The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.)

[NeverAgain]

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[Blair]

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[Classic Conservative]

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[VPH]

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[Clyde1998]

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[Lincoln Republican]

PRINCIPLE VOTE

Question 1: How long should each presidential term last?
[ 2 ] Two (2) Months
[ 1 ] Four (4) Months
[ 3 ] Six (6) Months

Question 2a: Should there be a limit on the number of terms a person may serve as president?
[ 1] Yes
[   ] Yes, but the limit should only apply to consecutive terms
[   ] No

Question 2b: If Question 2a passes, what is the maximum number of terms a person should be able to serve as president?
[   ] One (2) term
[1 ] Two (2) terms
[   ] Three (3) terms

[Leinad]

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On 2a, I'm against term limits for most offices, although I see the wisdom of allowing a limit on consecutive Presidential terms. But I would prefer 3 (a year) over 2, as it is now.

[tmthforu94]

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I'm a little confused with 2b, considering 2a's 2nd and 3rd options, but I'll wait to see what the final outcome is and we'll go from there.

[ilikeverin]

Question 1: How long should each presidential term last?
[3] Two (2) Months
[1] Four (4) Months
[2] Six (6) Months

Question 2a: Should there be a limit on the number of terms a person may serve as president?
[3] Yes
[2] Yes, but the limit should only apply to consecutive terms
[1] No

Question 2b: If Question 2a passes, what is the maximum number of terms a person should be able to serve as president?
[3] One (1) term
[2] Two (2) terms
[1] Three (3) terms

[Associate Justice PiT]

Question 1: How long should each presidential term last?
[3] Two (2) Months
[1] Four (4) Months
[2] Six (6) Months

Question 2a: Should there be a limit on the number of terms a person may serve as president?
[3] Yes
[1] Yes, but the limit should only apply to consecutive terms
[2] No

Question 2b: If Question 2a passes, what is the maximum number of terms a person should be able to serve as president?
[3] One (2) term
[2] Two (2) terms
[1] Three (3) terms

[bore]

Question 1: How long should each presidential term last?
[3] Two (2) Months
[1] Four (4) Months
[2] Six (6) Months

Question 2a: Should there be a limit on the number of terms a person may serve as president?
[3] Yes
[2] Yes, but the limit should only apply to consecutive terms
[1] No

Question 2b: If Question 2a passes, what is the maximum number of terms a person should be able to serve as president?
[3] One (1) term
[2] Two (2) terms
[1] Three (3) terms

[Prince of Salem]

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[/]

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[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

RESULTS - Question 1: How long should each presidential term last?
Four Months (14)
Two Months (1)

RESULTS - Question 2a: Should there be a limit on the number of terms a person may serve as president?
No (10)
Yes, but... (4)
Yes (1)

Question 2a having been resolved in the negative, the results of the vote on Question 2b are discarded.


So there you have it, folks: the new Constitution will provide for a four month presidential term, renewable indefinitely. Tomorrow, we will begin debate on the powers to be vested in this office.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

We will now begin debating the powers of the executive branch. Delegates have 72 hours to propose any and all powers they feel should be held by the president. Once the 72 hours are up, I will call a principle vote on the matter; those powers that are approved by a majority of the voting delegates will be included in the final draft of the Constitution. (For an example of how this will work, see the previous debate on Congressional powers.)

[Adam Griffin]

The President should have the ability to grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present.

The President should have the ability to introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate.

The President should have the ability to appoint cabinet members, and to create cabinet-level offices as he/she sees fit.

The President should have the ability to appoint individuals to the Supreme Court, subject to Senate approval.

[Leinad]

We should put some safeguard on the pardoning system, if not scrap it altogether. Letting the president pardon someone unilaterally is dangerous.

[Lincoln Republican]

1.  The President should have the ability to grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present.

2.  The President should have the ability to introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate.

3.  The President should have the ability to appoint cabinet members, and to create cabinet-level offices as he/she sees fit.

4.  The President should have the ability to appoint individuals to the Supreme Court, subject to Senate approval.

Point 1, I agree with Leinad.

We should put some safeguard on the pardoning system, if not scrap it altogether. Letting the president pardon someone unilaterally is dangerous.

Point 2, Agreed.

Point 3, Do not agree.  This must be subject to debate in the Senate and to Senate confirmation.  On this issue, it is absolutely necessary to have a system of checks and balances in place.

Point 4, Agreed.

[Blair]

The President should have the ability to create his own cabinet positions; look at what happened recently with the recent changes. We had the rather stupid case back when I was home affairs secretary where I wouldn't have been able to represent the state in the Supreme Court because the Senate had decided to create a solicitor General.

The President is already constrained in Atlasia; let's at least give him the freedom to appoint those around him (subject to Senate approval)

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

I would note that, per the previous vote on Congressional powers, all presidential nominations for the cabinet/Supreme Court are subject to Congressional approval. I agree that the president should have control over the structure of the cabinet.

