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Author Topic: I feel defeated  (Read 2888 times)
Trapsy
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« on: February 10, 2016, 03:22:43 AM »

As a Hillary supporter, I feel so defeated. The direction this campaign is going is really bad. Iowa was not a strong win. NH was a really bad loss. I just hope they can turn this around.
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Lyin' Steve
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« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2016, 03:36:54 AM »

This was always the problem with her campaign.  The first two states were the least friendly to her.

I despise Hillary as a person but aside from Bloomberg and Kasich she's the candidate I'd feel most comfortable with as president.  The main thing getting me down is these insane margins Sanders has with voters my age.  88-90% margins.  Is this generation really that insane?  I would say I hope they get wiser when they get into the real world and start having to understand how things actually work outside of fantasy-imaginationland, but I can't because voters in their 30s are also heavily favoring Sanders.

New Hampshire was always a terrible state for her though, it's a tiny retail politics state that prides itself on making up its mind late.  Hillary has always been bad at retail politics, its small size let Sanders and his rabid college supporters hit nearly everyone, and Hillary had to endure a brutal media cycle going into it:
  • Bill attacks Sanders:  "The big dog's getting nasty, remember when he blew it for her eight years ago?"
  • The press demanding she release the Goldman Sachs transcripts so they can take things out of context and make her look corrupt
  • More emailgate nonsense
  • Iowa coin flip conspiracy theories being propagated in pop culture, such as Colbert's show and everyone making the joke that Hillary should do the Superbowl coin toss
  • Madeleine Albright and Gloria Steinem's idiotic comments.  This absolutely dominated Clinton's media coverage going into the primaries
  • General stories about "WOW Bernie has a huge lead what does this mean for Hillary?"
So for those 40-50% of people who claimed they didn't make up their mind until the last few days, this was their impression of Hillary.  I listened to political radio and it was all "is it ok for Hillary to get $675K from Goldman Sachs?" and "were Madeleine Albright and Gloria Steinem out of line and what does this mean for Hillary's support among women?"  Meanwhile Bernie was on SNL and getting articles written about his appeal to young voters.
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Sir Mohamed
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« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2016, 03:38:11 AM »

Don’t worry, Hillary is going to be the nominee.
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2016, 03:57:31 AM »

This was always the problem with her campaign.  The first two states were the least friendly to her.

I despise Hillary as a person but aside from Bloomberg and Kasich she's the candidate I'd feel most comfortable with as president.  The main thing getting me down is these insane margins Sanders has with voters my age.  88-90% margins.  Is this generation really that insane?  I would say I hope they get wiser when they get into the real world and start having to understand how things actually work outside of fantasy-imaginationland, but I can't because voters in their 30s are also heavily favoring Sanders.

New Hampshire was always a terrible state for her though, it's a tiny retail politics state that prides itself on making up its mind late.  Hillary has always been bad at retail politics, its small size let Sanders and his rabid college supporters hit nearly everyone, and Hillary had to endure a brutal media cycle going into it:
  • Bill attacks Sanders:  "The big dog's getting nasty, remember when he blew it for her eight years ago?"
  • The press demanding she release the Goldman Sachs transcripts so they can take things out of context and make her look corrupt
  • More emailgate nonsense
  • Iowa coin flip conspiracy theories being propagated in pop culture, such as Colbert's show and everyone making the joke that Hillary should do the Superbowl coin toss
  • Madeleine Albright and Gloria Steinem's idiotic comments.  This absolutely dominated Clinton's media coverage going into the primaries
  • General stories about "WOW Bernie has a huge lead what does this mean for Hillary?"
So for those 40-50% of people who claimed they didn't make up their mind until the last few days, this was their impression of Hillary.  I listened to political radio and it was all "is it ok for Hillary to get $675K from Goldman Sachs?" and "were Madeleine Albright and Gloria Steinem out of line and what does this mean for Hillary's support among women?"  Meanwhile Bernie was on SNL and getting articles written about his appeal to young voters.

