The silver lining in the horribleness of it all for me

[Torie]

I feel pretty confident now, that Cruz has no path to the nomination (he's not going to win SC, so where is he going to win?). Heck, and macho Texas is going to love the macho Trump, not the clever lawyer who uses Clintonesque tactics. They are made for each other. So at least that aspect of the chamber of horrors is fading away.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

yes, whatever you may think about The Don he has spared the world the horrors of a potential Ted Cruz Presidency, and for that he deserves a medal.

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

Even if TRUMP wasn't in the race, Cruz wasn't going to go any where.

[Vosem]

Really? If anything, I think Cruz's path has never been clearer. He's within a few percent of Trump in SC, which he can make up with ground game/clever attacks/poached voters from Rubio, and SC is one of the most Trump-friendly Southern states; if he wins here, he'll sweep the South or close to it, and that's without mentioning his natural caucus advantage that should gift him states he would otherwise never win, like Minnesota or Colorado. While "favorite" is hard to say, I think Cruz is the likeliest nominee at the moment, and an outright favorite if he does win SC.

[RI]

He's within a few percent of Trump in SC

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

Really? If anything, I think Cruz's path has never been clearer. He's within a few percent of Trump in SC, which he can make up with ground game/clever attacks/poached voters from Rubio, and SC is one of the most Trump-friendly Southern states; if he wins here, he'll sweep the South or close to it, and that's without mentioning his natural caucus advantage that should gift him states he would otherwise never win, like Minnesota or Colorado. While "favorite" is hard to say, I think Cruz is the likeliest nominee at the moment, and an outright favorite if he does win SC.

Cruz is only strong now because without Paul, Huckabee and Santorum in the race he can consolidate the libertarian, tea party and evangelical wings of the party around his candidacy, but in the big states outside of Texas that doesn't work well.

PS: 16% is not "within a few points"

[Torie]

Really? If anything, I think Cruz's path has never been clearer. He's within a few percent of Trump in SC, which he can make up with ground game/clever attacks/poached voters from Rubio, and SC is one of the most Trump-friendly Southern states; if he wins here, he'll sweep the South or close to it, and that's without mentioning his natural caucus advantage that should gift him states he would otherwise never win, like Minnesota or Colorado. While "favorite" is hard to say, I think Cruz is the likeliest nominee at the moment, and an outright favorite if he does win SC.

I would be amazed if Cruz does, but we will find out soon enough. 60% of the Pub voters in SC are Evangelical. What is the nationwide figure? If Cruz can only get about a third or a tad more of the Evangelical vote, that seems to me to be anemic.

[°Leprechaun]

I feel pretty confident now, that Cruz has no path to the nomination (he's not going to win SC, so where is he going to win?). Heck, and macho Texas is going to love the macho Trump, not the clever lawyer who uses Clintonesque tactics. They are made for each other. So at least that aspect of the chamber of horrors is fading away.

I agree that he is not going to get the nomination. I say this because, although he could beat Trump one on one, I don't see all the others dropping out anytime soon.
However, Trump could be just as bad and possibly harder to beat in the general election. Therefore Trump, who wants to takes us back to the good old days and make America great again, when the natives were slaughtered and witches were burned (or maybe just hung), scares the hell out of me. He mocks Cruz for being a little apprehensive about cruel and unusual torture. Do we really want to go back 1000 years? Wouldn't it be better to support someone who will take us forward?

[Torie]

I feel pretty confident now, that Cruz has no path to the nomination (he's not going to win SC, so where is he going to win?). Heck, and macho Texas is going to love the macho Trump, not the clever lawyer who uses Clintonesque tactics. They are made for each other. So at least that aspect of the chamber of horrors is fading away.

I agree that he is not going to get the nomination. I say this because, although he could beat Trump one on one, I don't see all the others dropping out anytime soon.
However, Trump could be just as bad and possibly harder to beat in the general election. Therefore Trump, who wants to takes us back to the good old days and make America great again, when the natives were slaughtered and witches were burned (or maybe just hung), scares the hell out of me. He mocks Cruz for being a little apprehensive about cruel and unusual torture. Do we really want to go back 1000 years? Wouldn't it be better to support someone who will take us forward?

Yes the witches were hung, not burned, like my first cousin, 7 times removed or something., Sarah Wildes. A few years later, the "conviction" was reversed, and admitted to be a wrongful act, and her son received something like 5 pounds in compensation.  Almost all of the witches happened to be independently minded widows (cousin Sarah liked to wear silk scarves or something, oh the horror, the horror, of it all!) with property (women when married could not legally own property under English law, although they could under Dutch law in New Amsterdam). So that didn't fit into the established order of things, and thus they were removed from the public square.

