Should states/regions etc. have a right to secede from their nation-states? (user search)
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  Should states/regions etc. have a right to secede from their nation-states? (search mode)
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Author Topic: Should states/regions etc. have a right to secede from their nation-states?  (Read 539 times)
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CrabCake
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« on: February 08, 2016, 11:23:17 PM »

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CrabCake
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« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2016, 11:34:11 PM »

Alright, I'll take the first billet: it obviously depends.  Because they aren't being allowed to vote and participate in their government?  Absolutely.  Because they're nervous the inslavement of human beings is about to be upended?  Nope.

What about Scotland, Catalonia, Quebec or even Tibet?
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CrabCake
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« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2016, 01:30:04 AM »

I would say that in democratic nations, it's not that great of an idea to secede since you theoretically have the better chance to help your region within that framework, but it should be allowed. In non-democratic nations, I would be more inclined to treat the desire to secede seriously. So, in say, Scotland or Quebec, I think it's a dumb idea economically for them secede, but I wouldn't be that opposed to the Rohingya wanting to secede from Myanmar, for example.

This is an interesting perspective, but flawed (leaving aside the Myanmar example, as Rakhine state is only about 20% Rohingya). Developing countries are often very vulnerable and often fear they will be completely Balkanised if they allow parts of themselves to fly off willy-nilly on ethnic grounds (which would result in potential chaos if the partition is carried out haphazardly or under ethnic chauvinist grounds - see Pakistan). That's why the developed world is so unwilling to recognise Somalliland - because it would cause Puntland and other separatist areas to start arguing, and then nobody can economically develop because it all crashes into ethnic bickering.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2016, 12:10:48 AM »

I would say that in democratic nations, it's not that great of an idea to secede since you theoretically have the better chance to help your region within that framework, but it should be allowed. In non-democratic nations, I would be more inclined to treat the desire to secede seriously. So, in say, Scotland or Quebec, I think it's a dumb idea economically for them secede, but I wouldn't be that opposed to the Rohingya wanting to secede from Myanmar, for example.

This is an interesting perspective, but flawed (leaving aside the Myanmar example, as Rakhine state is only about 20% Rohingya). Developing countries are often very vulnerable and often fear they will be completely Balkanised if they allow parts of themselves to fly off willy-nilly on ethnic grounds (which would result in potential chaos if the partition is carried out haphazardly or under ethnic chauvinist grounds - see Pakistan). That's why the developed world is so unwilling to recognise Somalliland - because it would cause Puntland and other separatist areas to start arguing, and then nobody can economically develop because it all crashes into ethnic bickering.

I didn't actually know how many Rohingya were in Myanmar, but good to know.

And I get the economic argument, but I feel it pales in comparison to moral arguments; if oppression or violence is encouraged against a group, they should have the right to at least potentially secede from the oppressor nation, because otherwise, what ability do they have to resist said oppressor? Shouldn't the Rohingya for example, have the right and ability to stop their wider society from oppressing them? And if all other avenues are explored and failed, then why not secession?

Again, South Sudan and East Timor are good examples; there's no way they could have gotten democratic rights, so their secession was justified, regardless of the economic cost to the parent nation.

?? My argument isn't an economic one?
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