Opinion of Jesus
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Question: What is your opinion of Jesus?
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FF
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HP
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Author Topic: Opinion of Jesus  (Read 2007 times)
Enduro
Junior Chimp
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« on: February 01, 2016, 06:05:04 PM »

For Atheists; I want to know, even if you don't believe He's the Son of God, what you think about His message.

Look up a few Jesus quotes on google or the Bible if you don't know anything He's said.
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cxs018
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« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2016, 06:07:14 PM »

FF.
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afleitch
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« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2016, 06:10:21 PM »

He's not here to defend himself against what his supporters say about him so I won't comment.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2016, 06:21:35 PM »

This is when some tiresome hack is going to come along and say "ZOMG NO PROOF HE ACTUALLY EXISTED", I assume?

Great guy, from what we can tell. Not the son of god though - as if any self-respecting Jew would make such a claim.
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Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan
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« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2016, 06:28:05 PM »


Love him. No homo.
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Murica!
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« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2016, 06:33:24 PM »

An FF for sure.
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Classic Conservative
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2016, 06:35:42 PM »

Died for me and my sins so the biggest FF ever
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BRTD
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« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2016, 07:06:13 PM »

Gee take a guess as to how I voted.
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SWE
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« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2016, 07:06:48 PM »

I'd have a higher opinion of him if he existed.
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TNF
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« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2016, 07:32:42 PM »

I'd have a higher opinion of him if he existed.

This, plus I'd have a better opinion of him if his whole prescription for living was all about being humble and embracing weakness and fragility. Talk about a low energy faith.
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Clark Kent
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« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2016, 07:34:34 PM »

Died for me and my sins so the biggest FF ever
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RFayette
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2016, 07:43:54 PM »

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Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook
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« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2016, 07:54:13 PM »

Isn't there usually a poll for this kind of thing?

Anyway, the answer is obviously FF. (I MIGHT have voted HP just to protest how stupid of an idea this thread is, but there's no poll.)
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Enduro
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2016, 12:32:09 PM »

Sorry guys, forgot to put a poll.
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Enduro
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« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2016, 12:34:38 PM »

Ok, poll is up.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2016, 12:36:44 PM »

This is when some tiresome hack is going to come along and say "ZOMG NO PROOF HE ACTUALLY EXISTED", I assume?

I'd have a higher opinion of him if he existed.

Sigh. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Atheists are to history what Baptists are to biology.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2016, 12:52:48 PM »

Isn't there usually a poll for this kind of thing?

Anyway, the answer is obviously FF. (I MIGHT have voted HP just to protest how stupid of an idea this thread is, but there's no poll.)
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Goldwater
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« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2016, 03:15:26 PM »

This is when some tiresome hack is going to come along and say "ZOMG NO PROOF HE ACTUALLY EXISTED", I assume?

I'd have a higher opinion of him if he existed.

Sigh. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Atheists are to history what Baptists are to biology.

What about atheists who think that Jesus existed? Surely I can't be the only one. Tongue
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tmcusa2
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« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2016, 03:19:11 PM »

FF, but grossly misunderstood. Whether or not he existed is not that important. Whether or not "god/des" exists is not that important. What matters is whether you walk the walk, not how you talk the talk.
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Clarko95 📚💰📈
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« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2016, 04:08:29 PM »

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Oldiesfreak1854
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« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2016, 05:12:30 PM »

FF (sane).  I don't think you have to be a Christian to recognize that.
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Leinad
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« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2016, 07:04:42 AM »

FF. According to the Biblical accounts said a lot of great things and a few probably crazy things. Anti-establishment, anti-violence, and lots of his contemporaries hated him. Sounds like a libertarian, right guys? Smiley

Jesus obviously existed, but I don't think you can prove if he was the son of God or not. I wouldn't be surprised if theocratic governments added the religion stuff so that their people could conform to a set lf laws they thought would be better for them, while in reality Jesus was just a cool guy who went around talking about good things like love and whatnot.
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afleitch
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« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2016, 11:59:20 AM »

It is worth stressing that there is no evidence outside the New Testament that a man called Jesus existed.

