Opinion of Obama's gun speech today

[Slander and/or Libel]

Whenever I hear about "responsible gun owners," I think about all of the people killed in accidental discharges, or killed when a kid gets hold of an unsecured gun. There are lots of those incidents, but not many when viewed as a percentage of the number of guns in the country. But for every time an accidental discharge kills someone, there have to be many, many times when an accidental discharge injures someone or misses altogether. For every time a kid gets his hands on an unsecured gun and kills himself or someone else, there have to be countless other times when kids get their hands on unsecured guns and don't manage to kill people.

We don't have statistics on this. We can't. But I'd bet that a whole lot less gun owners fit any reasonable definition of "responsible" than we should be comfortable with.

[Rockefeller GOP]

The gun nuts are freaking sickos, as they prove in this very thread. Their masculinity is so damn fragile, they'd rather have children slaughtered in mass shootings than have to find a new, less dangerous phallic symbol to empower themselves with. Sickos.

I don't think these common sense reforms will have any effect whatsoever on the safety of innocents, but I suppose it is worth a try.

As long as I can keep the one gun we have in case of home invasion, I don't care what you call me.  In that rare event, I WILL be able to protect my family.  If you somehow come to the conclusion I'm only trumpeting my fragile manhood, wow; but whatever.

[Penelope]

The gun nuts are fucking sickos, as they prove in this very thread. Their masculinity is so damn fragile, they'd rather have children slaughtered in mass shootings than have to find a new, less dangerous phallic symbol to empower themselves with. Sickos.

I don't think these common sense reforms will have any effect whatsoever on the safety of innocents, but I suppose it is worth a try.

As long as I can keep the one gun we have in case of home invasion, I don't care what you call me.  In that rare event, I WILL be able to protect my family.  If you somehow come to the conclusion I'm only trumpeting my fragile manhood, wow; but whatever.

Pretty sure Leif, even in TRUMP mode, isn't referring to normal people who buy a gun to protect themselves from burglars or other intruders. More like people who think that owning 3 assault rifles is normal and think that having to go through any kind of background check or safety training is GUBMIT TYRANNY.

[tschandler]

Nice to see the President of the United States straight up lie to push an agenda. 

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

The mass shootings obscure the real problem with our overly lax gun laws.  I'm more concerned about the 99% of gun deaths that happen one or two at a time than I am with spree shootings that make the news.  Curbing even 5% of the non-spree gun deaths would save far more lives than if we were able to entirely eliminate spree shootings.

Since you're up on the topic of mass shootings, I assume, could the Sandy Hook shooter's mom buy a gun under the new proposed gun regs?  (not rhetorical)

[Slander and/or Libel]

The mass shootings obscure the real problem with our overly lax gun laws.  I'm more concerned about the 99% of gun deaths that happen one or two at a time than I am with spree shootings that make the news.  Curbing even 5% of the non-spree gun deaths would save far more lives than if we were able to entirely eliminate spree shootings.

Since you're up on the topic of mass shootings, I assume, could the Sandy Hook shooter's mom buy a gun under the new proposed gun regs?  (not rhetorical)

I assume the regs don't let dead people buy guns.

[tschandler]

The gun nuts are fucking sickos, as they prove in this very thread. Their masculinity is so damn fragile, they'd rather have children slaughtered in mass shootings than have to find a new, less dangerous phallic symbol to empower themselves with. Sickos.

I don't think these common sense reforms will have any effect whatsoever on the safety of innocents, but I suppose it is worth a try.

As long as I can keep the one gun we have in case of home invasion, I don't care what you call me.  In that rare event, I WILL be able to protect my family.  If you somehow come to the conclusion I'm only trumpeting my fragile manhood, wow; but whatever.

Pretty sure Leif, even in TRUMP mode, isn't referring to normal people who buy a gun to protect themselves from burglars or other intruders. More like people who think that owning 3 assault rifles is normal and think that having to go through any kind of background check or safety training is GUBMIT TYRANNY.