The premise is wrong. If anything, the localized atmosphere over the past week helped Clinton:

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Lyin' Steve
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« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2016, 04:13:23 AM »

Also remember Hillary and the party have been treating Sanders with kid gloves so far.  In 2008, Hillary didn't really go ham against Obama until after Super Tuesday when she still hadn't put him away.  This time she has the black community and the party on her side whereas before the black community was on Obama's side as well as a large chunk of the party (Harry Reid, Ted Kennedy, etc.)

It's all just the preseason for Clinton so far.  She's doing cheap stuff that can't really hurt her, like identity politics games and criticizing him and his supporters for their negative campaigning.  Iowa was supposed to be a toss-up.  NH was supposed to be heavy Bernie.  What we're expecting next is a string of victories in Nevada, South Carolina, and the Super Tuesday states that should shut Sanders' campaign down for good.  If that doesn't happen, then we'll start with the real attacks, like investigations into Sanders' communist and other far-left connections, his checkered past (especially as a radical revolutionary in the 60s and 70s), any controversies from his tenure as mayor of Burlington, etc.

The Clintons know how to play dirty.  Hillary fought tooth and nail to win the 2008 election, she hasn't come this far to not go twice as hard in 2016.  The fact that she's still barely even trying is in and of itself a reason to think she's still confident.  Case in point, she's going to start focusing on a Black Lives Matter agenda and campaigning with Trayvon Martin and Eric Garner's families.  This should help her against Sanders, but it also helps her in 2016.  She's not burning bridges to kill Sanders here.

In fact, Clinton would probably be perfectly content to keep Sanders alive and beat him 60-40 in most of the remaining states.  When the Sanders squad on campus furiously rushes to register every single college student and push them to go vote for Sanders, they're also registering Hillary voters for the general election.  Assuming Hillary doesn't lose and Sanders doesn't leave a permanent wound as he goes down (virtually impossible with Hillary considering all she's been through), Sanders' continuing presence in the race is a positive for her.
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ProgressiveCanadian
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« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2016, 04:14:01 AM »

This was always the problem with her campaign.  The first two states were the least friendly to her.

I despise Hillary as a person but aside from Bloomberg and Kasich she's the candidate I'd feel most comfortable with as president.  The main thing getting me down is these insane margins Sanders has with voters my age.  88-90% margins.  Is this generation really that insane?  I would say I hope they get wiser when they get into the real world and start having to understand how things actually work outside of fantasy-imaginationland, but I can't because voters in their 30s are also heavily favoring Sanders.

New Hampshire was always a terrible state for her though, it's a tiny retail politics state that prides itself on making up its mind late.  Hillary has always been bad at retail politics, its small size let Sanders and his rabid college supporters hit nearly everyone, and Hillary had to endure a brutal media cycle going into it:
  • Bill attacks Sanders:  "The big dog's getting nasty, remember when he blew it for her eight years ago?"
  • The press demanding she release the Goldman Sachs transcripts so they can take things out of context and make her look corrupt
  • More emailgate nonsense
  • Iowa coin flip conspiracy theories being propagated in pop culture, such as Colbert's show and everyone making the joke that Hillary should do the Superbowl coin toss
  • Madeleine Albright and Gloria Steinem's idiotic comments.  This absolutely dominated Clinton's media coverage going into the primaries
  • General stories about "WOW Bernie has a huge lead what does this mean for Hillary?"
So for those 40-50% of people who claimed they didn't make up their mind until the last few days, this was their impression of Hillary.  I listened to political radio and it was all "is it ok for Hillary to get $675K from Goldman Sachs?" and "were Madeleine Albright and Gloria Steinem out of line and what does this mean for Hillary's support among women?"  Meanwhile Bernie was on SNL and getting articles written about his appeal to young voters.