• To establish such executive departments as may be necessary
• To appoint the cabinet with the advice and consent of the Senate
• To appoint the justices of the Supreme Court with the advice and consent of the Senate
• To veto acts of legislation passed by Congress
• To exercise a line-item veto over the budget
• To issue pardons for crimes committed under federal law; but the President may not pardon himself nor overturn the result of a trial of impeachment
• To appoint the vice president in the event that the office falls vacant
• To command the armed forces of the Republic of Atlasia
• To make treaties with the advise and consent of the Senate

[Clyde1998]

1.  The President should have the ability to grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present.

2.  The President should have the ability to introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate.

3.  The President should have the ability to appoint cabinet members, and to create cabinet-level offices as he/she sees fit.

4.  The President should have the ability to appoint individuals to the Supreme Court, subject to Senate approval.

Point 1, I agree with Leinad.

We should put some safeguard on the pardoning system, if not scrap it altogether. Letting the president pardon someone unilaterally is dangerous.

Point 2, Agreed.

Point 3, Do not agree.  This must be subject to debate in the Senate and to Senate confirmation.  On this issue, it is absolutely necessary to have a system of checks and balances in place.

Point 4, Agreed.

Point 1 could be safeguarded by having a Senate approval for it.

[Adam Griffin]

I just wish that more of us had a little bit of creativity and dreaming potential here. Notions such as "separation of powers" in a game is not a life or death situation. We are trying to create a new and fun environment, guys: everything doesn't have to be chained to the United States Constitution (and if it is, then *yawn*, it's just going to be more of the same). 

[Leinad]

1.  The President should have the ability to grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present.

2.  The President should have the ability to introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate.

3.  The President should have the ability to appoint cabinet members, and to create cabinet-level offices as he/she sees fit.

4.  The President should have the ability to appoint individuals to the Supreme Court, subject to Senate approval.

Point 1, I agree with Leinad.

We should put some safeguard on the pardoning system, if not scrap it altogether. Letting the president pardon someone unilaterally is dangerous.

Point 2, Agreed.

Point 3, Do not agree.  This must be subject to debate in the Senate and to Senate confirmation.  On this issue, it is absolutely necessary to have a system of checks and balances in place.

Point 4, Agreed.

Point 1 could be safeguarded by having a Senate approval for it.

Indeed. I introduced that as an amendment in the Senate several months ago, but it was voted down because apparently it would dramatically reduce the President's role to require confirmation of pardons.

I just wish that more of us had a little bit of creativity and dreaming potential here. Notions such as "separation of powers" in a game is not a life or death situation. We are trying to create a new and fun environment, guys: everything doesn't have to be chained to the United States Constitution (and if it is, then *yawn*, it's just going to be more of the same). 

I get your point and kind of agree, but the pardon system in particular could have consequences. A rogue president is possible, and allowing said rogue president to unilaterally bring back people who were rightfully banned could have harsh consequences.


We should have a principle vote like this:

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Okay, maybe 8 options is a bit pedantic. I've never claimed to not be. Truman can re-word this however he likes--it's more his wheelhouse than mine.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

I think it would be more efficient to have a simple up-or-down vote on the pardoning power, and then consider additional restrictions afterwards (much as we did with the secession issue, minus the weeks of dithering over identical amendments). I have my own thoughts on the advisability (or lack thereof) of weakening executive authority, but I'll save that until after the vote.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

We will now begin a principle vote on the powers of the presidency. Please vote AYE, NAY, or Abstain on each of the following ten (10) questions (except #3, where you are asked to choose between two options). Voting will last 48 hours or until all delegates have voted.

NOTE: Several delegates have expressed support for restricting the president's ability to issue pardons. Because this is a complicated issue not really suited for a principle vote (which is designed primarily for 'yes or no' questions), I have decided to kick the can down the road until after the current vote. As a result, Question 1 on the below ballot only asks whether you think the president should be able to issue pardons. If your answer to Question 1 is "Yes, but [insert restriction here], you should still vote AYE on Question 1 - we will discuss possible restrictions at a later date.

OFFICIAL BALLOT
Principle Vote on Presidential Powers

The President shall have the power...

1.  To grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present.*
[   ] AYE    [   ] NAY    [   ] Abstain

*NOTE: We will discuss possible restrictions on this power at a later date.

2.  To introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate.
[   ] AYE    [   ] NAY    [   ] Abstain

3.  (Pick one)
      [   ] To appoint the cabinet
      [   ] To appoint the cabinet with the advice and consent of the Senate
      [   ] NOTA

4. To appoint the justices of the Supreme Court with the advice and consent of the Senate
[   ] AYE    [   ] NAY    [   ] Abstain

5. To establish executive departments as necessary
[   ] AYE    [   ] NAY    [   ] Abstain

6. To veto acts of legislation passed by Congress
[   ] AYE    [   ] NAY    [   ] Abstain

7. To exercise a line-item veto over the budget
[   ] AYE    [   ] NAY    [   ] Abstain

8. To appoint the vice president in the event that the office falls vacant
[   ] AYE    [   ] NAY    [   ] Abstain

9. To command the armed forces of the Republic of Atlasia
[   ] AYE    [   ] NAY    [   ] Abstain

10. To make treaties with the advise and consent of the Senate
[   ] AYE    [   ] NAY    [   ] Abstain