You know all legal business to person sales go through background checks already?  If you buy a gun from a company over the internet it is shipped to a local FFL dealer who runs the background check? 

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

The mass shootings obscure the real problem with our overly lax gun laws.  I'm more concerned about the 99% of gun deaths that happen one or two at a time than I am with spree shootings that make the news.  Curbing even 5% of the non-spree gun deaths would save far more lives than if we were able to entirely eliminate spree shootings.

Since you're up on the topic of mass shootings, I assume, could the Sandy Hook shooter's mom buy a gun under the new proposed gun regs?  (not rhetorical)

I assume the regs don't let dead people buy guns.

Skirting the issue, eh?  That means she probably could have purchased the weapons used had these new restrictions been in place pre-Sandy Hook.  Thanks, Figgy!

[tschandler]

The mass shootings obscure the real problem with our overly lax gun laws.  I'm more concerned about the 99% of gun deaths that happen one or two at a time than I am with spree shootings that make the news.  Curbing even 5% of the non-spree gun deaths would save far more lives than if we were able to entirely eliminate spree shootings.

Since you're up on the topic of mass shootings, I assume, could the Sandy Hook shooter's mom buy a gun under the new proposed gun regs?  (not rhetorical)

I assume the regs don't let dead people buy guns.

Democrats have never had problems with letting dead people vote.

[Slander and/or Libel]

The mass shootings obscure the real problem with our overly lax gun laws.  I'm more concerned about the 99% of gun deaths that happen one or two at a time than I am with spree shootings that make the news.  Curbing even 5% of the non-spree gun deaths would save far more lives than if we were able to entirely eliminate spree shootings.

Since you're up on the topic of mass shootings, I assume, could the Sandy Hook shooter's mom buy a gun under the new proposed gun regs?  (not rhetorical)

I assume the regs don't let dead people buy guns.

Skirting the issue, eh?  That means she probably could have purchased the weapons used had these new restrictions been in place pre-Sandy Hook.  Thanks, Figgy!

Glad to see you're taking my snarky comment as somehow authoritative on the subject of an executive order I haven't yet read in whole or in part.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

The mass shootings obscure the real problem with our overly lax gun laws.  I'm more concerned about the 99% of gun deaths that happen one or two at a time than I am with spree shootings that make the news.  Curbing even 5% of the non-spree gun deaths would save far more lives than if we were able to entirely eliminate spree shootings.

Since you're up on the topic of mass shootings, I assume, could the Sandy Hook shooter's mom buy a gun under the new proposed gun regs?  (not rhetorical)

I assume the regs don't let dead people buy guns.

Skirting the issue, eh?  That means she probably could have purchased the weapons used had these new restrictions been in place pre-Sandy Hook.  Thanks, Figgy!

Glad to see you're taking my snarky comment as somehow authoritative on the subject of an executive order I haven't yet read in whole or in part.

Fair enough.  I would like an answer to my question though. 

[Torie]

The mass shootings obscure the real problem with our overly lax gun laws.  I'm more concerned about the 99% of gun deaths that happen one or two at a time than I am with spree shootings that make the news.  Curbing even 5% of the non-spree gun deaths would save far more lives than if we were able to entirely eliminate spree shootings.

Since you're up on the topic of mass shootings, I assume, could the Sandy Hook shooter's mom buy a gun under the new proposed gun regs?  (not rhetorical)

I assume the regs don't let dead people buy guns.

Skirting the issue, eh?  That means she probably could have purchased the weapons used had these new restrictions been in place pre-Sandy Hook.  Thanks, Figgy!

Glad to see you're taking my snarky comment as somehow authoritative on the subject of an executive order I haven't yet read in whole or in part.

Fair enough.  I would like an answer to my question though.  

