Liberals: Should parents be prohibited from teaching their kids the Bible?

[Jake]

Christianity is mainly used as a political tool nowadays by the right.

Very sad to see the right-wingers try to "out-Christian" each other and use McCarthyism on those who don't march in lockstep with their God Dubya.

If your head was stuck up your ass you'd know that Christians worshipped God, not whoever the moron in the White House happens to be.

[Jake]

Go back to your Meth lab buddy

[Jake]

Christianity is mainly used as a political tool nowadays by the right.

Very sad to see the right-wingers try to "out-Christian" each other and use McCarthyism on those who don't march in lockstep with their God Dubya.

If your head was stuck up your ass you'd know that Christians worshipped God, not whoever the moron in the White House happens to be.

Please provide a Biblical reference which says that such rhetoric is 'Christian'. Chapter and verse if you don't mind. Thanks

What says that it isn't dumbass? Chapter and verse if you can read. Thanks

[Palefire]

Christianity is mainly used as a political tool nowadays by the right.

Very sad to see the right-wingers try to "out-Christian" each other and use McCarthyism on those who don't march in lockstep with their God Dubya.

If your head was stuck up your ass you'd know that Christians worshipped God, not whoever the moron in the White House happens to be.

Please provide a Biblical reference which says that such rhetoric is 'Christian'. Chapter and verse if you don't mind. Thanks

What says that it isn't dumbass? Chapter and verse if you can read. Thanks

Gee, correct me if I am wrong, but the Bible I own talks about love, forgiveness, turning the other cheek, returning good for evil, not throwing stones until you are 'without sin', not having a 'holier than thou' attitude,  not judging other people, inclusiveness, and most of helping the poor and working for peace. Gee, I guess that is the commie version of the Bible, huh? What version of the Bible do you own, by the way, the Reader's digest 'pick and choose' Bible?

MacFarlan,
Are you daring to suggest that Jesus doesn't smile upon those that rove about calling people "dumb-ass" and "moron" when it suits them? We all pretty do such things from time to time - but such phrases do seem out of place in a discussion about Christianity (if you can call this ill conceived thread a discussion.)

[Gabu]

No, and looking through this topic, I would wager that the four "liberal - yes" votes were non-liberals attempting to be funny.

I'm not even going to bother saying anything more than that; I don't feel like wasting my time with someone who isn't listening.

[ATFFL]

No, and looking through this topic, I would wager that the four "liberal - yes" votes were non-liberals attempting to be funny.

I'm not even going to bother saying anything more than that; I don't feel like wasting my time with someone who isn't listening.

I was not trying to be funny, I was being stupid.

[Gabu]

I was not trying to be funny, I was being stupid.

Whichever.

[opebo]

It is tragic that children are indoctrinated into these cults and robbed of the opportunity of hearing more enlightened points of view.  Perhaps we need to question the rights of parents to have absolute power to abuse their offspring.

[Ebowed]

It is tragic that children are indoctrinated into these cults and robbed of the opportunity of hearing more enlightened points of view.  Perhaps we need to question the rights of parents to have absolute power to abuse their offspring.

This post was so ridiculous that I laughed out loud.  Opebo, you've done it again...

[Gabu]

Perhaps we need to question the rights of parents to have absolute power to abuse their offspring.

No, what we need to question is why you're so against freedom, but that's another story.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Murder should deserve murder. But, in a civilized society, we should lock people up and rehabilitate them, and I'm not talking some cushy rehabilitation clinic. There would be punishment. Hard, brutal punishment first, then when we have broken them we build them back up. We don't ever let them out though. Prison should be more about repentance and less about punishment. All people are sinners, no matter what you believe. We all deserve to have our time to repent, for all sin is equal in God's eyes.

Wow!

First so you decide how a "civilized society" should deal with murders!  ROTFLMAO

Second, have you ever considered that some people are NOT rehabilitatable?

Third, you really do have a GOD complex don't you.  You want to break people and build them back up. 

Fourth, have you ever given ANY thought to your suggestion, "We don't ever let them out though"?  What if they commit more murders while in prison?  Wouldn't those be 'free' murders (i.e. no additional punishment)?