[Virginiá]

and possibly harder to beat in the general election.

I'm sort of curious how a GE would play out with either Sanders or Clinton v Trump. He has a very aggressive, insult-based strategy and while he has attacked both Democrats, nothing he has said shows any real sign of sticking outside his core supporters.

So I am not really sure he can drive down either person's support with insults the same way he did in Jeb and Rubio. After all, he's been on the media almost 24/7 for the past 7 months for everyone, not just Republicans. And he sure as hell isn't going to outsmart either of them on policy, so....

All I can say for sure is this will be fun to watch

[°Leprechaun]

I feel pretty confident now, that Cruz has no path to the nomination (he's not going to win SC, so where is he going to win?). Heck, and macho Texas is going to love the macho Trump, not the clever lawyer who uses Clintonesque tactics. They are made for each other. So at least that aspect of the chamber of horrors is fading away.

I agree that he is not going to get the nomination. I say this because, although he could beat Trump one on one, I don't see all the others dropping out anytime soon.
However, Trump could be just as bad and possibly harder to beat in the general election. Therefore Trump, who wants to takes us back to the good old days and make America great again, when the natives were slaughtered and witches were burned (or maybe just hung), scares the hell out of me. He mocks Cruz for being a little apprehensive about cruel and unusual torture. Do we really want to go back 1000 years? Wouldn't it be better to support someone who will take us forward?

Yes the witches were hung, not burned, like my first cousin, 7 times removed or something., Sarah Wildes. A few years later, the "conviction" was reversed, and admitted to be a wrongful act, and her son received something like 5 pounds in compensation.  Almost all of the witches happened to be independently minded widows (cousin Sarah liked to wear silk scarves or something, oh the horror, the horror, of it all!) with property (women when married could not legally own property under English law, although they could under Dutch law in New Amsterdam). So that didn't fit into the established order of things, and thus they were removed from the public square.

Actually that's what I remember. I think that some were burned in Europe, however.

[Vosem]

PS: 16% is not "within a few points"

Well, I was thinking of the poll released yesterday that showed Cruz down 6; I hadn't seen the Opinion Savvy numbers yet. Regardless, I'm confident that Trump is leading Cruz in SC, but I'm equally confident that Cruz is doing better than 20% in SC.

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

PS: 16% is not "within a few points"

Well, I was thinking of the poll released yesterday that showed Cruz down 6; I hadn't seen the Opinion Savvy numbers yet. Regardless, I'm confident that Trump is leading Cruz in SC, but I'm equally confident that Cruz is doing better than 20% in SC.

Trump is at 33% with evangelicals while Cruz is in the very low 20's and Rubio ~16% IIRC according to the poll

[Torie]

I feel pretty confident now, that Cruz has no path to the nomination (he's not going to win SC, so where is he going to win?). Heck, and macho Texas is going to love the macho Trump, not the clever lawyer who uses Clintonesque tactics. They are made for each other. So at least that aspect of the chamber of horrors is fading away.

I agree that he is not going to get the nomination. I say this because, although he could beat Trump one on one, I don't see all the others dropping out anytime soon.
However, Trump could be just as bad and possibly harder to beat in the general election. Therefore Trump, who wants to takes us back to the good old days and make America great again, when the natives were slaughtered and witches were burned (or maybe just hung), scares the hell out of me. He mocks Cruz for being a little apprehensive about cruel and unusual torture. Do we really want to go back 1000 years? Wouldn't it be better to support someone who will take us forward?

Yes the witches were hung, not burned, like my first cousin, 7 times removed or something., Sarah Wildes. A few years later, the "conviction" was reversed, and admitted to be a wrongful act, and her son received something like 5 pounds in compensation.  Almost all of the witches happened to be independently minded widows (cousin Sarah liked to wear silk scarves or something, oh the horror, the horror, of it all!) with property (women when married could not legally own property under English law, although they could under Dutch law in New Amsterdam). So that didn't fit into the established order of things, and thus they were removed from the public square.

Actually that's what I remember. I think that some were burned in Europe, however.

No doubt, along with several Lutherans, whom that Catholic saint, Sir Thomas More, persuaded Henry VIII to burn at the stake against the king's better judgment. More down the line, however, was merely beheaded, rather than burned, alas.

[Vosem]

PS: 16% is not "within a few points"

Well, I was thinking of the poll released yesterday that showed Cruz down 6; I hadn't seen the Opinion Savvy numbers yet. Regardless, I'm confident that Trump is leading Cruz in SC, but I'm equally confident that Cruz is doing better than 20% in SC.

Trump is at 33% with evangelicals while Cruz is in the very low 20's and Rubio ~16% IIRC according to the poll

Trump will not win by double-digits among evangelicals. That number is what convinced me that Cruz will improve from his current performance.

