What specifically did Jeb Bush do wrong? - Serious Answers Only
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 23, 2024, 10:28:33 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Election Archive
  Election Archive
  2016 U.S. Presidential Election
  What specifically did Jeb Bush do wrong? - Serious Answers Only
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2
Author Topic: What specifically did Jeb Bush do wrong? - Serious Answers Only  (Read 3345 times)
Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
Dwarven Dragon
Atlas Politician
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,706
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.42, S: -0.52

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: January 25, 2016, 02:54:29 PM »

Last year at this time, according to the media narrative and conventional wisdom, Jeb was supposed to be the inevitable republican nominee, provided Romney stayed out. His name ID, wealth, record, and family history were supposed to scare away a number of candidates, and those who did run against him were supposed to be utterly unable to compete. Sure, someone would rise up as the anti-Bush and win a few states. But no one would ever seriously endanger Jeb's chances of winning the nomination. Or so we were told.

In the end, Bush's presence in the race did not scare away anyone, not even fellow Floridian Marco Rubio. He has been reduced to being a better-funded Lindsey Graham. At the last debate, he was placed at one of the wings of the primetime stage, a mere shadow compared to Trump and Cruz. Even Christie, with all of his flaws, seems to be a more broadly acceptable nominee to the GOP as a whole than Bush. This was supposed to be impossible.

So, what did Bush do wrong? No, I don't want troll answers. I don't want answers about what other candidates did to him that worked well. I don't want endless complaining about his last name. No, what I want is concrete things that either he, his campaign, and/or his super pac did wrong. This is the guy who supposedly had the nomination locked up, and now he probably doesn't make it to Super Tuesday. What could have been done differently? Discuss.
Logged
King
intermoderate
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,356
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2016, 02:56:46 PM »

He was weak. He said nothing interesting or new. His name was tied to two terribly unpopular presidencies. He was obviously pandering. He was not a good debater. He was not good on his feet. Nobody believed his record as Governor was at all impressive.
Logged
Torie
Moderators
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 46,075
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -3.48, S: -4.70

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2016, 02:59:31 PM »

I think not handling well questions about his brother's adventure in Iraq and its legacy was his Waterloo. That undermined his credibility and gravitas, and then being generalized and inarticulate about explaining where he wanted to take the country, finished him off.
Logged
Mike Thick
tedbessell
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,085


Political Matrix
E: -6.65, S: -8.26

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2016, 03:00:24 PM »

I don't think he was able to generate a lot of enthusiasm among his supporters. It's the same thing that brought down Walker and, largely, Paul. Also, when there are so many more exciting choices, people aren't going to go to him even though he has sterling policy credentials. It didn't help that he was uncharismatic and the opposite of affable either.
Logged
Sprouts Farmers Market ✘
Sprouts
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,763
Italy


Political Matrix
E: -4.90, S: 1.74

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2016, 03:03:24 PM »

It was obvious to just about everyone from the beginning that he was going nowhere. No serious person here believed he had a chance of going to the general election. There was literally very little to nothing his campaign could have done to get him that high. Walker was a frontrunner for longer than Bush was.
Logged
Asian Nazi
d32123
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,523
China


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2016, 03:04:39 PM »

Really, he shouldn't have run at all.  It's obvious that he doesn't have the skills to cut it on the big stage anymore (if he ever did).  But assuming that he's already in:

1. He should've ran as George W. Bush's third term.  According to polls, his brother is very popular with Republican primary voters.  If Jeb wasn't a Bush he never would've even been considered a contender, he would've been Pataki with glasses.  I'm not kidding when I say I think his last name has actually turned out to be his biggest asset.