The answer of course is that these regulations are mostly toothless. I read somewhere, that it turns out with these background checks, that 98% of them turn out to be mistakes, and the denial of the gun purchase has to be rescinded. So the administration of all of this currently is a mess, apparently. And properly administered, such regulations would save lives involved with impulse killings, or hot blood killings, where somebody gets mad at a relative or whatever on a temporary basis over something. Or with respect to folks who buy guns, who are not instructed how to keep their kids from getting their hands on them, and hurting themselves or somebody else (I think one should have training before being allowed to buy a gun). It won't stop killings where more premeditation is involved.

[tschandler]

I find it interesting when people who have never been around guns talk about them.  Such as your training comments Torie.  Gun culture is all about training and safety.  Never point a gun at something you don't intend to kill.  Assume all guns are loaded.  Before you shoot know what is behind you. 

[Slander and/or Libel]

I find it interesting when people who have never been around guns talk about them.  Such as your training comments Torie.  Gun culture is all about training and safety.  Never point a gun at something you don't intend to kill.  Assume all guns are loaded.  Before you shoot know what is behind you. 

Yes, this is what gun culture is supposed to be about. That doesn't stop us from reading headline after headline after headline about kids getting hold of guns, people accidentally discharging weapons they forgot to check, etc.

[tschandler]

I find it interesting when people who have never been around guns talk about them.  Such as your training comments Torie.  Gun culture is all about training and safety.  Never point a gun at something you don't intend to kill.  Assume all guns are loaded.  Before you shoot know what is behind you. 

Yes, this is what gun culture is supposed to be about. That doesn't stop us from reading headline after headline after headline about kids getting hold of guns, people accidentally discharging weapons they forgot to check, etc.

People are going to be idiots, the same things that happen with cars or alcohol.  But the problem is trying to take those anecdotal stories as the reality. 

[Slander and/or Libel]

I find it interesting when people who have never been around guns talk about them.  Such as your training comments Torie.  Gun culture is all about training and safety.  Never point a gun at something you don't intend to kill.  Assume all guns are loaded.  Before you shoot know what is behind you. 

Yes, this is what gun culture is supposed to be about. That doesn't stop us from reading headline after headline after headline about kids getting hold of guns, people accidentally discharging weapons they forgot to check, etc.

People are going to be idiots, the same things that happen with cars or alcohol.  But the problem is trying to take those anecdotal stories as the reality. 

Those stories are certainly reality. Representative? Probably not. But they're absolutely real.

And remember, for every time we hear about somebody accidentally killing someone or a kid getting hold of an unsecured gun and shooting himself with it, there are bound to be countless examples of the same thing happening that we don't hear about because nobody died. My wife has a friend who almost killed himself cleaning a weapon he thought wasn't loaded. We didn't hear about it because he didn't kill himself. Anecdote, yes, but once again, it only stands to reason that there are several orders of magnitude more incidents of irresponsibility than we hear about in the news.

[tschandler]

I find it interesting when people who have never been around guns talk about them.  Such as your training comments Torie.  Gun culture is all about training and safety.  Never point a gun at something you don't intend to kill.  Assume all guns are loaded.  Before you shoot know what is behind you. 

Yes, this is what gun culture is supposed to be about. That doesn't stop us from reading headline after headline after headline about kids getting hold of guns, people accidentally discharging weapons they forgot to check, etc.

People are going to be idiots, the same things that happen with cars or alcohol.  But the problem is trying to take those anecdotal stories as the reality. 

Those stories are certainly reality. Representative? Probably not. But they're absolutely real.

And remember, for every time we hear about somebody accidentally killing someone or a kid getting hold of an unsecured gun and shooting himself with it, there are bound to be countless examples of the same thing happening that we don't hear about because nobody died. My wife has a friend who almost killed himself cleaning a weapon he thought wasn't loaded. We didn't hear about it because he didn't kill himself. Anecdote, yes, but once again, it only stands to reason that there are several orders of magnitude more incidents of irresponsibility than we hear about in the news.

