Cologne: Up to 1,000 men of Arab and North African origin sexually assault women

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

There is something really weird about this story, and it's not just because i am your typical naive left-leftist - there's something very logistically strange bout the various different reports. I suppose as reports flesh in the stuff we don't know, we may see a more complete picture - like what relation these people have to migrants.

[Tender Branson]

This is also something that Trump could use in his next ads:

"Recently in Germany: hordes of illegal Arab/African migrants rape and abuse native German women. With Donald Trump as President, this won't happen. I will cleanse America from these Muslim mass rapists, take their oil money and deport them. I will make AmeriKKKa white great again !".

LOL, Trump actually posted something about this on his Twitter page:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Gustaf]

How horrific. Let's hope those responsible are swiftly found and dealt with, and those seeking asylum/migration are made to understand the vital importance of consent in modern German society. Although if it is Moroccans (rather than Syrians etc.) then it's a high chance these are second-generation migrants, which suggests something has gone disturbingly wrong with local integration in the area.

I do worry about Cologne though. Isn't it Koln where a mayoral candidate got stabbed by a nazi? And now they are apparently the epicentre of an organised rape gang? This could be a pretty ominous sign.

Not sure how it is in Germany but in Sweden we have a lot of Moroccan young men/teens who have showed up and are sort of roaming the streets.

One such gang were convicted of gangrape just a few days ago. It was a particularly brutal act with death threats, choking and repeated penetratitions so the judge hauled out sentences of as much as 9 months for them. Except for one guy who got off because they couldn't prove he was old enough to be sentenced.

[dead0man]

ugggg

[afleitch]

The world over, men are essentially allowed to do as they wish and define social norms, while women are held to ‘standards’. This manifests itself in a variety of different ways. Issues with the harassment of women is not unique to ‘Middle Eastern migrants’; there are issues in India, very public issues in Japan and issues in some ‘machismo’ European countries. There is however a specific problem here and that is that there is a reluctance to address this issue if it’s not nativist in origin. In the UK , campaigns against domestic abuse and violence against women even with government and institutional backing are essentially blunted when trying to address these issues in relation to black and ethnic minority (BEM) communities. The same is true of campaigns against homophobia. There is a cultural and religious component to the problem that isn’t addressed through generic campaigns and outreach.

If people are coming from male dominated, segregated and sexually repressed countries there has to be an attempt at actual education. It cannot be left to the settled migrant community to take the initiative because unfortunately, you will often be faced with similar views from within, particularly when it comes to respecting women. Women are not objects, women will wear what they wish, talk with whom they wish, drink, gays will hold hands, people will kiss and show affection. How anyone dresses or acts is not an invitation. Permissiveness is permission based. There has to be punishment to protect women and education to protect everyone.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The exact form that rape and sexual assault takes in different societies seems to differ substantially, which I suppose is technically an interesting fact (but urgh). Scumbags raised in a Western cultural setting seem to be more individualistic in their activities than scumbags raised in different settings. In theory the latter ought to be quite easy to punish in an advanced urbanised society, though as plenty of stories over the past few years have demonstrated that isn't always so.

[Tender Branson]

How horrific. Let's hope those responsible are swiftly found and dealt with, and those seeking asylum/migration are made to understand the vital importance of consent in modern German society. Although if it is Moroccans (rather than Syrians etc.) then it's a high chance these are second-generation migrants, which suggests something has gone disturbingly wrong with local integration in the area.

I do worry about Cologne though. Isn't it Koln where a mayoral candidate got stabbed by a nazi? And now they are apparently the epicentre of an organised rape gang? This could be a pretty ominous sign.

Not sure how it is in Germany but in Sweden we have a lot of Moroccan young men/teens who have showed up and are sort of roaming the streets.

One such gang were convicted of gangrape just a few days ago. It was a particularly brutal act with death threats, choking and repeated penetratitions so the judge hauled out sentences of as much as 9 months for them. Except for one guy who got off because they couldn't prove he was old enough to be sentenced.

Not only in Germany or Sweden: It's no secret that North African and Middle-Eastern (asylum seekers) are turning central railway stations in bigger (Austrian) cities into quasi law-less areas, where they can deal with drugs and commit heavy crimes such as murder and rape - with the police looking on (instead of deporting these assholes).

