Is 'white privilege' a thing?

[Taco Truck 🚚]

Would you rather go in front of a jury as a white person or a black person?

If the you answered...

a) black   You are an idiot
b) indifferent  You are a slightly less stupid idiot
c) white  You understand the concept of white privilege.

[Vosem]

Would you rather go in front of a jury as a white person or a black person?

Depends where. In East Cleveland I would probably prefer to be black, for instance. I'd want to be as similar as possible to the typical member of the jury, so that they would feel most sympathetic towards me.

[All Along The Watchtower]

I think there's an important distinction between saying "whites are privileged" and saying "all whites are privileged."

[Taco Truck 🚚]

Would you rather go in front of a jury as a white person or a black person?

If the you answered...

a) black   You are an idiot
b) indifferent  You are a slightly less stupid idiot
c) white  You understand the concept of white privilege.

Depends where. In East Cleveland I would probably prefer to be black, for instance. I'd want to be as similar as possible to the typical member of the jury, so that they would feel most sympathetic towards me.

I see you fall into category a.

You honestly go around all day in a cold sweat looking over your shoulder nervously wishing you were black on the off chance you may one day be in East Cleveland and be accused of murder and be placed in front of a majority black jury?  The fact that is your biggest concern indicates you are enjoying some massive white privilege.  Black people's concerns are a bit more... plausible.

And I am not aware of hordes of white people being convicted by majority black juries.  Can you link to your source for this statement or is this just crazy Neonazis fever dream material.

[Vosem]

Would you rather go in front of a jury as a white person or a black person?

If the you answered...

a) black   You are an idiot
b) indifferent  You are a slightly less stupid idiot
c) white  You understand the concept of white privilege.

Depends where. In East Cleveland I would probably prefer to be black, for instance. I'd want to be as similar as possible to the typical member of the jury, so that they would feel most sympathetic towards me.

I see you fall into category a.

You honestly go around all day in a cold sweat looking over your shoulder nervously wishing you were black on the off chance you may one day be in East Cleveland and be accused of murder and be placed in front of a majority black jury?  The fact that is your biggest concern indicates you are enjoying some massive white privilege.  Black people's concerns are a bit more... plausible.

Where did I say it was my biggest concern? Besides a single, very minor traffic ticket I have never been accused of a crime; I've never faced a jury, anywhere, and don't intend to, and I also happen to no longer live in the Cleveland area. The point is that juries have been demonstrated everywhere to favor people who are similar to them.

And I am not aware of hordes of white people being convicted by majority black juries.  Can you link to your source for this statement or is this just crazy Neonazis fever dream material.

Neither am I, and it seems that you missed the point of my post. At no point did I refer to any specific defendant, or group of defendants. Read my post again. Considering your low reading comprehension skills, it may actually do you good to read the second sentence multiple times. Don't come back until you're certain you've understood it.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

Besides a single, very minor traffic ticket I have never been accused of a crime.

Who cares?  How many 16 year olds have been accused of murder?  Even murders can go 16 years without killing anyone.

I think there's an important distinction between saying "whites are privileged" and saying "all whites are privileged."

Yeah certain members of this forum are statistically challenged when it comes to topics of race.  If you say the median household makes $53K/yr that's not controversial.  You don't have idiots piling into the thread saying b-b-b-b-u-t-t-t in East Cleveland there are some households that make less than $53K/yr!

It is just bizarre.  The logic is as long as you can find one white person somewhere in America that is below the poverty line then by definition there is no such thing as white privilege.

Honestly I would love to hear Vosem's story of a totally innocent white guy in East Cleveland who was picked up by a bigoted black cop and then railroaded through the system by a bigoted black DA and indicted by a black grand jury and convicted by black jury in a trail presided over by a black judge and had their appeal denied by a black appellate court and tossed into solitary confinement by a black warden.  Who in their right mind would say, "I wish I was born black, just in case that happens"?

Bigotry really takes people to weird places.

[Vosem]

Besides a single, very minor traffic ticket I have never been accused of a crime.

Who cares?  How many 16 year olds have been accused of murder?  Even murders can go 16 years without killing anyone.  You've never gotten laid either.  Congratulations.  What the hell does that have to do with this thread?

Cue the personal attacks. How many 26-year-olds (or however old you are) come to a forum to wave their disgusting views about which refugees/accused criminals deserve sympathy and which don't in our faces?

I think there's an important distinction between saying "whites are privileged" and saying "all whites are privileged."

Yeah certain members of this forum are statistically challenged when it comes to topics of race.  If you say the median household makes $53K/yr that's not controversial.  You don't have idiots piling into the thread saying b-b-b-b-u-t-t-t in East Cleveland there are some households that make less than $53K/yr!

Really? I think someone would point out (in fact, TNF has made a very similar point in this very thread) that there are certain communities where the median household makes far less $53K a year, and they must be taken into account. For the record, in 2000 the median household income in East Cleveland was $20K, and the median household income in Owsley County, the community which TNF referred to, was $15K. Any household making $53K in either location would consider itself quite fortunate.

It is just bizarre.  The logic is as long as you can find one white person somewhere in America that is below the poverty line then by definition there is no such thing as white privilege.

Yes. It follows very logically that when some of the poorest, most under-privileged communities in a country belong to people of a certain ethnicity, even when the wealthiest of that community may be the most privileged people in the country, that ethnicity is not as a whole privileged. Jews in the 19th century were not privileged because of the Rothschilds, to use a more extreme example.