That is a perfect example of a person NOT following the basic rules of gun safety.  You never assume a gun is unloaded.  First time someone hands me a gun or I pick one up you work the action to unload it. 

[Slander and/or Libel]

I find it interesting when people who have never been around guns talk about them.  Such as your training comments Torie.  Gun culture is all about training and safety.  Never point a gun at something you don't intend to kill.  Assume all guns are loaded.  Before you shoot know what is behind you. 

Yes, this is what gun culture is supposed to be about. That doesn't stop us from reading headline after headline after headline about kids getting hold of guns, people accidentally discharging weapons they forgot to check, etc.

People are going to be idiots, the same things that happen with cars or alcohol.  But the problem is trying to take those anecdotal stories as the reality. 

Those stories are certainly reality. Representative? Probably not. But they're absolutely real.

And remember, for every time we hear about somebody accidentally killing someone or a kid getting hold of an unsecured gun and shooting himself with it, there are bound to be countless examples of the same thing happening that we don't hear about because nobody died. My wife has a friend who almost killed himself cleaning a weapon he thought wasn't loaded. We didn't hear about it because he didn't kill himself. Anecdote, yes, but once again, it only stands to reason that there are several orders of magnitude more incidents of irresponsibility than we hear about in the news.

That is a perfect example of a person NOT following the basic rules of gun safety.  You never assume a gun is unloaded.  First time someone hands me a gun or I pick one up you work the action to unload it. 

Yes. I understand this. Nothing I said contradicts that. I'm saying that just asserting that gun culture is all about gun safety doesn't mean that everybody handling a gun, or owning a gun, is at all times following that to the letter.

[tschandler]

I find it interesting when people who have never been around guns talk about them.  Such as your training comments Torie.  Gun culture is all about training and safety.  Never point a gun at something you don't intend to kill.  Assume all guns are loaded.  Before you shoot know what is behind you. 

Yes, this is what gun culture is supposed to be about. That doesn't stop us from reading headline after headline after headline about kids getting hold of guns, people accidentally discharging weapons they forgot to check, etc.

People are going to be idiots, the same things that happen with cars or alcohol.  But the problem is trying to take those anecdotal stories as the reality. 

Those stories are certainly reality. Representative? Probably not. But they're absolutely real.

And remember, for every time we hear about somebody accidentally killing someone or a kid getting hold of an unsecured gun and shooting himself with it, there are bound to be countless examples of the same thing happening that we don't hear about because nobody died. My wife has a friend who almost killed himself cleaning a weapon he thought wasn't loaded. We didn't hear about it because he didn't kill himself. Anecdote, yes, but once again, it only stands to reason that there are several orders of magnitude more incidents of irresponsibility than we hear about in the news.

That is a perfect example of a person NOT following the basic rules of gun safety.  You never assume a gun is unloaded.  First time someone hands me a gun or I pick one up you work the action to unload it. 

Yes. I understand this. Nothing I said contradicts that. I'm saying that just asserting that gun culture is all about gun safety doesn't mean that everybody handling a gun, or owning a gun, is at all times following that to the letter.

Just like everyone driving a car isn't going to follow traffic laws.  But still it speaks to Torie's and others on the forum's lack of gun knowledge that they believe a lack of gun safety is the norm or the accepted status quo.

[Torie]

I find it interesting when people who have never been around guns talk about them.  Such as your training comments Torie.  Gun culture is all about training and safety.  Never point a gun at something you don't intend to kill.  Assume all guns are loaded.  Before you shoot know what is behind you. 

Yes, this is what gun culture is supposed to be about. That doesn't stop us from reading headline after headline after headline about kids getting hold of guns, people accidentally discharging weapons they forgot to check, etc.

People are going to be idiots, the same things that happen with cars or alcohol.  But the problem is trying to take those anecdotal stories as the reality. 

Those stories are certainly reality. Representative? Probably not. But they're absolutely real.

