The 45th president, on Day 1, announces a New Constitution. The Reaction?
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  The 45th president, on Day 1, announces a New Constitution. The Reaction?
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Author Topic: The 45th president, on Day 1, announces a New Constitution. The Reaction?  (Read 1352 times)
Blue3
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« on: January 26, 2016, 12:35:47 AM »

Let's say that on Day 1 for the new 45th President, 1/20/2017, the new President declares that just as the Founders ignored and replaced the Articles of Confederation once they thought it failed, this new President is going to do the same thing and write a New Constitution.

It could be Bernie Sanders, Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, whoever.

What would the reaction be?
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NeverAgain
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« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2016, 12:38:06 AM »

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Mr. Reactionary
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« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2016, 01:42:44 AM »

Violence. Much Violence.
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tschandler
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« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2016, 02:14:05 AM »

If Sanders you would likely have a civil war with a great deal of regular service members and most (if not all) National guard units joining the pro traditional Constitution side.
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Classic Conservative
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« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2016, 07:20:18 AM »

If it was Sanders it would be riots in the street and a lot of dead people probably including myself since I would be fighting for the old constitution
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Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas
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« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2016, 09:12:14 AM »
« Edited: January 26, 2016, 10:10:04 AM by Rubio Republican »

Immediate removal of this President by the US military, followed by a trial for treason and new elections.
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dead0man
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« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2016, 09:16:59 AM »

Laugh, because that's WAY outside what the President can do.
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Bismarck
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« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2016, 11:54:21 AM »

Regardless of who it was there would literally be a war if they didn't step down.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2016, 02:54:44 PM »
« Edited: January 26, 2016, 02:57:43 PM by Simfan34 »

If this president tried to impose a new constitution unilaterally, they would be impeached and removed for breaking their oath of office. There would be no support for such a move, regardless of who it came from. If they tried to organize a constitutional convention, the proposal would still be dead in the water, but that would be the end of it.

There wouldn't be a war. That would just be silly. Unless the gun nuts just started shooting in attempt to live out their "fight against tyranny!!1" fantasies.  There wouldn't be a coup, either-- trampling on the constitution in order to save it sort of defeats the point. The only way the military would enter the picture would be if the president refused to accept the Senate's verdict and had to be physically escorted from the White House.
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I Will Not Be Wrong
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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2016, 03:11:33 PM »

If this president tried to impose a new constitution unilaterally, they would be impeached and removed for breaking their oath of office. There would be no support for such a move, regardless of who it came from. If they tried to organize a constitutional convention, the proposal would still be dead in the water, but that would be the end of it.

There wouldn't be a war. That would just be silly. Unless the gun nuts just started shooting in attempt to live out their "fight against tyranny!!1" fantasies.  There wouldn't be a coup, either-- trampling on the constitution in order to save it sort of defeats the point. The only way the military would enter the picture would be if the president refused to accept the Senate's verdict and had to be physically escorted from the White House.

What if a bunch of protesters in favor of the President were let in by the President armed and ready to defend him to the death? Scary stuff
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2016, 03:48:06 PM »

Laugh, because that's WAY outside what the President can do.
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cxs018
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« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2016, 03:57:45 PM »

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ag
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« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2016, 07:06:26 PM »

Immediate removal of this President by the US military, followed by a trial for treason and new elections.

Which, of course, would amount to abrogation of the current Constitution. So he will get his wish in the end Smiley
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Virginiá
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« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2016, 10:03:42 PM »

Immediate removal of this President by the US military, followed by a trial for treason and new elections.

Which, of course, would amount to abrogation of the current Constitution. So he will get his wish in the end Smiley

Not necessarily. Congress could rush through an impeachment, or even if the military deposed him and had the VP (or House Speaker) take over, it wouldn't mean the abolishment of the Constitution. Lawmakers have passed laws they know are unconstitutional just to have them ruled that way later on, and cops have acted in unconstitutional manners as well. Their removal of him would just be a violation and then hopefully, back to business as usual.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2016, 11:07:57 PM »

Why go to the bother of announcing a new constitution?  The last few presidents have all simply ignored the old one when it suited them.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2016, 11:12:32 PM »

Talleyrand joins the new Consulate, then helps the Senate coup the First Consul. He works with a lieutenant general and John Brennan to lead a military coup against the new government with enlarged Senate powers. From there, he institutes a coup against the Military Directory of Ashton Carter, Joseph Dunford, Jr., and John Brennan, after which he becomes a minister under Emperor James Stavridis.

