The world became more social liberal economic conservative in the last 50 years

[buritobr]

I think that, from the 1960s to the 2010s, the world moved to the right on economic issues and to the left on social issues.

In the 1960s, the top 1% earned 10% of the national income in the USA. Nowadays, the top 1% earns 20%. The top income tax rate in the developed countries used to be between 60% and 90%. Nowadays, the top income tax rate is between 40% and 50%. Real purchase power of the minimum wage used to follow the productivity growth. Labor unions were stronger. In Europe, even in the capitalist west, there was a consensus that the state should take care of education and health. State owned enterprises were accepted in electricity, telefone, railways, airlines and heavy industries. In the 1980s and 1990s, these enterprises were privatised. It is accepted now that private firms can manage public schools. Keynesianism was the mainstream in the 1960s. Nowadays, there is the "new keynesianism", which has keynesianism only in the name.

On the other hand, the world became more open mind about race, sex, religion and civil liberties. In the 1960s, most of the Americans did not tolerate interracial marriage. Nowadays, most of the Americans tolerate gay marriage. In the 1960s, it was very hard to find blacks in soccer stadiums in Europe, in the teams and in the audience. The first soccer players in Europe, in the 1970s, used to earn less than the whites. Nowadays, there is no racial wage gap. The number of non-religious people in western countries in increasing. There is no apartheid in South Africa anymore. In the 1960s, there were three right-wing dictatorships in Europe, many right-wing dictatorships in Latin America and Asia. Now, there is a "right-wing" dictatorship... in China.

The increasing participation of women in the labor market is na evidence of the two sides of the coin. On one hand, it reflects the modernization of the values. On the other hand, it reflects the stagnation of the middle class wages.

[Antonio the Sixth]

the western world is more fiscally conservative while the east is more socially conservative

[afleitch]

Iran in the 1970's was probably more socially liberal than Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Greece etc.

[Classic Conservative]

Wait since when is there a right-wing dictatorship in China???

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Wait since when is there a right-wing dictatorship in China???

People vary with their interpretation of the exact dates, but in general, most would agree it was prior to your birth, and I don't say that in a snarky ageist way - just that you've known nothing but capitalist China.

[TJ in Oregon]

Wait since when is there a right-wing dictatorship in China???

People vary with their interpretation of the exact dates, but in general, most would agree it was prior to your birth, and I don't say that in a snarky ageist way - just that you've known nothing but capitalist China.

Sure the Chinese Communist Party isn't really communist at all anymore, but would you really characterize it as "right wing"? (Or is it "fiscally conservative but socially liberal!!"? ) The Chinese government strikes me as largely non-ideological bureaucrats who just want to stay in power.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Something something "The Triumph of Liberalism", and I'd guess that if this were to begin at some point, it'd be the 70's, with the early 1990's being its "peak".

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

By right wing, I mean embracing a market economy, which has been a consistent theme since the turn of the century. Non-ideological? Sure. But still clearly right-leaning.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Something something "The Triumph of Liberalism", and I'd guess that if this were to begin at some point, it'd be the 70's, with the early 1990's being its "peak".

To expand on that, I was referring to the "rise of the right" in countries like the United States and the United Kingdom, as well as the death of Mao in China. I only thought like a second ago of another example: Samuel Huntington's "The Third Wave" marked, well, the "Third Wave"'s [defined here as the third wave of democratization] beginning at about like 1974, itself completing in 1990-ish--or at least that's when he wrote the book.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Wait since when is there a right-wing dictatorship in China???

People vary with their interpretation of the exact dates, but in general, most would agree it was prior to your birth, and I don't say that in a snarky ageist way - just that you've known nothing but capitalist China.

Sure the Chinese Communist Party isn't really communist at all anymore, but would you really characterize it as "right wing"? (Or is it "fiscally conservative but socially liberal!!"? ) The Chinese government strikes me as largely non-ideological bureaucrats who just want to stay in power.