The premise is wrong. If anything, the localized atmosphere over the past week helped Clinton:



Just proves that undecided voters tend to go 50/50 more then the result.
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Coolface Sock #42069
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« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2016, 07:59:11 AM »

Just be happy you're not a Rubio supporter. Talk about a crushing defeat.
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Inmate Trump
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« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2016, 08:10:40 AM »
« Edited: February 10, 2016, 08:23:05 AM by Clay »

Sanders is my candidate, but nearly all of the contests going forward will be a Hillary win, with just a few small exceptions. And I will happily vote for her in November.

Anything to keep Trump from becoming the führer.
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Shadows
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« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2016, 08:15:25 AM »

As a Hillary supporter, I feel so defeated. The direction this campaign is going is really bad. Iowa was not a strong win. NH was a really bad loss. I just hope they can turn this around.

Hi, Sanders supporters here & someone who would never support Hillary. I do understand the pain of a narrow Iowa loss when we needed a win which would have helped a lot.

My sympathies, Best wishes to you! You have to be mentally prepared for losses & wins, such is life!
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Harry
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« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2016, 08:19:51 AM »

Keep your chin up. These first two (one of which she won anyway) don't resemble the rest of the race.

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cxs018
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« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2016, 08:26:27 AM »

Keep your chin up. These first two (one of which she won anyway) don't resemble the rest of the race.



Stop using that trite and overused argument. Clinton only won NH minorities very narrowly, and lost NH women. Nice try, though.
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Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
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« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2016, 08:30:00 AM »

Clinton has 390 Superdelegates to Sanders 90 delegates. Hes only going after CO, MN, VT and Ma on SuperTues. He was fonna win some states. But, its about momentum, emails must be released or questions will still come out.

She was gonna lose NH, but she did win Iowa and got split she needed.
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Shadows
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« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2016, 08:34:01 AM »

Keep your chin up. These first two (one of which she won anyway) don't resemble the rest of the race.



Iowa has a fair amount of conservatives & evangelical votes - I doubt if it is that liberal, Cruz won & Carson did well!

I doubt how true that chart is - Any other data?
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cxs018
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« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2016, 08:34:41 AM »

Clinton has 390 Superdelegates to Sanders 90 delegates. Hes only going after CO, MN, VT and Ma on SuperTues. He was fonna win some states. But, its about momentum, emails must be released or questions will still come out.

She was gonna lose NH, but she did win Iowa and got split she needed.

Sanders is targeting OK too. I'd imaoine he'd also make a play for TN if he gets enough momentum.
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Slander and/or Libel
Figs
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« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2016, 08:37:45 AM »

This was always the problem with her campaign.  The first two states were the least friendly to her.

I despise Hillary as a person but aside from Bloomberg and Kasich she's the candidate I'd feel most comfortable with as president.  The main thing getting me down is these insane margins Sanders has with voters my age.  88-90% margins.  Is this generation really that insane?  I would say I hope they get wiser when they get into the real world and start having to understand how things actually work outside of fantasy-imaginationland, but I can't because voters in their 30s are also heavily favoring Sanders.

New Hampshire was always a terrible state for her though, it's a tiny retail politics state that prides itself on making up its mind late.  Hillary has always been bad at retail politics, its small size let Sanders and his rabid college supporters hit nearly everyone, and Hillary had to endure a brutal media cycle going into it:
  • Bill attacks Sanders:  "The big dog's getting nasty, remember when he blew it for her eight years ago?"
  • The press demanding she release the Goldman Sachs transcripts so they can take things out of context and make her look corrupt
  • More emailgate nonsense
  • Iowa coin flip conspiracy theories being propagated in pop culture, such as Colbert's show and everyone making the joke that Hillary should do the Superbowl coin toss
  • Madeleine Albright and Gloria Steinem's idiotic comments.  This absolutely dominated Clinton's media coverage going into the primaries
  • General stories about "WOW Bernie has a huge lead what does this mean for Hillary?"
So for those 40-50% of people who claimed they didn't make up their mind until the last few days, this was their impression of Hillary.  I listened to political radio and it was all "is it ok for Hillary to get $675K from Goldman Sachs?" and "were Madeleine Albright and Gloria Steinem out of line and what does this mean for Hillary's support among women?"  Meanwhile Bernie was on SNL and getting articles written about his appeal to young voters.

