Rangel Pushing for Draft Again

[Jake]

A grand total of zero.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2004/roll494.xml

With the recruiting goals being missed month after month the situation is a bit more desperate than it was during the last vote.  Anyway no where near enough will vote on this bill to pass it, but their probably will be a few Republicans that will vote for it, as opposed to basically just Rangel on the Dems side

Rangel won't even vote for it. Why now when he didn't before? And why would the Republicans touch this with a ten foot pole?

[Smash255]

Zero Republicans voted for it last time. Two Democrats did.

I fully admit that my prediction sucked, but I admitted the entire time it was partisan. I was just making a map of the best possible scenario for Bush.

& my prediction and the posts of mine you are grasping at are from times where the polls that were out wern't that far off from my predictions.  Anyway my post before, I don't think anyone will really be hurt by this.  You hoped for this to hurt the Dems in the 06 elections, but Rangel's seat is safe no matter what he does & their will be hardly any votes for it.  In nature the GOP tends to be more in favor of the draft than the Dems are.  The constant shortage of recruiting goals that we are going through now was as much of a problem the last time this was voted on as it is now.  So it is entirely possible that more people could vote for it this time around than last time (although it will still fall well short of the votes needed)

[Citizen James]

Yep, tons will vote for it like last time. How many Republicans voted for it then. That's right.

Rangel does something good for once. I urge the Democrats to support this.

I do too, but it has less to do with the quality of this action, and more to do with the results of the 2006 midterms.

A word to the wise; be careful what you wish for. You guys are all of age to eligible for the draft.

Hah, why be scared of serving your country. Only unpatriotic losers like opebo and BRTD are afraid to give their life for their country.

So, you're just biding your time until you can enlist, spending much of your spare time putting together care packages for the troops and voleneering for the USO.  Is that it?

Or are you simply to young to understand death.  The infamous feelings of immortality that so oft accompany youth.  Not just your own mind you - it is a terribly painful thing to take a life.  Even in war, some of the most common injuries are psychological - situations dictate that you have to kill, and often the person you have to kill is just a kid, an overgrown teenager (The majority of the population in Iraq is under 20).  That's the sort of thing that will haunt your nightmares for decades - and yet it has to be done.

I have nothing but respect for our troops, the put their lives on the line and their trust in our leaders that they will not be asked to kill and die without a damn good reason.   I feel our leaders have let them down in that regard.

As to a draft - I consider it a disasterous idea.   An army of people who don't want to serve is an army unprepared to act in a professional manner.  The back door draft is already tearing families apart and ruining people's lives.   You start drafting people and you are going to get massive public backlash, a dramatic increase in fraggings, a jump in misbehavior that puts Abu Gharib to shame, and a plummet in unit morale.  Very much not a good idea.

[A18]

By a 3-to-1 margin, they don't.

[Jake]

So, you're just biding your time until you can enlist, spending much of your spare time putting together care packages for the troops and voleneering for the USO.  Is that it?

Or are you simply to young to understand death.  The infamous feelings of immortality that so oft accompany youth.  Not just your own mind you - it is a terribly painful thing to take a life.  Even in war, some of the most common injuries are psychological - situations dictate that you have to kill, and often the person you have to kill is just a kid, an overgrown teenager (The majority of the population in Iraq is under 20).  That's the sort of thing that will haunt your nightmares for decades - and yet it has to be done.

I wouldn't presume to know what someone I've never met knows or has experienced. It's probably best you don't either, it doesn't look very good.

[David S]

Yep, tons will vote for it like last time. How many Republicans voted for it then. That's right.

Rangel does something good for once. I urge the Democrats to support this.

I do too, but it has less to do with the quality of this action, and more to do with the results of the 2006 midterms.

A word to the wise; be careful what you wish for. You guys are all of age to eligible for the draft.

Hah, why be scared of serving your country. Only unpatriotic losers like opebo and BRTD are afraid to give their life for their country.

Shall we take that to mean that you're going to enlist  in two years when you turn 18?

[A18]

You can just dodge anyway.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Even if a draft were to happen I'm basically already out of rangel. They count your age as what you turn in that calendar year, and since my birthday is very late in the year that means I'm considered 22 by that standard. And since it'd be basically impossible to get a draft running up in this year anyway, I'd be 23 by the time it could be reinstated at the earliest. Very unlikely a draft would ever reach that age. But it's a moot point since the draft won't be reinstated anyway, and this bill will have zero effect on anything like the last one, no political effect, did not pass, nothing.

[Jake]

Shall we take that to mean that you're going to enlist  in two years when you turn 18?

You can take that to mean that I'm strongly considering applying to one or more of the service academies.

[David S]

Shall we take that to mean that you're going to enlist  in two years when you turn 18?

You can take that to mean that I'm strongly considering applying to one or more of the service academies.