2. He should've embraced Trump.  It's the strategy that Cruz used to last as long as he did.  Instead, Bush has been one of the most antagonistic towards Trump, openly attacking him whenever he's had the chance, and then drawing Trump brutal ire back at him for a net loss.  
Logged
IceSpear
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,840
United States


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -6.43

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2016, 03:14:31 PM »

He was never anything close to inevitable. What made him drop from a top tier candidate to a joke was a) he sucks at debating and b) Donald Trump.
Logged
Broken System
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 429


Political Matrix
E: 0.26, S: 4.17

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2016, 03:47:55 PM »

-Is a Bush.
-Has no bold policies.
-Doesn't know or understand how the average human being feels.
-Doesn't stand out.
Logged
Maxwell
mah519
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 28,459
Germany


Political Matrix
E: -6.45, S: -6.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2016, 03:59:01 PM »

there are many problems with the Jeb campaign, let's just rattle off a few

- Jeb framed his entire campaign around an issue that is fundamentally unpopular with the base - immigration. He pushed the fact that his wife is hispanic, and that he will be able to appeal to hispanic voters because of his relatively liberal views on immigration. Voters in the Republican party already disagree with him on that, and other candidates stronger positioning only emboldened those voters.

- Jeb was not able to answer for even the basic questions surrounding his candidacy - particularly the war in Iraq, which has grown unpopular with even Republicans. He never was compelling on those issues, fumbled the answers from the get go, and it did not build confidence in him.

- This brings up another thing - Jeb is fundamentally untelegenic. He's awkward, he never sounds like the answers he gives are the best ones. He moves around like someone trying to wiggle their way to approval. Voters did not respond to that.

- None of Jeb's policies were especially outstanding or inspiring to voters. He offered nothing but boilerplate Republican platform beyond immigration of course. Guess where you can get boilerplate Republican platform? anywhere.

- Nobody cares about your record. At least not unless you have something else interesting in terms of what you will do. Between Jeb Bush and John Kasich, it almost seemed like they were in a contest of how fast you could spit out your jobs record.

- Jeb's major strength was fundraising. What I think became a problem later on is the impression that he is at the command of donors rather than being his own man. And he never fought that characterization. Along with that, the large amount of money brought him tons of air time, but as air time went up the market became over-saturated with Jeb ads, and new dollars of spending would do nothing to help his candidacy.

- A shiny new object of affection came into play in the form of Donald Trump, and Trump made his candidacy really starting going of making a mockery of Jeb Bush.
Logged
Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist
darthpi
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,708
United States


Political Matrix
E: -6.13, S: -6.87

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2016, 04:04:24 PM »

He ran as the calm, competent governance candidate in a year dominated by appeals to emotion.
Logged
Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
olawakandi
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 88,639
Jamaica
Political Matrix
E: -6.84, S: -0.17


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2016, 04:05:18 PM »

He peaked too early. And his announcement didnt turn out to be the big splash.  I think the GOP was favored during the time Jeb peaked and economy is doing enough for Dems to get back in office.
Logged
SillyAmerican
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,052
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2016, 04:09:04 PM »

I think for the most part, he just happens to have the wrong last name, and this cycle, the status quo is not a good thing.

As to the specific issues of his campaign, see Maxwell's excellent post...
Logged
Adam the Gr8
AM33
Rookie
**
Posts: 117
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.55, S: 0.70

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2016, 04:11:48 PM »

He ran as the calm, competent governance candidate in a year dominated by appeals to emotion.
Logged
Maxwell
mah519
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 28,459
Germany


Political Matrix
E: -6.45, S: -6.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2016, 04:16:19 PM »

He was so competent that he couldn't even answer whether or not he would re-invade Iraq!!!
Logged
EliteLX
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,037
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.64, S: 0.85

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2016, 04:20:11 PM »
« Edited: January 25, 2016, 04:47:11 PM by EliteLX »

No, people didn't abandon ship because they thought he was pandering. No, it's not because of his record, which in contrast with just about all other candidates trumps theirs. If Jeb's record is poor, Hillary is about as qualified as a can of soup to run the United States. Don't lie to yourself.