[ag]

I feel pretty confident now, that Cruz has no path to the nomination (he's not going to win SC, so where is he going to win?). Heck, and macho Texas is going to love the macho Trump, not the clever lawyer who uses Clintonesque tactics. They are made for each other. So at least that aspect of the chamber of horrors is fading away.

I am sure you would also prefer being quartered to being burnt at stake, or the other way around. Whatever.

[DavidB.]

yes, whatever you may think about The Don he has spared the world the horrors of a potential Ted Cruz Presidency, and for that he deserves a medal.

On the contrary. Ted Cruz would never have become a serious contender if it weren't for Donald Trump entering the race and becoming the "extremist", thereby making Cruz seem like a reasonable alternative to some voters.

[This account no longer in use.]

I feel pretty confident now, that Cruz has no path to the nomination (he's not going to win SC, so where is he going to win?). Heck, and macho Texas is going to love the macho Trump, not the clever lawyer who uses Clintonesque tactics. They are made for each other. So at least that aspect of the chamber of horrors is fading away.

I agree that he is not going to get the nomination. I say this because, although he could beat Trump one on one, I don't see all the others dropping out anytime soon.
However, Trump could be just as bad and possibly harder to beat in the general election. Therefore Trump, who wants to takes us back to the good old days and make America great again, when the natives were slaughtered and witches were burned (or maybe just hung), scares the hell out of me. He mocks Cruz for being a little apprehensive about cruel and unusual torture. Do we really want to go back 1000 years? Wouldn't it be better to support someone who will take us forward?

Yes the witches were hung, not burned, like my first cousin, 7 times removed or something., Sarah Wildes. A few years later, the "conviction" was reversed, and admitted to be a wrongful act, and her son received something like 5 pounds in compensation.  Almost all of the witches happened to be independently minded widows (cousin Sarah liked to wear silk scarves or something, oh the horror, the horror, of it all!) with property (women when married could not legally own property under English law, although they could under Dutch law in New Amsterdam). So that didn't fit into the established order of things, and thus they were removed from the public square.

Actually that's what I remember. I think that some were burned in Europe, however.

Indeed, most witches were hung, although I believe that one of the Salem witches was crushed to death with rocks.

How did this conversation get created by this thread?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I feel pretty confident now, that Cruz has no path to the nomination (he's not going to win SC, so where is he going to win?). Heck, and macho Texas is going to love the macho Trump, not the clever lawyer who uses Clintonesque tactics. They are made for each other. So at least that aspect of the chamber of horrors is fading away.

I agree that he is not going to get the nomination. I say this because, although he could beat Trump one on one, I don't see all the others dropping out anytime soon.
However, Trump could be just as bad and possibly harder to beat in the general election. Therefore Trump, who wants to takes us back to the good old days and make America great again, when the natives were slaughtered and witches were burned (or maybe just hung), scares the hell out of me. He mocks Cruz for being a little apprehensive about cruel and unusual torture. Do we really want to go back 1000 years? Wouldn't it be better to support someone who will take us forward?

Your best defense against that though is Trump himself. His ego. He has the best buildings, the best company, went to the best schools and got the best grades. Do you really think he wants to be anything but "the best President in history"? I think the artist formerly known as Hammy and Nappy on here made that point on a certain other site a few months back.

[RaphaelDLG]

I respectfully disagree.  I hope Cruz is the nominee because

1) he's objectively the least electable of the contenders or at least certainly has the lowest ceiling of everyone and the lowest floor of everyone other than Trump and

2) on foreign policy, which is the area where the Pres can do the most damage, he is marginally less objectionable than all the Repubs other than maybe Trump, who changes his mind every three seconds and can't be trusted.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

I feel pretty confident now, that Cruz has no path to the nomination (he's not going to win SC, so where is he going to win?). Heck, and macho Texas is going to love the macho Trump, not the clever lawyer who uses Clintonesque tactics. They are made for each other. So at least that aspect of the chamber of horrors is fading away.

I agree that he is not going to get the nomination. I say this because, although he could beat Trump one on one, I don't see all the others dropping out anytime soon.
However, Trump could be just as bad and possibly harder to beat in the general election. Therefore Trump, who wants to takes us back to the good old days and make America great again, when the natives were slaughtered and witches were burned (or maybe just hung), scares the hell out of me. He mocks Cruz for being a little apprehensive about cruel and unusual torture. Do we really want to go back 1000 years? Wouldn't it be better to support someone who will take us forward?

