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Author Topic: Guns  (Read 30698 times)
jravnsbo
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« Reply #75 on: December 30, 2003, 12:28:57 PM »

--helpful in your understanding our legal system and how majority rule is the standard and where it is not, such as the example of fundmanetal rights.

------------
Helpful in what way? I am not really sure about what you are referring to.

If someone is disputing facts (like claiming that the holocaust never occured) I agree that it could be important. Otherwise, it's doubtful. The minority can often be right and trying to make someone look suspicious by claiming that the person is extremist is a doubtful way of arguing, but that's my view (maybe I am alone in thinking that. HELP!) Sad
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Gustaf
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« Reply #76 on: December 30, 2003, 12:35:20 PM »

--helpful in your understanding our legal system and how majority rule is the standard and where it is not, such as the example of fundmanetal rights.

------------
Helpful in what way? I am not really sure about what you are referring to.

If someone is disputing facts (like claiming that the holocaust never occured) I agree that it could be important. Otherwise, it's doubtful. The minority can often be right and trying to make someone look suspicious by claiming that the person is extremist is a doubtful way of arguing, but that's my view (maybe I am alone in thinking that. HELP!) Sad
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Oh, I think we are talking about slightly different things. I am just saying that the majority's position is not a good argument in a debate, to promote one's own view. The legal and political system is something different. I believe that certain rihts and principles should be laid out and be impossible to change for the majority. This is the protection of the minority from the majority and is fundamental in any democracy. Apart from that I have nothing against majority decisions. But if there is something peculiar about your legal system which you think I am unaware of and that is somehow leading me to misconceptions, I would be grateful if you would explain it to me. (Since we have established on another thread that you are such a well-educated lawyer)Smiley
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jravnsbo
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« Reply #77 on: December 30, 2003, 12:42:28 PM »

first thank you for the compliment.

Next, well what i was trying to do was show how our legal system takes into account your argument already and let you see that.

See certain things are fundamental rights and it doesn't meatter what the majority thinks, what is right is right and protected even if offensive to a great majority, like flag buring for another example.  A huge majority hate flag buring and all of the States have passed a resolution stating they would favor a constitutional Amendment to protect it, and so ha the House of Rep by over 2/3 margins a number of times.  However in 1989 the SCT ruled it was free speech and thus a protected act.

--as I said majority rule is not the end all argument, but i think where the majority stands should be ONE factor and always made part of the discussion.


--helpful in your understanding our legal system and how majority rule is the standard and where it is not, such as the example of fundmanetal rights.

------------
Helpful in what way? I am not really sure about what you are referring to.

If someone is disputing facts (like claiming that the holocaust never occured) I agree that it could be important. Otherwise, it's doubtful. The minority can often be right and trying to make someone look suspicious by claiming that the person is extremist is a doubtful way of arguing, but that's my view (maybe I am alone in thinking that. HELP!) Sad
Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Oh, I think we are talking about slightly different things. I am just saying that the majority's position is not a good argument in a debate, to promote one's own view. The legal and political system is something different. I believe that certain rihts and principles should be laid out and be impossible to change for the majority. This is the protection of the minority from the majority and is fundamental in any democracy. Apart from that I have nothing against majority decisions. But if there is something peculiar about your legal system which you think I am unaware of and that is somehow leading me to misconceptions, I would be grateful if you would explain it to me. (Since we have established on another thread that you are such a well-educated lawyer)Smiley
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Gustaf
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« Reply #78 on: December 30, 2003, 12:49:23 PM »

first thank you for the compliment.

Next, well what i was trying to do was show how our legal system takes into account your argument already and let you see that.

See certain things are fundamental rights and it doesn't meatter what the majority thinks, what is right is right and protected even if offensive to a great majority, like flag buring for another example.  A huge majority hate flag buring and all of the States have passed a resolution stating they would favor a constitutional Amendment to protect it, and so ha the House of Rep by over 2/3 margins a number of times.  However in 1989 the SCT ruled it was free speech and thus a protected act.

--as I said majority rule is not the end all argument, but i think where the majority stands should be ONE factor and always made part of the discussion.


