection of others. It's just food for thought.)

[Former Senator Haslam2020]

Should we open this up to a vote?

[Leinad]

Errors:

-The lawn sign part makes no sense, as it can easily be loopholed as I previously said.

-The wording of section 2, even if it's kept, is somewhat clumsy (again, I detailed this previously).

-Teens aged 16-18 already are punished as adults. Because, in Atlasia, the age of majority is 16.


I mean, I also see the fact that if a 14 or 15 year old does this, they're still going to get a hefty penalty. They aren't running free. Sorry, but I think I'll need more convincing if I'm going to sign this.