Yes the witches were hung, not burned, like my first cousin, 7 times removed or something., Sarah Wildes. A few years later, the "conviction" was reversed, and admitted to be a wrongful act, and her son received something like 5 pounds in compensation.  Almost all of the witches happened to be independently minded widows (cousin Sarah liked to wear silk scarves or something, oh the horror, the horror, of it all!) with property (women when married could not legally own property under English law, although they could under Dutch law in New Amsterdam). So that didn't fit into the established order of things, and thus they were removed from the public square.

Actually that's what I remember. I think that some were burned in Europe, however.

No doubt, along with several Lutherans, whom that Catholic saint, Sir Thomas More, persuaded Henry VIII to burn at the stake against the king's better judgment. More down the line, however, was merely beheaded, rather than burned, alas.

Fun Fact: Burning was considered the humane option by some authorities, because it gave the witches time to repent for their "sins".

[RaphaelDLG]

I feel pretty confident now, that Cruz has no path to the nomination (he's not going to win SC, so where is he going to win?). Heck, and macho Texas is going to love the macho Trump, not the clever lawyer who uses Clintonesque tactics. They are made for each other. So at least that aspect of the chamber of horrors is fading away.

I agree that he is not going to get the nomination. I say this because, although he could beat Trump one on one, I don't see all the others dropping out anytime soon.
However, Trump could be just as bad and possibly harder to beat in the general election. Therefore Trump, who wants to takes us back to the good old days and make America great again, when the natives were slaughtered and witches were burned (or maybe just hung), scares the hell out of me. He mocks Cruz for being a little apprehensive about cruel and unusual torture. Do we really want to go back 1000 years? Wouldn't it be better to support someone who will take us forward?

Yes the witches were hung, not burned, like my first cousin, 7 times removed or something., Sarah Wildes. A few years later, the "conviction" was reversed, and admitted to be a wrongful act, and her son received something like 5 pounds in compensation.  Almost all of the witches happened to be independently minded widows (cousin Sarah liked to wear silk scarves or something, oh the horror, the horror, of it all!) with property (women when married could not legally own property under English law, although they could under Dutch law in New Amsterdam). So that didn't fit into the established order of things, and thus they were removed from the public square.

Actually that's what I remember. I think that some were burned in Europe, however.

No doubt, along with several Lutherans, whom that Catholic saint, Sir Thomas More, persuaded Henry VIII to burn at the stake against the king's better judgment. More down the line, however, was merely beheaded, rather than burned, alas.

Fun Fact: Burning was considered the humane option by some authorities, because it gave the witches time to repent for their "sins".

You know what's interesting is that many if not most of the rulers that burned people at the stake for heresy sincerely believed that they were helping not only the person they were burning but also the general community by purging it of heresy and helping to preserve their souls. 

Of course, that's ludicrous to a post-reformation, post-enlightenment, secular mind, and as an peace-loving, hippy-dippy liberal atheist I'm delighted to live in a world without those people, but I think the psychology of those people is a little more complicated than we understand it - i.e., they weren't just villains or psychos.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Of course, that's ludicrous to a post-reformation, post-enlightenment, secular mind, and as an peace-loving, hippy-dippy liberal atheist I'm delighted to live in a world without those people, but I think the psychology of those people is a little more complicated than we understand it - i.e., they weren't just villains or psychos.

I love this line. It is critical to any historical analysis to refrain from projecting modern presumptions onto a previous time period for precisely that reason. If 99% of the people are crazy in a certain year, it kind of negates impact of the meaning of the word crazy and the point of even bringing it up that they were so, unless it is to make a point about progress or something.

[Ljube]

yes, whatever you may think about The Don he has spared the world the horrors of a potential Ted Cruz Presidency, and for that he deserves a medal.

On the contrary. Ted Cruz would never have become a serious contender if it weren't for Donald Trump entering the race and becoming the "extremist", thereby making Cruz seem like a reasonable alternative to some voters.

I would appreciate if you and other TRUMP haters would stop calling TRUMP "extremist". It was proved time and time again that TRUMP is a moderate, the most recent evidence being his political matrix score I posted in the other thread.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

and possibly harder to beat in the general election.

I'm sort of curious how a GE would play out with either Sanders or Clinton v Trump. He has a very aggressive, insult-based strategy and while he has attacked both Democrats, nothing he has said shows any real sign of sticking outside his core supporters.

So I am not really sure he can drive down either person's support with insults the same way he did in Jeb and Rubio. After all, he's been on the media almost 24/7 for the past 7 months for everyone, not just Republicans. And he sure as hell isn't going to outsmart either of them on policy, so....

All I can say for sure is this will be fun to watch

Jeb and Rubio had policies that typically appeal to Republicans. Didnt matter that Trump didn't.

He just makes his plan sound like it's so obvious that the politicians are missing it. He just has to speak confidently to the voters and above the politicians. He will kill Hillary on healthcare for example. He can find blood like a shark.