--helpful in your understanding our legal system and how majority rule is the standard and where it is not, such as the example of fundmanetal rights.

------------
Helpful in what way? I am not really sure about what you are referring to.

If someone is disputing facts (like claiming that the holocaust never occured) I agree that it could be important. Otherwise, it's doubtful. The minority can often be right and trying to make someone look suspicious by claiming that the person is extremist is a doubtful way of arguing, but that's my view (maybe I am alone in thinking that. HELP!) Sad
Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Oh, I think we are talking about slightly different things. I am just saying that the majority's position is not a good argument in a debate, to promote one's own view. The legal and political system is something different. I believe that certain rihts and principles should be laid out and be impossible to change for the majority. This is the protection of the minority from the majority and is fundamental in any democracy. Apart from that I have nothing against majority decisions. But if there is something peculiar about your legal system which you think I am unaware of and that is somehow leading me to misconceptions, I would be grateful if you would explain it to me. (Since we have established on another thread that you are such a well-educated lawyer)Smiley

I reread your previous post and now I understand better what you were saying. I thought the part about Supreme Court and flag-burning was directed at someone else so I didn't read it thouroughly at first.

Well, I know that not everything is decided by majority decisions and I think that is right, as I state in my post above. I was kind of making another point, but I guess what you are saying has some bearing on that too.  

There is nothing wrong with staking what the majority position is, but it should not be used as a strong argument for a view.

To Mr. Fresh: I find it hard to believe that anyone would think that a view is warranted b/c it is a minority opinion, but if there is I agree with you. I just find it weird that you seemed to be debating something which I thought rather obvious; that the number of people supporting a view does not make it right, whether they are few or many.
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migrendel
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« Reply #79 on: December 30, 2003, 12:55:31 PM »

I must say, Mr. Fresh, describing abortion as cruel and unusual punishment is way out there. First of all, it is an individual choice, not a government decision, so to classify it as punishment would be illogical. Also, read my theory in the Judges discussion as to why fetuses do not have the citizenship right to protect them from such treatment.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #80 on: December 30, 2003, 12:56:23 PM »

first thank you for the compliment.

Next, well what i was trying to do was show how our legal system takes into account your argument already and let you see that.

See certain things are fundamental rights and it doesn't meatter what the majority thinks, what is right is right and protected even if offensive to a great majority, like flag buring for another example.  A huge majority hate flag buring and all of the States have passed a resolution stating they would favor a constitutional Amendment to protect it, and so ha the House of Rep by over 2/3 margins a number of times.  However in 1989 the SCT ruled it was free speech and thus a protected act.

--as I said majority rule is not the end all argument, but i think where the majority stands should be ONE factor and always made part of the discussion.


--helpful in your understanding our legal system and how majority rule is the standard and where it is not, such as the example of fundmanetal rights.

------------
Helpful in what way? I am not really sure about what you are referring to.

If someone is disputing facts (like claiming that the holocaust never occured) I agree that it could be important. Otherwise, it's doubtful. The minority can often be right and trying to make someone look suspicious by claiming that the person is extremist is a doubtful way of arguing, but that's my view (maybe I am alone in thinking that. HELP!) Sad
Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Oh, I think we are talking about slightly different things. I am just saying that the majority's position is not a good argument in a debate, to promote one's own view. The legal and political system is something different. I believe that certain rihts and principles should be laid out and be impossible to change for the majority. This is the protection of the minority from the majority and is fundamental in any democracy. Apart from that I have nothing against majority decisions. But if there is something peculiar about your legal system which you think I am unaware of and that is somehow leading me to misconceptions, I would be grateful if you would explain it to me. (Since we have established on another thread that you are such a well-educated lawyer)Smiley

I reread your previous post and now I understand better what you were saying. I thought the part about Supreme Court and flag-burning was directed at someone else so I didn't read it thouroughly at first.

Well, I know that not everything is decided by majority decisions and I think that is right, as I state in my post above. I was kind of making another point, but I guess what you are saying has some bearing on that too.  