There really is no such thing as "non-ideological". The CCP is heterodox and employs a lot of doublethink but in effect it acts as a right-wing organisation. There's a reason they're so close to the KMT nowadays.

[buritobr]

Iran in the 1970's was probably more socially liberal than Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Greece etc.

Interesting. Do you have a source?

[buritobr]

Something something "The Triumph of Liberalism", and I'd guess that if this were to begin at some point, it'd be the 70's, with the early 1990's being its "peak".

To expand on that, I was referring to the "rise of the right" in countries like the United States and the United Kingdom, as well as the death of Mao in China. I only thought like a second ago of another example: Samuel Huntington's "The Third Wave" marked, well, the "Third Wave"'s [defined here as the third wave of democratization] beginning at about like 1974, itself completing in 1990-ish--or at least that's when he wrote the book.

It is hard to believe that 50 years ago, the income inequality in the USA and in the UK was lower than it was in France and FR Germany. The top income tax was higger in the USA and in the UK than it was in France and FR Germany. The ratio public spending / GDP was only slightly bigger in France than it was in the USA. Nowadays, it is much bigger.
The conservative conter revolution of the 1980s was much stronger in the Anglo Saxon world.

[Beet]

Wait since when is there a right-wing dictatorship in China???

People vary with their interpretation of the exact dates, but in general, most would agree it was prior to your birth, and I don't say that in a snarky ageist way - just that you've known nothing but capitalist China.

Sure the Chinese Communist Party isn't really communist at all anymore, but would you really characterize it as "right wing"? (Or is it "fiscally conservative but socially liberal!!"? ) The Chinese government strikes me as largely non-ideological bureaucrats who just want to stay in power.

There really is no such thing as "non-ideological". The CCP is heterodox and employs a lot of doublethink but in effect it acts as a right-wing organisation. There's a reason they're so close to the KMT nowadays.

It's hard to say because it's unclear what the alternative would be if the CPC fell. Their nominal rhetoric is certainly still left-wing, and their suppression of religion, family planning policies, and pro-Russia/North Korea stance are left wing. The last bit is a reverse from the Deng years.

Someone who advocated democratic reform and Western values would be considered on the far right in China's political spectrum.

In some ways it combines the worst of the left and the right. They're close to the KMT because the KMT is more anti-independence than the DPP, not for ideological reasons.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Wait since when is there a right-wing dictatorship in China???

People vary with their interpretation of the exact dates, but in general, most would agree it was prior to your birth, and I don't say that in a snarky ageist way - just that you've known nothing but capitalist China.

Sure the Chinese Communist Party isn't really communist at all anymore, but would you really characterize it as "right wing"? (Or is it "fiscally conservative but socially liberal!!"? ) The Chinese government strikes me as largely non-ideological bureaucrats who just want to stay in power.

There really is no such thing as "non-ideological". The CCP is heterodox and employs a lot of doublethink but in effect it acts as a right-wing organisation. There's a reason they're so close to the KMT nowadays.

Someone who advocated democratic reform and Western values would be considered on the far right in China's political spectrum.

Is this a joke?

[Beet]

Wait since when is there a right-wing dictatorship in China???

People vary with their interpretation of the exact dates, but in general, most would agree it was prior to your birth, and I don't say that in a snarky ageist way - just that you've known nothing but capitalist China.

Sure the Chinese Communist Party isn't really communist at all anymore, but would you really characterize it as "right wing"? (Or is it "fiscally conservative but socially liberal!!"? ) The Chinese government strikes me as largely non-ideological bureaucrats who just want to stay in power.

There really is no such thing as "non-ideological". The CCP is heterodox and employs a lot of doublethink but in effect it acts as a right-wing organisation. There's a reason they're so close to the KMT nowadays.

Someone who advocated democratic reform and Western values would be considered on the far right in China's political spectrum.