Innsbruck train station for example is a "worst case", a so-called hotspot of North African and Middle-Eastern immigrant crime, with the article below describing it as "maybe Austria's most dangerous train station":

http://diepresse.com/home/panorama/oesterreich/4740045/Innsbruck_Osterreichs-gefaehrlichster-Bahnhof

The best line in the article is this one:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

"The persons involved [in the crimes] are overwhelmingly people with an asylum seeker request which was denied by authorities".

(If there are drug dealers/rapists etc. whose asylum application was denied, why exactly are they still there comitting more crimes, rather than being deported immediately - like the law requires ?)

[palandio]

The "Antänzer" gangs of Cologne that many media suspect to be involved into recent events, fit exactly into the picture drawn by Tender:

They have arrived from the Maghreb (mostly Morocco) some years ago, in most cases their asylum request has been denied by the authorities and now they have no legal status in Germany. But even if they are convicted of crimes like theft, robbery or assault, they cannot be deported, because they are sans papiers, i.e. they have no valid documents. In fact Germany is deporting a very low number of people altogether.

I'm not so sure about the "teaching them what consent is" thing. These people have been living in Germany for some years. They are using sexual harassment to distract the victims from the theft of wallets and cell phones and sometimes they go further, but it's always a way of humiliating their victims and of exerting power. They know exactly what they're doing and they have learnt that they won't be punished.

[afleitch]

Good balanced article;

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/06/tensions-rise-in-germany-over-handling-of-mass-sexual-assaults-in-cologne

[Frozen Sky Ever Why]

At least!

Well, as I said, they need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, but in addition to that, they also need to be taught the meaning and value of consent, and if they're repeat offenders, need to face serious charges.

How about just not letting them in the country in the first place?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

At least!

Well, as I said, they need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, but in addition to that, they also need to be taught the meaning and value of consent, and if they're repeat offenders, need to face serious charges.

How about just not letting them in the country in the first place?

I thought conservatives were against cloistering oneself in a "self space" where you can ignore reality?

[Frozen Sky Ever Why]

At least!

Well, as I said, they need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, but in addition to that, they also need to be taught the meaning and value of consent, and if they're repeat offenders, need to face serious charges.

How about just not letting them in the country in the first place?

I thought conservatives were against cloistering oneself in a "self space" where you can ignore reality?

Reality? Reality is that women are being assaulted by immigrants, immigrants that never should have been let in because of their violent culture.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

People are being assaulted (sexually and otherwise) everywhere, in and out of our borders. The proper way to deal with it is through emphasis of individual rights (rather than assimilation into culture OR cultural relativist strands of multiculturalism) and attacking patriarchal attitudes within all societies to eradicate all institutionalised sexual violence, not hiding within the safe space of one's nation state's borders pretending everything is perfectly fine outside of them. Because that is just pushing problems down the line.

[Beezer]

They, along with the mainstream media, stayed quiet on this topic for 3 whole days hoping it would blow over because the perpetrators weren't white cisprivileged men.

That's a slanderous assumption which comes awfully close to being a conspiracy theory.

The fact is that this wasn't widespread knowledge to politicians until yesterday... even the Cologne Police seems to have been unaware of and suprised by it until the media started to report on it. And when it was first reported it was blown out of proportions by the media ("1,000 men" and so).

Biggest newspaper in Cologne reported on it in great detail on January 1st, citing the police as well so the claim that the police was blissfully unaware until Jan 4/5 is rather odd and without basis.

"Blown out of proportion"...lol, if someone trips a migrant (disgusting I agree) it's headline news for days but the mass molestation of literally 100+ women is apparently barely newsworthy in the eyes of some.

[Zioneer]

Dunno if these articles have been cited yet, but there's a few with differing views on this issue as far as I can tell (I don't read German, someone on a different forum who does paraphrased them for me).

http://www.abendblatt.de/hamburg/hamburg-mitte/article206885465/Wie-in-Koeln-Weitere-Anzeigen-nach-sexuellen-Uebergriffen.html#modal


http://www.derwesten.de/region/koelner-polizei-fasst-verdaechtige-nach-silvester-antanztrick-id11424149.html]


http://www.mimikama.at/allgemein/antanztrick-belstigung-und-diebstahl-in-kln/


http://www.netz-gegen-nazis.de/artikel/silvesternacht-k%C3%B6ln-organisiertes-verbrechen-nicht-enthemmte-fl%C3%BCchtlinge-10812

[Green Line]

How horrific. Let's hope those responsible are swiftly found and dealt with, and those seeking asylum/migration are made to understand the vital importance of consent in modern German society. Although if it is Moroccans (rather than Syrians etc.) then it's a high chance these are second-generation migrants, which suggests something has gone disturbingly wrong with local integration in the area.