/s; Not Equivalent of French Version
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ag
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« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2016, 01:05:19 PM »

Immediate removal of this President by the US military, followed by a trial for treason and new elections.

Which, of course, would amount to abrogation of the current Constitution. So he will get his wish in the end Smiley

Not necessarily. Congress could rush through an impeachment, or even if the military deposed him and had the VP (or House Speaker) take over, it wouldn't mean the abolishment of the Constitution. Lawmakers have passed laws they know are unconstitutional just to have them ruled that way later on, and cops have acted in unconstitutional manners as well. Their removal of him would just be a violation and then hopefully, back to business as usual.

There is a big difference between impeachment and removal (which is competely legitimate) and a military takeover. A military takeover is far outside of the US constitutional system. Any general that does it would not be able to easily restore the constitutional order, because, once it is restored, he would, almost certainly, be prosecuted for treason himself. In fact, failing to prosecute would open the doors for the military to effectively become the top court, determining legality of executive action: something that is so far outside the US constitutional system, that this by itself would result in effective abrogation of the present Constitution. The military that, whatever the  circumstances, takes the lead here, is in rebellion, and that rebellion would have to be suppressed before the constitutional order is restored. But, of course, that means that the leader of such a military junta would be loathe to give up power - since power would be the only thing keeping him out of jail. So, chances are, if such an incredible thing were to happen, it would be followed by a few years of a military dictatorship.

Again, the issue is not that the president cannot be impeached and removed: of course s/he can. But an impeachment does not require any serious action on the part of the military (all the military has to do is to follow the orders of whoever becomes president according to the line of succession after the president is removed by the Senate). Any course of events in which the behavior of the military becomes news, is tantamount to the most radical change in US constitution order imaginable.
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Virginiá
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« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2016, 01:44:15 PM »

Any course of events in which the behavior of the military becomes news, is tantamount to the most radical change in US constitution order imaginable.

I suppose. It would be a unique and difficult event, but I truly think that it is more likely the military would remove him from office and return control to whoever is next in line. It doesn't have to invalidate the Constitution (or even part of it). The rule of law and order in this country is far more stable and respected than most countries vulnerable to this type of takeover. Plus, I like to think that the military leaders would understand that trying to stay in power would almost surely result in a civil war and that they wouldn't be able to depend on continued control of the military in such an event.

Though, none of this is to say it couldn't happen, but rather that I think it is more likely than not to return to regular order after a short spell of disorder. Probably would also be fair to say that whichever political party the rogue president came from would be done for.
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ag
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« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2016, 02:29:23 PM »

Any course of events in which the behavior of the military becomes news, is tantamount to the most radical change in US constitution order imaginable.

I suppose. It would be a unique and difficult event, but I truly think that it is more likely the military would remove him from office and return control to whoever is next in line.

If they do this without the Senate ordering the removal, the successor would be duty bound to not take the job. And if he were to take the job (say, if the president actually resigned or were killed), he would have the duty to prosecute for treason those who installed him. Anything else would be treasonable itself.

The US has a constitutional procedure for dealing with such situations. And the military has no role in it.
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TDAS04
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« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2016, 06:31:14 PM »

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jfern
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« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2016, 12:44:06 AM »

Why go to the bother of announcing a new constitution?  The last few presidents have all simply ignored the old one when it suited them.

What 4th amendment? There's no such thing!
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Sasquatch
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« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2016, 01:44:06 AM »

Why go to the bother of announcing a new constitution?  The last few presidents have all simply ignored the old one when it suited them.
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Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2016, 08:14:59 PM »

Why go to the bother of announcing a new constitution?  The last few presidents have all simply ignored the old one when it suited them.
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Blair
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« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2016, 09:04:13 PM »

Don't worry kids you won't have to go and die to save the Constitution.

As said what President would be stupid enough to do that, just wait till a major terrorist/economic collapse 
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Virginiá
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« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2016, 10:04:46 PM »

But what if at least 34 senators and the Joint Chiefs of Staff back the president's plan?  No one has yet considered this possibility.  The senate would fail to convict and the president would remain in office.  Post-1945, any serious civil war would be decisively won by the federal government within hours.  For the states, it would be either appoint delegates to the constitutional convention or hope the federal government lets you secede peacefully, at the risk of having your largest cities destroyed and then being subject to Reconstruction 2.0.  If military defectors somehow got nuclear weapons to the rebelling states, I suppose there could be a prolonged cold war scenario between the states.  Scary scenarios all around!

Sounds like the show "Jericho" (namely Season 2)
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