Honestly I would love to hear Vosem's story of a totally innocent white guy in East Cleveland who was picked up by a bigoted black cop and then railroaded through the system by a bigoted black DA and indicted by a black grand jury and convicted by black jury in a trail presided over by a black judge and had their appeal denied by a black appellate court and tossed into solitary confinement by a black warden.  Who in their right mind would say, "I wish I was born black, just in case that happens"?

Bigotry really takes people to weird places.

The only person talking about white people in East Cleveland here is you; if you go reread my post (which I seem to ascertain you failed to do, in spite of my very specific instructions!) you will see I referred to East Cleveland only as an example of a community which is majority non-white. Surely you would not argue with that?

That juries all around the world prefer people more similar to them is established fact. Just because I would rather (to use a different example, since your overactive imagination seems to be stuck in East Cleveland) be Asian American than white or black in Honolulu does not mean that white and black people are discriminated against in Honolulu. It is simply a fact and it will continue to be one so long as juries exist, though better education and intercommunal relations can (and in fact dramatically have) reduce the unfairness of it. I would similarly rather be female than male when facing a jury, even though overall I must concede that in most aspects of American society (college admissions, wages) it is more advantageous to be male.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

Besides a single, very minor traffic ticket I have never been accused of a crime.

Who cares?  How many 16 year olds have been accused of murder?  Even murders can go 16 years without killing anyone.  You've never gotten laid either.  Congratulations.  What the hell does that have to do with this thread?

Cue the personal attacks. How many 26-year-olds (or however old you are) come to a forum to wave their disgusting views about which refugees/accused criminals deserve sympathy and which don't in our faces?

I think there's an important distinction between saying "whites are privileged" and saying "all whites are privileged."

Yeah certain members of this forum are statistically challenged when it comes to topics of race.  If you say the median household makes $53K/yr that's not controversial.  You don't have idiots piling into the thread saying b-b-b-b-u-t-t-t in East Cleveland there are some households that make less than $53K/yr!

Really? I think someone would point out (in fact, TNF has made a very similar point in this very thread) that there are certain communities where the median household makes far less $53K a year, and they must be taken into account. For the record, in 2000 the median household income in East Cleveland was $20K, and the median household income in Owsley County, the community which TNF referred to, was $15K. Any household making $53K in either location would consider itself quite fortunate.

It is just bizarre.  The logic is as long as you can find one white person somewhere in America that is below the poverty line then by definition there is no such thing as white privilege.

Yes. It follows very logically that when some of the poorest, most under-privileged communities in a country belong to people of a certain ethnicity, even when the wealthiest of that community may be the most privileged people in the country, that ethnicity is not as a whole privileged. Jews in the 19th century were not privileged because of the Rothschilds, to use a more extreme example.

Honestly I would love to hear Vosem's story of a totally innocent white guy in East Cleveland who was picked up by a bigoted black cop and then railroaded through the system by a bigoted black DA and indicted by a black grand jury and convicted by black jury in a trail presided over by a black judge and had their appeal denied by a black appellate court and tossed into solitary confinement by a black warden.  Who in their right mind would say, "I wish I was born black, just in case that happens"?

Bigotry really takes people to weird places.

The only person talking about white people in East Cleveland here is you; if you go reread my post (which I seem to ascertain you failed to do, in spite of my very specific instructions!) you will see I referred to East Cleveland only as an example of a community which is majority non-white. Surely you would not argue with that?

That juries all around the world prefer people more similar to them is established fact. Just because I would rather (to use a different example, since your overactive imagination seems to be stuck in East Cleveland) be Asian American than white or black in Honolulu does not mean that white and black people are discriminated against in Honolulu. It is simply a fact and it will continue to be one so long as juries exist, though better education and intercommunal relations can (and in fact dramatically have) reduce the unfairness of it. I would similarly rather be female than male when facing a jury, even though overall I must concede that in most aspects of American society (college admissions, wages) it is more advantageous to be male.

Vosem, not to be rude but you are the only one on the forum that doesn't seem to get it.  The point of my post was to post a general succinct thought provoking question that would illustrate the debate.  My point was to be terse.  Since you are the only person that doesn't get it I don't think it is fair to clutter up this thread giving you a tutorial on common sense and aggregate numbers.  You can continue regaling the forum with stories of your teenage driving record and unicorns in East Cleveland but I'm done with this conversation.  I'm not upset with you.  I'm disappointed in myself for being sucked into a teenage vortex of wasted time.

I apologize to the forum.  I should not have wasted your time.

[Vosem]

Schadenfreude, I trust you hold down a job where not a great deal of critical thinking is required. Much as I know it will do no good, I still feel compelled to respond to your last post, so here goes.

Vosem, not to be rude but you are the only one on the forum that doesn't seem to get it.

My first post -- that kicked off the whole conversation -- was an agreement with a previous poster.

 The point of my post was to post a general succinct thought provoking question that would illustrate the debate.

Nah, the point of your post was to insult other posters.

 My point was to be terse.  Since you are the only person that doesn't get it I don't think it is fair to clutter up this thread giving you a tutorial on common sense and aggregate numbers.  You can continue regaling the forum with stories of your teenage driving record and unicorns in East Cleveland but I'm done with this conversation.  I'm not upset with you.  I'm disappointed in myself for being sucked into a teenage vortex of wasted time.

I apologize to the forum.  I should not have wasted your time.

I hope the last sentences are an apology for your posting history as a whole, not just this conversation.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

It's amazing Schadenfreude hasn't been banned yet, huh. I somehow manage to agree with his original point and then hate him more than ever for his complete lack of reasoning ability.

[DavidB.]

It's amazing Schadenfreude hasn't been banned yet, huh. I somehow manage to agree with his original point and then hate him more than ever for his complete lack of reasoning ability.

Exactly.