And remember, for every time we hear about somebody accidentally killing someone or a kid getting hold of an unsecured gun and shooting himself with it, there are bound to be countless examples of the same thing happening that we don't hear about because nobody died. My wife has a friend who almost killed himself cleaning a weapon he thought wasn't loaded. We didn't hear about it because he didn't kill himself. Anecdote, yes, but once again, it only stands to reason that there are several orders of magnitude more incidents of irresponsibility than we hear about in the news.

That is a perfect example of a person NOT following the basic rules of gun safety.  You never assume a gun is unloaded.  First time someone hands me a gun or I pick one up you work the action to unload it. 

Yes. I understand this. Nothing I said contradicts that. I'm saying that just asserting that gun culture is all about gun safety doesn't mean that everybody handling a gun, or owning a gun, is at all times following that to the letter.

Just like everyone driving a car isn't going to follow traffic laws.  But still it speaks to Torie's and others on the forum's lack of gun knowledge that they believe a lack of gun safety is the norm or the accepted status quo.

I didn't claim that lack of gun safety is the norm. What I said, is that folks being required to demonstrate that they understand how to use guns, can reasonably be expected to save some lives, or personal injuries, due to negligence or lack of knowledge, at the margins. And I think the NRA does good work when it comes to offering such instruction.

[7,052,770]

What % of shootings (accidental or intentional, including suicides) are done by the hardened criminals who know how to get illegal black market guns and have the means to do so?

Right-wingers/libertarians always claim "no need for gun laws because the CRIMINALS will still get guns anyway!!!" and they're right in a sense that background checks and the like aren't going to prevent the career criminals with black market connections from getting the guns. But I suspect they don't account for the vast majority of shootings like the Right tries to portray.

(I'm actually asking BTW. I don't know the answer, and I'd like to.)

[Vosem]

Alas, crying in public will have exactly the opposite effect of winning this war of public opinion against the gun nuts average citizens that value their Constitutional rights.  The only people moved by Obama's crocodile tears are the type of people that agree with him about this maddening overblown situation anyway.

I still wet the bed most nights.

Do not edit my posts to reflect your disgusting ideology ever again.

There's an easy way to ensure he never edits your posts again -- just stop posting!

[Free Bird]

Alas, crying in public will have exactly the opposite effect of winning this war of public opinion against the gun nuts average citizens that value their Constitutional rights.  The only people moved by Obama's crocodile tears are the type of people that agree with him about this maddening overblown situation anyway.

I still wet the bed most nights.

Do not edit my posts to reflect your disgusting ideology ever again.

What's making me? And what exactly is wrong with my ideology?

[Free Bird]

Yes, yes. It is a pressing issue. Damn the fact that almost all of the shootings take place in crossroads for the drug war with lots of gun control to begin with. Take out the suicides and self defenses and we're as safe as Canada! If anything, make it EASIER to get a gun. Criminals will buy their guns on the black market, so it won't matter.

I'm not really sure what you think that graph proves. It certainly doesn't support your argument that more guns somehow decreases shooting deaths. So what's the point? That because violent crimes have ticked downwards slightly since 2009 we should never ever talk about gun control ever again? Despite the clever graphwork, that's still a lot of deaths. And why exactly shouldn't we consider suicides and accidental deaths as well?

It's the fact that it's declining and are mainly concentrated in areas with high gun control. And to answer another post, there's no such thing as the gunshow loophole. There ARE background checks at them.

[Free Bird]

The NRA doesn't receive one penny of public funding, leave them alone.

Whyever should that be a reason to leave them alone?

And please do explain how the Second Amendment protects the gunshow loophole.

Yes FreedomHawk has used that weird rhetoric before. Makes me lol though - "leave North Korea alone! They have never received public funding!"

I honestly don't know what position you are in to talk about this subject at all considering the UK's crime rate is astronomically higher than the US. And I still fail to understand what's wrong with a group that wants to protect their rights and teach responsibility. North Korea is a horrible strawman.