Fifth, as to "repentence," I know a minister who for several years ministered to convicts in a mjor state prison.  He admitted that many inmates pretended to be repentent merely to gain parole.  I cann't be sure of real versus feigned repentance, and suggest that neither can you!

Sixth, your statement that "all sin is equal in God's eyes" really takes the cake.  Just where do you get this conclusion from?

[Ebowed]

Sixth, your statement that "all sin is equal in God's eyes" really takes the cake.  Just where do you get this conclusion from?

No, it makes good sense.  Jesus Christ is the only sinless man who ever lived and therefore has the ability to save all sinners - the fact that you can be a sinner, barred from heaven unless you have divine grace, without raping or murdering someone, would imply that all sins are bad and worthy of punishment.  I won't say that premarital sex is worse than murder, because obviously it's not, but all sins are bad.

[Rob]

Perhaps we need to question the rights of parents to have absolute power to abuse their offspring.

No, what we need to question is why you're so against freedom, but that's another story.

I had a rather long discussion with Opebo on this exact issue a while back. He basically said he was only in favor of freedom of expression if the views expressed matched his own beliefs.

[Ebowed]

Perhaps we need to question the rights of parents to have absolute power to abuse their offspring.

No, what we need to question is why you're so against freedom, but that's another story.

I had a rather long discussion with Opebo on this exact issue a while back. He basically said he was only in favor of freedom of expression if the views expressed matched his own beliefs.

Yes, Opebo's weird like that.  He thinks wearing a cross necklace in public should be banned, but people openly having anal sex with each other in public parks is fine.

[Rob]

Don't you understand, Ebowed? The religious violate our standards of decency when they wear their cult symbols in public.

As for anal sex, only a prude wouldn't want to see that!

[CARLHAYDEN]

Sixth, your statement that "all sin is equal in God's eyes" really takes the cake.  Just where do you get this conclusion from?

No, it makes good sense.  Jesus Christ is the only sinless man who ever lived and therefore has the ability to save all sinners - the fact that you can be a sinner, barred from heaven unless you have divine grace, without raping or murdering someone, would imply that all sins are bad and worthy of punishment.  I won't say that premarital sex is worse than murder, because obviously it's not, but all sins are bad.

So now you agree that "all sin" is NOT "equal"?

As to the other points I made, I notice NO response.

[Nation]

I partially agree with Ebowed here, Carl. In God's eyes, a sin is a sin -- you're still doing something that God does not want you to do.

Naturally, to people, a murder is much worse than premarital sex. We're much more greatly affected by it than two people having premarital sex, so a heavy punishment comes across, and that is acceptable.

But in God's eyes, a sin is a sin. Since sinning is what separates us from God, it shouldn't matter what sin we choose -- it's still there, and God still sees it.

[CARLHAYDEN]

I partially agree with Ebowed here, Carl. In God's eyes, a sin is a sin -- you're still doing something that God does not want you to do.

Naturally, to people, a murder is much worse than premarital sex. We're much more greatly affected by it than two people having premarital sex, so a heavy punishment comes across, and that is acceptable.

But in God's eyes, a sin is a sin. Since sinning is what separates us from God, it shouldn't matter what sin we choose -- it's still there, and God still sees it.

I don't claim to know whether  "in God's eyes" all sins are equal.

I always heard there were distinctions between mortal sins and venal sins.

Could you please  provide me with the basis for your conjecture.

[Nation]

Well there's clearly an obvious difference between venal and mortal sins. Something like disobeying one's parents doesn't wreck as much havoc has raping somebody. Catholics, correct me if I'm wrong, but Catholic teachings IIRC made the distinction that venal sins will land you in purgatory, and mortal sins will send you to an eternal Hellfire.

A sort of "felonies vs misdemeanors" kind of thing.

I've got my own personal philosophies on the issue, but the only Biblical evidence that I can think of offhand is Matthew 12:34 (google it to find some better examples), which compares an evil action to hatred in the heart.

:
"You snakes, how can you, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks."