There is nothing wrong with staking what the majority position is, but it should not be used as a strong argument for a view.

To Mr. Fresh: I find it hard to believe that anyone would think that a view is warranted b/c it is a minority opinion, but if there is I agree with you. I just find it weird that you seemed to be debating something which I thought rather obvious; that the number of people supporting a view does not make it right, whether they are few or many.

It was just me joking around a bit with Miamu, read his quote, then read my statement.  True, and obviously obvious.

Oh. I didn't get the joke then...(yeah, I'm thick...)
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PD
pd
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« Reply #81 on: January 02, 2004, 02:12:50 PM »

All I have to say, again, is that people should have the right to bear firearms. Gun control is stupid.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #82 on: January 02, 2004, 04:57:33 PM »

All I have to say, again, is that people should have the right to bear firearms. Gun control is stupid.

Convincing argument...
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #83 on: January 02, 2004, 05:58:03 PM »

All I have to say, again, is that people should have the right to bear firearms. Gun control is stupid.

Convincing argument...
He is composed of many one-line ultra-conservative un-defended arguments.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #84 on: January 02, 2004, 06:00:59 PM »

All I have to say, again, is that people should have the right to bear firearms. Gun control is stupid.

Convincing argument...
He is composed of many one-line ultra-conservative un-defended arguments.

Yeah, I've noticed.
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #85 on: January 02, 2004, 06:03:00 PM »

And he wants to run for president?  Haha!!
Imagine PD in a debate.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #86 on: January 02, 2004, 06:04:09 PM »

And he wants to run for president?  Haha!!
Imagine PD in a debate.

The GOP's answer to Howard Dean... Smiley
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #87 on: January 02, 2004, 06:12:00 PM »

And he wants to run for president?  Haha!!
Imagine PD in a debate.

The GOP's answer to Howard Dean... Smiley
Hey!  That's not nice..
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Gustaf
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« Reply #88 on: January 02, 2004, 06:19:01 PM »

And he wants to run for president?  Haha!!
Imagine PD in a debate.

The GOP's answer to Howard Dean... Smiley
Hey!  That's not nice..

To who? PD or Dean? Smiley
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #89 on: January 02, 2004, 06:20:50 PM »

Dean.  I don't care if your nice to PD.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #90 on: January 02, 2004, 06:24:54 PM »

Dean.  I don't care if your nice to PD.
I suspected that... Smiley
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #91 on: January 02, 2004, 06:28:56 PM »

Smiley
Nice to see we got that cleaned up, because I would send Howard dean's posse after you... Smiley
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Gustaf
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« Reply #92 on: January 02, 2004, 06:29:47 PM »

Smiley
Nice to see we got that cleaned up, because I would send Howard dean's posse after you... Smiley

All the way to Sweden? I am shivering! Smiley
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #93 on: January 02, 2004, 06:31:42 PM »

He has meetups in London.  So watch your back...Smiley
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Gustaf
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« Reply #94 on: January 02, 2004, 06:33:00 PM »

He has meetups in London.  So watch your back...Smiley
I could handle a draft dodger... Smiley
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #95 on: January 02, 2004, 06:43:38 PM »

He has meetups in London.  So watch your back...Smiley
I could handle a draft dodger... Smiley
Okay, I AM sending Dean after you. That's it.  Smiley
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Gustaf
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« Reply #96 on: January 02, 2004, 06:49:14 PM »

He has meetups in London.  So watch your back...Smiley
I could handle a draft dodger... Smiley
Okay, I AM sending Dean after you. That's it.  Smiley

Bring him on! Smiley
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #97 on: January 02, 2004, 06:51:23 PM »

You don't know what you're asking for..
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Gustaf
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« Reply #98 on: January 02, 2004, 06:53:13 PM »

You don't know what you're asking for..

What's the worse he can do? Tax increases? Believe me, we're used to it in Sweden...
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #99 on: January 02, 2004, 07:33:20 PM »

You don't know what you're asking for..

What's the worse he can do? Tax increases? Believe me, we're used to it in Sweden...
I don't remember that post.
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