Radical-left Jew helps PA in killing Palestinians who sell land to Jews

[DavidB.]

Can't make this stuff up.

A radical left-wing Israeli Jew, Ezra Nawi (63), helps the Palestinian Authority in killing Palestinians who sell land to Jews. He finds out which Palestinians are interested in selling land to Jews and reports these people to the Palestinian authorities, who then arrest these Palestinians. Nawi knows this, as he was taped saying: "Straight away I give their pictures and phone numbers to the Preventive Security Force. The Palestinian Authority catches them and kills them. But before it kills them, they get beat up a lot." Reportedly, Nawi was aided by a guy from "human rights organization" B'Tselem...

It became even crazier when B'Tselem officially approved of this, saying that "this is the only legitimate channel for a Palestinian", even if it also said it "opposes all execution", which is a bit like saying you want your wife to get pregnant but don't want her to have a child. How this organization is still considered a human rights organization is truly beyond me.

This story literally made me feel sick in my stomach.

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

I am kinda scared to post anything in that topic :I

[Hnv1]

A. He was just bragging from what I heard that land seller scum is alive and kicking (the PA hadn't executed accomplices since 2006).
B. Ezra is a known turd
C. if after 3 years of investigation all they found was this then I'm proud. The radical left has Ezra the radical right has hundreds of young terrorists who raise terror in the West Bank and inside Israel.
D. If I were a Palestinian it would have been a legitimate channel (considering they are not executed), The Lehi and Etzel excited a fair share of "traitors" in their heyday

[Intell]

So he's a complete idiot.

[DavidB.]

A. He was just bragging from what I heard that land seller scum is alive and kicking (the PA hadn't executed accomplices since 2006).

I read different stories than you. Indeed, PA courts haven't sentenced people to death for this for a while: instead, these people simply "disappear" and get killed outside the existing legal structures.

C. if after 3 years of investigation all they found was this then I'm proud. The radical left has Ezra the radical right has hundreds of young terrorists who raise terror in the West Bank and inside Israel.

Lmao! "Hundreds of young terrorists", do you even believe this yourself? You can't be serious.

D. If I were a Palestinian it would have been a legitimate channel (considering they are not executed), The Lehi and Etzel excited a fair share of "traitors" in their heyday

Well, I don't support that either (you probably mean executed). And yes, the were actually executed -- even if they wouldn't be, however, which isn't the case, Nawi is clearly evil for bragging about aiding in killing people. Your argument, by the way, seems to be very self-contradictory. "They weren't killed but it's ok because Lehi and Etzel did it too"...

[Hnv1]

Yes, terrorists, I guess it's hard to believe when you live 5 hours of a flight away and don't know thir conduct in person

I didn't say I support it but I'  also not fighting for my national liberation, and it's not my role to decide for the Palestinians how deal with their traitors.

amd yes Ezra is scum, I could have said before this incident

[DavidB.]

Yes, terrorists, I guess it's hard to believe when you live 5 hours of a flight away and don't know thir conduct in person

This is a fruitless discussion, but no, me not living in Israel is not the reason why I do not buy this. I generally spend between one and two months a year in Israel. That includes volunteering in the territories (and I'm not talking about Maale Adumim or Ariel or Efrat then). I do not stay in hotels, I stay with Israelis. In sum, I know Israel and I know this segment of society.

I certainly agree with you that the hilltop morons are a problematic force in society and I certainly acknowledge the fact that their utter disrespect for the authorities is very worrisome. If they truly violate the law in a serious manner, they should not be allowed to live in the territories. Apparently, however, it is hard even to find any evidence that would justify a trial for the ones that have been arrested (I am not even talking about a conviction); it would be even harder for the ones that have not been arrested. Therefore, any talk about "hundreds of terrorists" is simply a huge stretch. You are smarter than this.

[Hnv1]

In regards to those arrested on arson accounts, I had not see the evidence so I can't comment but I fully agree physical interrogation should only be applied to ticking bombs and no to get confessions. I guess my experience of them and their mischief is different (I include their allies within Israel who take part in terrorizing Left demonstrations and arab citizens)

[DavidB.]

I guess my experience of them and their mischief is different (I include their allies within Israel who take part in terrorizing Left demonstrations and arab citizens)

Now you seem to be using the word "terrorizing" in a more colloquial sense. We obviously have very different views on right-wingers at left-wing demonstrations, and since I think we both know from each other where we stand, it does not seem particularly fruitful to discuss that.

The fact remains that even most people within Lehava cannot really be considered terrorists, even if they engage in disturbing stuff (and even if I really do not like them, having witnessed one of their embarrassing "marches" after a Beitar match). Let alone people like Yoav Eliasi (whom I do like) and his "lions", who simply air their opinions in a confrontational manner even if they can be loud at left-wing demonstrations.

[Hnv1]

I guess my experience of them and their mischief is different (I include their allies within Israel who take part in terrorizing Left demonstrations and arab citizens)

Now you seem to be using the word "terrorizing" in a more colloquial sense. We obviously have very different views on right-wingers at left-wing demonstrations, and since I think we both know from each other where we stand, it does not seem particularly fruitful to discuss that.