I am not suggesting of course because there is no evidence outside the NT that Jesus existed that he did not therefore in fact exist, however his existence is certainly not settled.

What’s all the more curious is that he should be mentioned. For all Jesus’ bombastic preaching and all the events associated with him were somehow not important enough or disruptive enough to prick the ears of anyone who cared to write about him. Yet we know of other’s messianic claimants. Simon of Peraea, a former slave of Herod the Great and rebel leader killed by the Romans in 4BC is mentioned by Flavius Josephus. He died some 41 years before Josephus was even born, yet had such a legacy to be mentioned by Josephus. We know lots about Simon; Josephus even writes that he was a ‘comely person, of a tall and robust body’. We know of his campaign. We know the manner of his death; the commander of the Roman army, Gratus cut off his head. We know of Athronges, a shepherd rebel leader and contemporary of Jesus. Josephus describes the rebellion in detail and the defeat of Athronges’ four brothers, but is curiously silent on Athronges’ own demise.

Jesus is mentioned in Josephus’ Antiquities of the Jews written around 93-94AD but is merely inferred; his life story, his physical attributes, his campaign which grace the descriptions of Simon and Athronges are not there. It is worth noting at this point, that the works of Josephus mentions at least twenty different people with the name Jesus (including Jesus son of Damneus for example) The Jesus people are interested in, is mentioned as (the) ‘Jesus who is called Christ’, which is undoubtedly helpful in distinguishing from the different Jesus’. The deaths of James and John the Baptist are mentioned and differ from the New Testament versions of the same which while giving historical credence to these figures existing, goes against the NT narrative. 

(You cannot have it both ways if you seek historical evidence of Jesus yet dismiss the inevitability that this might not dovetail with what the NT tells you.)

Jesus as being ‘Christ’ is inferred through Josephus’ description of the death of James who is called the ‘brother of Jesus who is called Christ’. There is some speculation, that ‘Christ’ may also be a redaction given the fact that Jesus of Damneus who is mentioned in the text also has a brother named James.

The reference to Jesus’ execution by Pilate, the Testimonium Flavium. is generally accepted as not authentic in its entirety with a strong element of later Christian redaction within the text. It was first recorded by the fourth century Christian, Eusebius. In it, Josephus calls Jesus ‘the Messiah’, yet the Christian writer Origen specifically states that Josephus did not consider Jesus to be the Messiah. Furthermore, Jerome’s Latin version does not have ‘the Messiah’ but  ‘He was believed to be the Christ’ which is a far more neutral stance for the Pharisaic Jew to take.
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shua
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« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2016, 12:49:51 PM »

FF. According to the Biblical accounts said a lot of great things and a few probably crazy things. Anti-establishment, anti-violence, and lots of his contemporaries hated him. Sounds like a libertarian, right guys? Smiley

Jesus obviously existed, but I don't think you can prove if he was the son of God or not. I wouldn't be surprised if theocratic governments added the religion stuff so that their people could conform to a set lf laws they thought would be better for them, while in reality Jesus was just a cool guy who went around talking about good things like love and whatnot.

There have definitely been attempts by government to shape Christianity into something that could enhance social order, going as far back as Constantine in the 4th century. This was done mostly through trying to stamp out certain beliefs that were considered heretical, rather than completely inventing something new.

But the New Testament, and all its claims about Jesus' divinity, was written by people who were not in control of governments, but were often persecuted by the political authorities. They were considered "atheists" in their day, since they opposed the worship of the Roman Empire's gods, and called Jesus Lord and Son of God instead of the Emperor.  And the Christian religion was developing much of its basic form before any of the New Testament was even written down.
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Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2016, 02:03:24 PM »

This is when some tiresome hack is going to come along and say "ZOMG NO PROOF HE ACTUALLY EXISTED", I assume?

I'd have a higher opinion of him if he existed.

Sigh. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Atheists are to history what Baptists are to biology.

What about atheists who think that Jesus existed? Surely I can't be the only one. Tongue

It's not just that. Plenty of atheist writers have written things that are historically inaccurate.

At least one wrote that MLK wasn't a Christian. (I think it was Hitchens).
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