I do worry about Cologne though. Isn't it Koln where a mayoral candidate got stabbed by a nazi? And now they are apparently the epicentre of an organised rape gang? This could be a pretty ominous sign.

Not sure how it is in Germany but in Sweden we have a lot of Moroccan young men/teens who have showed up and are sort of roaming the streets.

One such gang were convicted of gangrape just a few days ago. It was a particularly brutal act with death threats, choking and repeated penetratitions so the judge hauled out sentences of as much as 9 months for them. Except for one guy who got off because they couldn't prove he was old enough to be sentenced.

9 months... are you kidding?  9 months for gangrape and death threats??  I can't believe that's a real sentence.

[DC Al Fine]

How horrific. Let's hope those responsible are swiftly found and dealt with, and those seeking asylum/migration are made to understand the vital importance of consent in modern German society. Although if it is Moroccans (rather than Syrians etc.) then it's a high chance these are second-generation migrants, which suggests something has gone disturbingly wrong with local integration in the area.

I do worry about Cologne though. Isn't it Koln where a mayoral candidate got stabbed by a nazi? And now they are apparently the epicentre of an organised rape gang? This could be a pretty ominous sign.

Not sure how it is in Germany but in Sweden we have a lot of Moroccan young men/teens who have showed up and are sort of roaming the streets.

One such gang were convicted of gangrape just a few days ago. It was a particularly brutal act with death threats, choking and repeated penetratitions so the judge hauled out sentences of as much as 9 months for them. Except for one guy who got off because they couldn't prove he was old enough to be sentenced.

9 months... are you kidding?  9 months for gangrape and death threats??  I can't believe that's a real sentence.

Lol Sweden

[DavidB.]

9 months... are you kidding?  9 months for gangrape and death threats??  I can't believe that's a real sentence.

I assumed Gustaf was indicating sarcasm with the words "as much as". I hope that was true, because you are right: 9 months is ridiculous.

[Beezer]

Oh boy, Die Welt is now reporting that police officers have said most of those arrested were asylum seekers that had recently entered the country...

http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article150735341/Die-meisten-waren-frisch-eingereiste-Asylbewerber.html

[palandio]

I have to admit that probably I was wrong when I suspected the Moroccan thieves.

If these reports are true (and likely they are) this is a complete disaster for our immigration politics (resp. the lack thereof). And noone will be able to keep these informations from the public, although many good-minded politicians and journalists would try, if it was possible.

[Cory]

Not sure how it is in Germany but in Sweden we have a lot of Moroccan young men/teens who have showed up and are sort of roaming the streets.

One such gang were convicted of gangrape just a few days ago. It was a particularly brutal act with death threats, choking and repeated penetratitions so the judge hauled out sentences of as much as 9 months for them. Except for one guy who got off because they couldn't prove he was old enough to be sentenced.

Well, you can't say you weren't warned.

[rob in cal]

    I wonder if a Pym Fortuyn type political leader will emerge out of this. Someone who might come from a socially liberal political stance but who fears that the ethnic cultural and religious transformation of Germany is not good for such social liberalism.
    I know all of us on this board are completely shocked that some of the perpetrators might be recent asylum seekers.

[ingemann]

   I wonder if a Pym Fortuyn type political leader will emerge out of this. Someone who might come from a socially liberal political stance but who fears that the ethnic cultural and religious transformation of Germany is not good for such social liberalism.
    I know all of us on this board are completely shocked that some of the perpetrators might be recent asylum seekers.

I must admit I'm slightly surprised, I really thought they would be in Europe a little longer before this happened. A thing I wondered about why is these dangerous train stations happening in Austria and Germany and not in as example Denmark? I really have no idea whether it's because of different policies toward vagrancy, different restrictions on asylum seeker or it's just purely random?

[Beezer]

In other news, 4 Syrians (two of them refugees living in Germany) rape two 14 and 15 year old girls. http://www.bild.de/news/inland/vergewaltigung/vier-maenner-in-weil-am-rhein-wegen-vergewaltigung-von-zwei-maedchen-44053240.bild.html

[DavidB.]

A thing I wondered about why is these dangerous train stations happening in Austria and Germany and not in as example Denmark? I really have no idea whether it's because of different policies toward vagrancy, different restrictions on asylum seeker or it's just purely random?

Very good question. This doesn't happen in the Netherlands either (not yet, at least...).