Chelsea Clinton: Sanders wants to dismantle Obamacare (user search)
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  Chelsea Clinton: Sanders wants to dismantle Obamacare (search mode)
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Author Topic: Chelsea Clinton: Sanders wants to dismantle Obamacare  (Read 2649 times)
Adam Griffin
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Political Matrix
E: -7.35, S: -6.26

« on: January 12, 2016, 11:38:37 PM »

There's that nasty Clinton spirit we all know and love!

Everybody knew that at the first glimpse of possible vulnerability, she and her allies would revert to their 2008 and prior style of nasty attacks, lies and slander; that the "mature" and "respectable" primary process we have known for the entirety of the campaign thus far would be thrown out the window.

I just hope Bernie doesn't get a spray-on tan or a little bit of sun between now and the end of the primary: Hillary will probably start all of that nasty dog-whistling she became so famous for in 2008 and that all of Black America conveniently forgot about over the past eight years!

It's really hilarious, though, because she never learns...once she starts getting mean and nasty due to sagging poll numbers, she becomes even more unlikable, which makes her poll numbers fall even more, which precipitates even more attacks, and so forth...
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Adam Griffin
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,094
Greece


Political Matrix
E: -7.35, S: -6.26

« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2016, 01:11:25 AM »
« Edited: January 13, 2016, 01:14:28 AM by President Griffin »

She's not wrong - Bernie doesn't seem to want to build on any of the accomplishments of the last 8 years, and seems content on conceding the idea that Obamacare is a failure.

Uh, it is. Assuming you ignore the fact that it was a colossal political misstep (Democrats are now legislatively locked out of governing for a generation in large part due to the controversy of it, fueled by the fact that it was such a damn private sector-inspired Frankenstein monster that it couldn't be explained properly to the public), there is still the fact that it has left at least two out of three of the previously uninsured without insurance and that the cost of healthcare is higher than ever ("you're only being price-gouged at two times the rate of inflation instead of three times the rate of inflation - you're welcome!"). I would be absolutely fine with losing our ability to govern for 30 years if we had actually fixed the problem. Instead, we put a bandage on a tumor because our party is filled with cowards who think a half-ass solution will only generate half as much outrage and misunderstanding.

It's disingenuous to criticize Sanders for wanting a Medicaid-for-all program that "leaves it up to the states" while defending Obamacare, when Obamacare itself was designed to vest its biggest and most tangible changes with respect to lowering the rate of uninsured in the states as well. From working within the existing parameters of Medicaid and Medicare, to signing off on state-based healthcare exchanges, Obamacare's real-world, specific mechanics were very much state-based. Sure, some loose parameters are governed by federal requirements, but those were never designed to be the bulk of the benefit in terms of lowering the rate of uninsured.

It's also worth noting that we'll never really know how much of an impact Obamacare had on lowering the rate of uninsured, because a) it was passed and implemented during a time in which many millions of people lost their jobs, and b) the rate of uninsured from 2010-2014 almost certainly increased solely because employers were scared and unsure of providing additional insurance options with such a large and misunderstood piece of legislation coming down the pipeline. There are also studies that suggest roughly half of those uninsured in 2009 but who are insured today obtained insurance through employer-sponsored healthcare plans. This means that in net terms, the bill likely added just a few million people to the rolls who didn't have health insurance prior and who had also been chronically without health insurance. The numbers that claim "15 to 20 million people" are very misleading when you break down how each group obtained insurance, whether or not they had insurance at some point in the recent past, and so forth.

Flawed as all get-out, doesn't address the bulk of the long-term cost problems, pushes even more public and private money into private insurance companies' pockets, merely shifts around where the actual costs regarding healthcare are paid by consumers, left potentially tens of millions of people without insurance because of its shoddy design and insistence upon state boundaries, and if this were 25 years ago, the bulk of Democrats in this thread defending this garbage as the harbinger of real progress would have been attacking this private-sector, pro-GOP idea exactly for what it is.
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Adam Griffin
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,094
Greece


Political Matrix
E: -7.35, S: -6.26

« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2016, 02:26:53 AM »

A lot of things have changed since 2000, particularly the cost of delivering healthcare. It's much more expensive now than it was then, and as we saw in Vermont, not even the most liberal states are willing to take on the burden of single payer.

Which is why it's more important than ever that it be implemented: the primary justification for doing so is a reduction in cost. It was 13% in 2000; it's 17.5% today.

Furthermore, individual states can't reasonably implement affordable universal health care for the same reason that individual states can't reasonably implement effective gun control measures. Only when it's the law of the land within 100% of our sovereign borders can you forcibly restrict access (in the case of guns) or forcibly lower costs (in the case of healthcare) and make it feasible.
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Adam Griffin
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,094
Greece


Political Matrix
E: -7.35, S: -6.26

« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2016, 09:41:52 PM »

A lot of things have changed since 2000, particularly the cost of delivering healthcare. It's much more expensive now than it was then, and as we saw in Vermont, not even the most liberal states are willing to take on the burden of single payer.

Which is why it's more important than ever that it be implemented: the primary justification for doing so is a reduction in cost. It was 13% in 2000; it's 17.5% today.

Furthermore, individual states can't reasonably implement affordable universal health care for the same reason that individual states can't reasonably implement effective gun control measures. Only when it's the law of the land within 100% of our sovereign borders can you forcibly restrict access (in the case of guns) or forcibly lower costs (in the case of healthcare) and make it feasible.

I don't disagree with the general long term goal Griffin, but given the electoral response to Obamacare, would you not agree that pushing for single payer or something similar right now would be a poor use of political capital? Personally I'd try to change Obamacare at the margins while focusing my efforts elsewhere if I was a Dem pol.

Well yes, at this point (as I outlined in my tl;dr earlier), Democrats have not only exhausted the political capital surrounding healthcare and insurance for a generation, but they have also lost the ability to govern for a generation because of it. It's all rather hypothetical at this point.
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