There are two real reasons he has taken an absolute pounding. The primary environment, and Jeb's introverted/semi-reserved personality, leading to an inability to articulate in a primary demanding all-out political warfare. 2016 is not the year for a humbled and successful semi-introverted Republican with more sensible and moderate views, who has predecessors with the same last name. It's just about everything you don't want in this nutty of a primary.

And on top of all that you have a walking walnut with a hairpiece whose only policy proposal is his poll numbers powered off of every redneck and uneducated uncle in the world eating his stuff right up.

Edit: Maxwell's original post also has some reasonable points as to Jeb's mistakes well. Lack of confidence being the most notable, but some I disagree with.
Logged
Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist
darthpi
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,708
United States


Political Matrix
E: -6.13, S: -6.87

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2016, 04:20:20 PM »

He was so competent that he couldn't even answer whether or not he would re-invade Iraq!!!

Lol

His argument was that he would govern competently. It is a fair point that a lot of what he said undermined his own argument.
Logged
Crumpets
Thinking Crumpets Crumpet
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,723
United States


Political Matrix
E: -4.06, S: -6.52

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2016, 04:28:47 PM »

He was never able to finish the sentence "We need another Bush in the White House because ________" or failing that "Jeb is not like his brother or father because __________". Nor did he make any attempt to create any sort of narrative about his campaign other than "I just want to be President because it's expected of me."
Logged
Chancellor Tanterterg
Mr. X
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 26,314
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2016, 04:38:19 PM »

Getting into the race in the first place, he never had a serious chance.
Logged
SteveRogers
duncan298
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,178


Political Matrix
E: -3.87, S: -5.04

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2016, 04:55:59 PM »

He did the same thing every other Republican candidate did wrong: He didn't take Trump seriously until it was too late.

And he refused to show any genuine emotion in the debates, including and especially when Trump directly insulted his wife.
Logged
Fuzzy Bear
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 25,715
United States


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2016, 05:22:55 PM »

He was never able to finish the sentence "We need another Bush in the White House because ________" or failing that "Jeb is not like his brother or father because __________". Nor did he make any attempt to create any sort of narrative about his campaign other than "I just want to be President because it's expected of me."

There is lots of truth in most posts here.  I quoted this one because it best describes what Bush Fatigue is all about.

Jeb, and not W, was supposed to be President in 2000.  The problem was that Jeb failed to win the Governorship of FL in 1994 and was only 2 years into his term in 2000.  I believe that this has always rankled Jeb, and I really do believe that he views himself as entitled to the Presidency.  He's really not humble at all, and while lack of humility can serve one well on the campaign trail, that only works when you're a blowhard with big accomplishments like Donald Trump, a super-focused intense personality with chutzpah like Ted Cruz, or even an Eager Beaver like Marco Rubio.  (Rubio shows the limits of a lack of humility; folks don't appreciate it from other folks who don't show up to work.)  It's not an asset when you are running as a legacy, and especially as a legacy to two (2) Presidents who were highly unpopular on their way out the door.

I don't believe it computes with Jeb that folks are sick of his entire family.  I don't believe that it registers with Jeb that folks don't like the Bushes anymore then they liked the Kennedys or Rockefellers.  If this had registered with Jeb, he'd have not ran for President and tried, instead, to be a power broker in another way.  But he's just like Hillary saying to Bill, "Anything you can do, I can do better!".  There's a limit to how far you can go (a limit I sense Hillary will soon discover herself) when your candidacy really is all about you.
Logged
wolfsblood07
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 656
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2016, 05:47:48 PM »

I don't think he did anything wrong.  He raises a lot of money, outlined his positions on issues, etc.  And he may not be out of it.
What appears to have happened is that the big names in the conservative movement (Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham) came out against him early on.  Michael Savage was another.  Trump has become their candidate.  The mess in Iraq and Afghanistan is a huge factor, along with W. being hugely unpopular and paving the way for Obama.  Don't forget, in 2008 and 2009, everyone was saying Jeb would probably never be president due to his being a Bush.  That narrative changed around 2013, as the bad feelings about W. faded somewhat.  Evidently, Ingraham and Coulter still felt the hatred!
But we shall see...
Logged
Fuzzy Bear
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 25,715
United States