How do you square your premise that New Hampshire has always been a terrible state for Hillary with the fact that she won a poll-defying victory there 8 years ago?
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Icefire9
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« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2016, 08:38:04 AM »

We just got past the hardest part of Clinton's entire game.  The first two states were literally two of Sanders' best states. 

Sanders' problems haven't magically gone away because he won big in New Hampshire.  He still hasn't proven himself with minorities, he still has been completely rejected by the party actors, and many of his campaign's actions have betrayed its lack of experience (the data breach, pretending to be a union official in NV, saying someone endorsed him in NV when no such endorsement happened). 
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SillyAmerican
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« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2016, 03:01:58 PM »

We just got past the hardest part of Clinton's entire game.  The first two states were literally two of Sanders' best states. 

Sanders' problems haven't magically gone away because he won big in New Hampshire.  He still hasn't proven himself with minorities, he still has been completely rejected by the party actors, and many of his campaign's actions have betrayed its lack of experience (the data breach, pretending to be a union official in NV, saying someone endorsed him in NV when no such endorsement happened). 

True. But I contend that it wasn't so much a Sanders win as it was a Clinton loss. I think people are looking for candidates they can trust, and Clinton has real troubles in this area. We'll see going forward if IA and NH were out of line with the rest of the country, but I'm beginning to suspect that's not the case...
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100% pro-life no matter what
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« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2016, 03:08:47 PM »

Keep your chin up. These first two (one of which she won anyway) don't resemble the rest of the race.



Iowa has a fair amount of conservatives & evangelical votes - I doubt if it is that liberal, Cruz won & Carson did well!

I doubt how true that chart is - Any other data?

If you look at the chart, the percentages are only for Democratic primary voters.
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Illiniwek
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« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2016, 03:15:58 PM »

I don't think its over, and I don't think these results are necessarily the end of the world. But Hillary overall has a campaign problem that has me nervous for the rest of the primary. She will need to change things up to stop Bernie fever from spreading.
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IceSpear
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« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2016, 03:25:33 PM »

This site is funny.

Yesterday: "Yeah, Bernie is going to win NH in a landslide, but it doesn't change the underlying fundamentals of the primary."
Today: "OMG, BERNIE WON NH IN A LANDSLIDE! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!!!!! HILLARY IS DOOMED!!!!!!
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Trapsy
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« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2016, 03:36:44 PM »

The missteps continue.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2016, 04:10:49 PM »

Glad to see a Hillary supporter having the appropriate and rational reaction to yesterday's results.

For what it's worth, you shouldn't feel TOO bad. Hillary is still most likely going to win.
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IceSpear
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« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2016, 04:15:04 PM »

Glad to see a Hillary supporter having the appropriate and rational reaction to yesterday's results.

For what it's worth, you shouldn't feel TOO bad. Hillary is still most likely going to win.

If you think she's still most likely to win, then how is feeling defeated rational? Huh
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madelka
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« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2016, 04:15:09 PM »
« Edited: February 10, 2016, 04:17:47 PM by madelka »

Glad to see a Hillary supporter having the appropriate and rational reaction to yesterday's results.

And you decide which reaction is appropriate and rational?

Btw: How are the Socialists in France doing again? Smiley
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2016, 04:23:37 PM »

Glad to see a Hillary supporter having the appropriate and rational reaction to yesterday's results.

For what it's worth, you shouldn't feel TOO bad. Hillary is still most likely going to win.

If you think she's still most likely to win, then how is feeling defeated rational? Huh

You had an awful night and severely underperformed expectations. Your candidate has 100% establishment support and started off with a 50 point lead in the poll, but ended up losing a State by 20 points to a virtual unknown. That's bad, and a rational person should acknowledge it.
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