-----------

Now, I also don't proclaim to know whether this is true or not. It may very well be that God doesn't consider all sins to be equal --- that verse may just be saying that God considers thoughts as well as actions when judging (I can't recall the adjacent verses in Chapter 12)

Galations says something about how "cursed is the man who does not read EVERYTHING in the book of the law," which seems to be saying that all sins come equally under God's judgment.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Most liberals are Christians if you look at the stats. Since about 86% of America is Christian

Bull.

86% of Kerry voters are religious, 72% are Christian.

http://election.cbsnews.com/election2004/poll/poll_p____u_s__all_us0.shtml

[Nation]

Most liberals are Christians if you look at the stats. Since about 86% of America is Christian

Bull.

86% of Kerry voters are religious, 72% are Christian.

http://election.cbsnews.com/election2004/poll/poll_p____u_s__all_us0.shtml

I think what Richius was getting at is that although some folks may CALL themselves Christian (even 72%) it's a relatively small percentage of them that even go to Church, let one bothering to pray, attempt to live a Christian lifestyle).

[Ebowed]

Sixth, your statement that "all sin is equal in God's eyes" really takes the cake.  Just where do you get this conclusion from?

No, it makes good sense.  Jesus Christ is the only sinless man who ever lived and therefore has the ability to save all sinners - the fact that you can be a sinner, barred from heaven unless you have divine grace, without raping or murdering someone, would imply that all sins are bad and worthy of punishment.  I won't say that premarital sex is worse than murder, because obviously it's not, but all sins are bad.

So now you agree that "all sin" is NOT "equal"?

As to the other points I made, I notice NO response.

Sin is sin.  I don't claim that they are all completely equal, but sin is sin nonetheless.  I only defended J.R. Brown's point to make that clear-- you seem to be implying that you've never done a bad thing in your life.

Also, I didn't have to respond to your other points-- they weren't directed at me in the first place.  I do notice, however, upon second reading, that some of your "points" were just cheap shots like "You really do have a GOD complex, don't you."  Nice try, though.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Most liberals are Christians if you look at the stats. Since about 86% of America is Christian

Bull.

86% of Kerry voters are religious, 72% are Christian.

http://election.cbsnews.com/election2004/poll/poll_p____u_s__all_us0.shtml

I think what Richius was getting at is that although some folks may CALL themselves Christian (even 72%) it's a relatively small percentage of them that even go to Church, let one bothering to pray, attempt to live a Christian lifestyle).

33% of Kerry voters and 50% of Bush voters attend church at least once a week.
81% of Kerry voters and 90% of Bush voters attend church at least a few times a year.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Sixth, your statement that "all sin is equal in God's eyes" really takes the cake.  Just where do you get this conclusion from?

No, it makes good sense.  Jesus Christ is the only sinless man who ever lived and therefore has the ability to save all sinners - the fact that you can be a sinner, barred from heaven unless you have divine grace, without raping or murdering someone, would imply that all sins are bad and worthy of punishment.  I won't say that premarital sex is worse than murder, because obviously it's not, but all sins are bad.

So now you agree that "all sin" is NOT "equal"?

As to the other points I made, I notice NO response.

Sin is sin.  I don't claim that they are all completely equal, but sin is sin nonetheless.  I only defended J.R. Brown's point to make that clear-- you seem to be implying that you've never done a bad thing in your life.

Also, I didn't have to respond to your other points-- they weren't directed at me in the first place.  I do notice, however, upon second reading, that some of your "points" were just cheap shots like "You really do have a GOD complex, don't you."  Nice try, though.

First, I apologize for the second point in my response to you, noting a non response to the other points previously made.  I confused you with the original posted (my bad).

Second, there was absolutely NO implication whatsoever in any of my posts that I've "never done a bad thing in your life," as you clearly alledge.  Please cite where I have made such an implication (I don't know how you could have made such an inference).

Third, if you review the my original post in this series, you will note that poster Brown spoke or "breaking" people down, and of "knowing" what is "in God' eyes."  To me both of these points border on being sacrilegious, with the poster have a God complex.

[opebo]

Perhaps we need to question the rights of parents to have absolute power to abuse their offspring.

No, what we need to question is why you're so against freedom, but that's another story.

I care about the rights of the children, not only the powers of the parents to do as they like with them.