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2016, 07:14:44 PM »

I don't think he did anything wrong.  He raises a lot of money, outlined his positions on issues, etc.  And he may not be out of it.
What appears to have happened is that the big names in the conservative movement (Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham) came out against him early on.  Michael Savage was another.  Trump has become their candidate.  The mess in Iraq and Afghanistan is a huge factor, along with W. being hugely unpopular and paving the way for Obama.  Don't forget, in 2008 and 2009, everyone was saying Jeb would probably never be president due to his being a Bush.  That narrative changed around 2013, as the bad feelings about W. faded somewhat.  Evidently, Ingraham and Coulter still felt the hatred!
But we shall see...

I agree it isn't over yet, but it looks bad.  The only advantage Jeb has is a money advantage, which will allow him to stay in the race longer than a whole lot of his competition if the going gets rough.

I also don't see Savage, Ingraham, and even Coulter as the leaders of Movement Conservatism.  These folks are outliers; they still can't hold a candle to Rush Limbaugh in terms of being taken seriously, and while these folks aren't pro-Jeb as of now, they're not going to destroy someone in a way that will cause them to be too damaged to beat Hillary Clinton. 

Bush 41 and Bush 43 were never the real choice of the conservative movement, though.  Bush 41 was Reagan's VP and made a deal with them, but he wasn't one of them.  Bush 43 said he was one of them, talked like one of them, but governed not too much unlike LBJ, with guns and butter as the theme of his administration.  His "butter" came in the form of his "Ownership Society" initiatives, but those intiatives did much to create the housing market catastrophe.  Bush 43 was a Big Government Republican who liked war. 

None of this was what Movement Conservatives had in mind for a President, so why would anyone think that Jeb would be their cup of tea.  Once bitten, twice shy, thrice (fill in the blank).
Logged
Averroës Nix
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,289
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2016, 09:35:16 PM »

Getting into the race in the first place, he never had a serious chance.

^^^

Let's not kid ourselves: If not for the Bush name and the connections that come with it, Bush would be nearly as much of afterthought as Pataki. He's not just a bad candidate; he's an irrelevant relic.

The leading party actors didn't get this. Jeb locked up a great deal of institutional support early on, kept solid candidates like Romney out of the race, and left others so starved for money, endorsements, and attention in the early stages of the campaign that they would never recover.

The party refused to accept this, and the result has been chaos.
Logged
Vega
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,253
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2016, 09:39:50 PM »

Even without Trump, Bush was starting (and had been) to slide. He was trailing Walker in Iowa, and it was getting tighter nationwide.
Logged
Suburbia
bronz4141
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 19,684
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2016, 10:15:32 PM »

Jeb Bush's issue was that he was too boring for the Republican Party, and therefore, the country. Bush believed that the base of the party wanted to hear his record in Florida in the late '90s and 2000's. They did not. Also, the party probably is tired of nominating Bushes for the White House, and electing them with controversy. His brother, W, won in 2000 by controversy with the Supreme Court of the U.S., and reelected in 2004 with Ohio being too close to call in the morning of November 3, 2004. After W's 2nd inauguration, he continued his Big Government Conservative Spending, continuation of the No Child Left Behind Act, etc. The base respects the Bush family, but they are probably tired of the Bushes. I don't know if George P. Bush will run for president in the future, but if he does, he may face problems like his father is right now.

If Jeb Bush wins the G.O.P. presidential nomination by the brokered convention in July, then the base will stay home in my opinion, but I could be wrong. It would probably be a revolt among the base.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.07 seconds with 13 queries.