I'll mark it in my calendar.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Even if a draft were to happen I'm basically already out of rangel. They count your age as what you turn in that calendar year, and since my birthday is very late in the year that means I'm considered 22 by that standard. And since it'd be basically impossible to get a draft running up in this year anyway, I'd be 23 by the time it could be reinstated at the earliest. Very unlikely a draft would ever reach that age. But it's a moot point since the draft won't be reinstated anyway, and this bill will have zero effect on anything like the last one, no political effect, did not pass, nothing.

I heard they were going to draft starting at age 20, going up to 25, and only then going back to 18 and 19.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

that's how it'd work, but it's very unlikely it'd make it past 20.

[opebo]

Rangel does something good for once. I urge the Democrats to support this.

I do too, but it has less to do with the quality of this action, and more to do with the results of the 2006 midterms.

A word to the wise; be careful what you wish for. You guys are all of age to eligible for the draft.

It would be hilarious to see all these youthful conservatives drafted!

Hah, I'm 36!

[A18]

That's the age the bill starts with. And it targets upper class families first.

[2952-0-0]

The approval rate of Congress is at its lowest point since 1994, the year of the Contract With America thing. So Philip, barring any miracle for Bush you can kiss bye-bye to, say, republicans getting 60+ senate seats or something. Besides, with the impression that COngress is only a rubber-stamp for Bush a lot of people would (wrongly) think that Bush and Republicans are behind this.

[A18]

The Republican approval rating is higher than Democrat approval rating. There are plenty of potential pickups for the Republicans in the Senate; House is too gerrymandered to move much. The approval rating for Congress is down because people are pissed about gas prices.

People are not going to think a Democrat bill represents Bush and Republicans.

[Sam Spade]

Is Rangel actually going to vote for his own bill this time, or is he going to pull another Naso.

[David S]

Even if a draft were to happen I'm basically already out of rangel. They count your age as what you turn in that calendar year, and since my birthday is very late in the year that means I'm considered 22 by that standard. And since it'd be basically impossible to get a draft running up in this year anyway, I'd be 23 by the time it could be reinstated at the earliest. Very unlikely a draft would ever reach that age. But it's a moot point since the draft won't be reinstated anyway, and this bill will have zero effect on anything like the last one, no political effect, did not pass, nothing.

As far as the age goes the last time Rangel tried this the range was 18 to 26 including women. It was called the universal National Service Act. Here is an excerpt:

SEC. 2. NATIONAL SERVICE OBLIGATION.
(a) OBLIGATION FOR YOUNG PERSONS- It is the obligation of every citizen of the United States, and every other person residing in the United States, who is between the ages of 18 and 26 to perform a period of national service as prescribed in this Act unless exempted under the provisions of this Act.
(b) FORM OF NATIONAL SERVICE- National service under this Act shall be performed either--
(1) as a member of an active or reverse component of the uniformed services; or
(2) in a civilian capacity that, as determined by the President, promotes the national defense, including national or community service and homeland security.

According to the census bureau there are 30 million people in that age bracket, one tenth of the US population. Thats way more than the military needs so most of you would end up in the civilian capacity. Thats my other beef with Rangels bill; it creates a mandatory condition of involuntary servitude in addition to the military draft. Apparently Rangel never heard of the 13th amendment either.  Anyway if that happens then for the first time in history the American people will be made servants of the government. So much for the land of the free.

If you Democrats dislike the draft you should be writing letters to Rangel and telling him to shove it.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm talking about a hypothetical draft and how it would likely be. Rangel's bill will never pass, it's also basically impossible, the cost of trouble of drafting everyone who falls in that range is insane. You'd basically have to spend teh whole military budget.q

[Smash255]

The Republican approval rating is higher than Democrat approval rating. There are plenty of potential pickups for the Republicans in the Senate; House is too gerrymandered to move much. The approval rating for Congress is down because people are pissed about gas prices.

People are not going to think a Democrat bill represents Bush and Republicans.

Latest Pew Research Poll (from 5/12- 5/15) had the Dems approval 39%, disapproval 41%,  Republicans approval 35%, disapproval 50%

[opebo]

That's the age the bill starts with. And it targets upper class families first.

No, Philip, I'm home-free on this one.  You're what, late teens?  Your GOP just might get you killed yet!

[Rob]

The draft is a terrible idea.

[opebo]

The draft is a terrible idea.

Not really.  The terrible idea is the aggression the US has been committing that requires all these troops, and reduces national security.

[Rob]

The draft is a terrible idea.

Not really.  The terrible idea is the aggression the US has been committing

No, I like that idea. The problem with a draft is that draftees inevitably have lower morale than volunteers. Perhaps higher financial rewards would heighten enrollment.

[opebo]

The draft is a terrible idea.

Not really.  The terrible idea is the aggression the US has been committing

No, I like that idea. The problem with a draft is that draftees inevitably have lower morale than volunteers. Perhaps higher financial rewards would heighten enrollment.

Actually the Republican economic policies are sufficiently successful at creating the kind of severe desperation that drives poor people to enlist in the military, so it is quite possible that neither a draft or higher 'financial rewards' will be necessary to maintain the supply of cannon-fodder.