The fact remains that even most people within Lehava cannot really be considered terrorists, even if they engage in disturbing stuff (and even if I really do not like them, having witnessed one of their embarrassing "marches" after a Beitar match). Let alone people like Yoav Eliasi (whom I do like) and his "lions", who simply air their opinions in a confrontational manner even if they can be loud at left-wing demonstrations.

Terrorism for me: using violent measures and intimidating tactics against civilians to advance a political agenda.

As I know people who got actually beaten by Eliassi and his crew let's agree to disagree

[DavidB.]

Terrorism for me: using violent measures and intimidating tactics against civilians to advance a political agenda.

As I know people who got actually beaten by Eliassi and his crew let's agree to disagree

Yes, but when it comes to terrorism, the victims are generally not the real "goal" for the perpetrators: the real goal is to strike fear into the broader public, thereby influencing politics. The victims are merely the "means" for terrorists to strike fear.

When some of Eliasi's "crew" beat someone in demonstration of the radical left, this is probably not the case: they just dislike this person's political stance and therefore beat him up. The victim is the "goal" of the action, not the means. To be sure, I obviously do not approve of that (even if I cannot say I feel sorry for these people), but I do not think it constitutes terrorism in a strict sense.

[Hnv1]

Terrorism for me: using violent measures and intimidating tactics against civilians to advance a political agenda.

As I know people who got actually beaten by Eliassi and his crew let's agree to disagree

Yes, but when it comes to terrorism, the victims are generally not the real "goal" for the perpetrators: the real goal is to strike fear into the broader public, thereby influencing politics. The victims are merely the "means" for terrorists to strike fear.

When some of Eliasi's "crew" beat someone in demonstration of the radical left, this is probably not the case: they just dislike this person's political stance and therefore beat him up. The victim is the "goal" of the action, not the means. To be sure, I obviously do not approve of that (even if I cannot say I feel sorry for these people), but I do not think it constitutes terrorism in a strict sense.

I find their straightforward violence as an instrumental means to creating a public atmosphere where one should be afraid to express opinions that consensus doesn't bear. This classic SA-other right wing street gangs mentality, it's not all that sophisticated with an established ideology  part for silencing opponents and that's political terror.

It also beg the  moral question, who's worse the one who act violently instrumentally to get political gains or the one who act violently as an intrinsic value in itself? who is a bigger threat to society?

[Simfan34]

Don't you people have forums where you can do this?

[DavidB.]

I find their straightforward violence as an instrumental means to creating a public atmosphere where one should be afraid to express opinions that consensus doesn't bear. This classic SA-other right wing street gangs mentality, it's not all that sophisticated with an established ideology  part for silencing opponents and that's political terror.

The expected counterargument, and I must say that it feels compelling. However, I still truly doubt if the perpetrators of such violence even understand the broader impact of doing so. I do think attacking the victim is their aim, not influencing broader society (even if that is a possible consequence of this behavior). They do not do this because they think doing so will stop radical leftists from demonstrating, they do this because they hate radical leftists and want to beat them up. This is why I think it is (of course) problematic, but not terrorism in the strict sense of the word.

It also beg the  moral question, who's worse the one who act violently instrumentally to get political gains or the one who act violently as an intrinsic value in itself? who is a bigger threat to society?

That is a different question than "is it terrorism?". The answer to this question probably depends on the case, but I obviously agree with you that the conclusion "phenomenon X = not terrorist" does not necessarily mean that "phenomenon X = not a threat to society" or "phenomenon X = not morally bad".

Don't you people have forums where you can do this?

Why do you see this as an illegitimate discussion?

[ingemann]

Intellectual I get the reasoning behind this, but there have to something seriously wrong with a person those moral compass doesn't stop them before they help make a murder-trap. 

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Don't you people have forums where you can do this?

You people?

Compared to some of the stuff that gets posted here, this has been in the right board and hasn't strayed far from the original topic.  Besides, one of the thing I like about this forum is that it isn't nearly the echo chamber a lot of other fora are.

[Simfan34]

Don't you people have forums where you can do this?

You people?

Compared to some of the stuff that gets posted here, this has been in the right board and hasn't strayed far from the original topic.  Besides, one of the thing I like about this forum is that it isn't nearly the echo chamber a lot of other fora are.

Yes. Those two. I don't know. I have a low tolerance for Israel-Palestine stuff, and factional infighting... even less so.

[YaBoyNY]

Don't you people have forums where you can do this?

You people?

Compared to some of the stuff that gets posted here, this has been in the right board and hasn't strayed far from the original topic.  Besides, one of the thing I like about this forum is that it isn't nearly the echo chamber a lot of other fora are.

Yes. Those two. I don't know. I have a low tolerance for Israel-Palestine stuff, and factional infighting... even less so.

You don't have to click the thread?

[DavidB.]

Yes. Those two. I don't know. I have a low tolerance for Israel-Palestine stuff, and factional infighting... even less so.

This is not "infighting" and I have no idea why you get that impression. Hnv1 and I simply talk about events in Israel while disagreeing on some issues. Nothing out of the ordinary.

And what NYMillennial said.

[Hnv1]

Considering most Israel-Palestine discussions here are conducted by dogmatic Americans who hardly ever set foot in said area I find this board can only gain from actual Israelis (and hopefully in the future) Palestinians engaging in discussions.

If this doesn't interest you you're welcome to not check the thread