Is this a joke?

Why would it be a joke?

[Simfan34]

Iran in the 1970's was probably more socially liberal than Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Greece etc.

In the countryside, or in the working class neighborhoods of Tehran, Isfahan, Mashhad, or Tabriz? Probably not? Amongst the upper and middle classes? Perhaps. The key difference of an dedicated progressive and secularising regime in Iran versus decidedly traditionalist governments in the aforementioned countries does add credence to your point.

Iran in the 1970's was probably more socially liberal than Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Greece etc.

Interesting. Do you have a source?

There are many YouTube videos that try and show what Iran was like "before the Revolution". Of course, these present an idealised picture that ignore what things were like for much of the population, but they have their merits.

[Stranger in a strange land]

Wait since when is there a right-wing dictatorship in China???

The CCP in it's current incarnation is very much a pro-free market, nationalist party. It also supports traditional structures of authority, so it's increasingly socially conservative in a Chinese context (though not an American one, though that comparison is useless since we're talking about China).

And to the point that the CCP is non-ideological, there's really no such thing in politics. Generally, "non-ideological" equates to conservatism in the traditional sense of preserving the status quo.

[Beet]

The CCP was always nationalist even under Mao...

[Young Conservative]

I Wish we moved more conservative on all issues

[TJ in Oregon]

I Wish we moved more conservative on all issues

More conservative on literally every issue? Does that mean our cryptic and occasionally bizarre definition of American conservatism happens to be unadulturated truth? Or by conservatism do you mean some other definition?

[Orser67]

The "first world" became more "economically conservative" (in an American sense) as the post-war consensus collapsed in the 1970's and 1980's and was replaced by neoliberalism. The collapse of Communism also saw other countries move towards more laissez-faire systems.

[dead0man]

Wait since when is there a right-wing dictatorship in China???

People vary with their interpretation of the exact dates, but in general, most would agree it was prior to your birth, and I don't say that in a snarky ageist way - just that you've known nothing but capitalist China.

Sure the Chinese Communist Party isn't really communist at all anymore,

I don't know why this myth persists, but it's not true.  The PRC is still in many ways as "communist" as ever.  The state still 100% controls:the media, the economy, most major industries, all mining, the internet (well, they try), 98% of banking and you know, all the land.  It's a single party state, and that party call itself Communist.  I'm not saying it is communist, I'm just saying there are still many many aspects of it that point in that direction.

It's clearly not "right wing" though, that's just silly.

[ingemann]

Wait since when is there a right-wing dictatorship in China???

People vary with their interpretation of the exact dates, but in general, most would agree it was prior to your birth, and I don't say that in a snarky ageist way - just that you've known nothing but capitalist China.

Sure the Chinese Communist Party isn't really communist at all anymore,

I don't know why this myth persists, but it's not true.  The PRC is still in many ways as "communist" as ever.  The state still 100% controls:the media, the economy, most major industries, all mining, the internet (well, they try), 98% of banking and you know, all the land.  It's a single party state, and that party call itself Communist.  I'm not saying it is communist, I'm just saying there are still many many aspects of it that point in that direction.

It's clearly not "right wing" though, that's just silly.

The problem with left and right especially if we define out from the national context in different democratic states are that they become rather meaningless in autocratic states. Autocratic states will always focus on centralise power, create as strong a monopoly of force as possible and secure its own survival (through use of nationalism/patroitism, reactionarism, religion, clientism, modernism or whatever its find necessary to secure its own survival).

[P123]

Wont happen, at least not in the terms your thinking of (social liberal/fiscal conservative, dosint exist).

It will be Trump Reublicans Vs Sanders Democrats for the foreseeable future.

[Wells]

Wont happen, at least not in the terms your thinking of (social liberal/fiscal conservative, dosint exist).

It will be Trump Reublicans Vs Sanders Democrats for the foreseeable future.

And I don't see anything wrong with that.