Opinion of unironic TRUMP supporters?

[Ljube]

Trump's "populist" economic views have been a part of his platform since the 80s. Geez, it's like you haven't even read The Art of the Deal.

That hasn't changed. What has changed are social views so he could win a GOP primary.

And his social views haven't really changed. He just says they have.

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

Trump's "populist" economic views have been a part of his platform since the 80s. Geez, it's like you haven't even read The Art of the Deal.

That hasn't changed. What has changed are social views so he could win a GOP primary.

And his social views haven't really changed. He just says they have.

So, is he lying about his conversion to conservatism or what?

[traininthedistance]

One thing that's clear to Trump is that he speaks to something that goes beyond the traditional Republican mantra. Something extremely deep and ugly, which, as a European, I possibly have more experience with than most Americans here. People like Cruz have been saying what they say for over three decades now: they preach to their own choir and the rest of America shrugs it off and increasingly laughs at it. Trump's public discourse has the potential to unleash a new wave of xenophobia, populism and just plain, raw hatred that, until recently, even the most hardline conservatives didn't dare to delve into.

I 100% agree with you that xenophobic "populism" is deep and ugly and needs to be fought at every turn.  But I think your analysis of what "hardline conservatives" do or don't delve into is altogether too rosy.  They're generally more careful to dog-whistle and message things more carefully, but that sort of nativist appeal never actually went away, and has always been a major source of votes.  I mean, I remember when California's Prop 187 made the news back in the 1990s; more recently, take a look at Joe Arpaio and Lou Barletta.  What Trump is doing is more a difference in style and intensity, then a difference in kind.

[P123]

Trump's "populist" economic views have been a part of his platform since the 80s. Geez, it's like you haven't even read The Art of the Deal.

That hasn't changed. What has changed are social views so he could win a GOP primary.

And his social views haven't really changed. He just says they have.

So, is he lying about his conversion to conservatism or what?

No, read art of the deal. Trumps economic views have not changed, he has had the same nationalist views since the 1980s. Trump is a center-right economic nationalist, he has only changed on a few social issues really.

[P123]

Trump's "populist" economic views have been a part of his platform since the 80s. Geez, it's like you haven't even read The Art of the Deal.

That hasn't changed. What has changed are social views so he could win a GOP primary.

Exacley. Trump has always been a Perot type Center-right Conservative. The only issues that have changed are his social issues.

Trump has always had a pro-military, pro-securing the border, anti-mass globalization, and pro-health insurance coverage stance.

Some of Trumps views from 2000 (exactly the same as now, only difference is social issues).

Trump was firm concerning restrictions in immigration. “I’m opposed to new people coming in,” he said. “We have to take care of the people who are here.”
-1999

The current  3% of GNP for military is too low. To tell the enemy we’re not going to invade defies common sense. That lack of confidence may reflect another troubling reality: our diminished military forces. To wage our aerial assault on Yugoslavia we had to call upon US forces from all points of the globe. Why? Because we’re spread too thin. The US last year spent 3% of gross domestic product maintaining our military forces. Compare that with past figures: Defense spending in the last year of the Carter administration came to 4.9% of GDP. During the Reagan buildup it was 6.5%. We are still living off the Reagan military buildup of nearly 20 years ago. The question is: What will we live off ten or fifteen years from now if we do not invest again?
-2000

You can’t pursue forward military and foreign-policy objectives on a backward military budget. I’m not advocating that America go forth and police the world. I’m just saying that if we’re going to use our military power abroad, we had better make sure that power is ready to be used.

America is experiencing serious social and economic difficulty with illegal immigrants who are flooding across our borders. We simply can’t absorb them. It is a scandal when America cannot control its own borders. A liberal policy of immigration may seem to reflect confidence and generosity. But our current laxness toward illegal immigration shows a recklessness and disregard for those who live here legally.

The majority of legal immigrants can often make significant contributions to our society because they have special skills and because they add to our nation’s cultural diversity. They come with the best of intentions. But legal immigrants do not and should not enter easily. It’s a long, costly, draining, and often frustrating experience-by design. I say to legal immigrants: Welcome and good luck.

It comes down to this: we must take care of our own people first. Our policy to people born elsewhere should be clear: Enter by the law, or leave.
-2000

I’m a conservative on most issues but a liberal on health. It is an unacceptable but accurate fact that the number of uninsured Americans has risen to 42 million. Working out detailed plans will take time. But the goal should be clear: Our people are our greatest asset. We must take care of our own. We must have universal healthcare.

Our objective [should be] to make reforms for the moment and, longer term, to find an equivalent of the single-payer plan that is affordable, well-administered, and provides freedom of choice. Possible? The good news is, yes. There is already a system in place-the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program-that can act as a guide for all healthcare reform. It operates through a centralized agency that offers considerable range of choice. While this is a government program, it is also very much market-based. It allows 620 private insurance companies to compete for this market. Once a year participants can choose from plans which vary in benefits and costs.
-2000

Trump said he wasn’t surprised by the violence this week at the World Trade Organization meeting in Seattle. Protesters there accused the global organization of considering only the needs of giant multinational corporations at the expense of protecting the environment and worker rights. “I’m not so sure that anybody can dispute what’s happening in Seattle,” Trump said. “Jobs are going left and right. Foreign companies are ripping off the United States like never before.”
-1999

Trump said that US trade officials are viewed as “saps” around the world and have allowed the country to be ripped off in trade agreements. He called NAFTA a disaster and said leaders of other countries “can’t believe how easy it is to deal with the US.” He continued, “We are known as a bunch of saps. We need our best people to negotiate against the Japanese and many other countries.” As president, he would get the nation’s top business leaders - not diplomats - to negotiate for the country.
-1999

You only have to look at our trade deficit to see that we are being taken to the cleaners by our trading partners. We need tougher negotiations, not protectionist walls around America. We need to ensure that foreign markets are as open to our products as our country is to theirs. Our long-term interests require that we cut better deals with our world trading partners.
-2000

[Mr. Morden]

One thing that's clear to Trump is that he speaks to something that goes beyond the traditional Republican mantra. Something extremely deep and ugly, which, as a European, I possibly have more experience with than most Americans here. People like Cruz have been saying what they say for over three decades now: they preach to their own choir and the rest of America shrugs it off and increasingly laughs at it. Trump's public discourse has the potential to unleash a new wave of xenophobia, populism and just plain, raw hatred that, until recently, even the most hardline conservatives didn't dare to delve into.

I 100% agree with you that xenophobic "populism" is deep and ugly and needs to be fought at every turn.  But I think your analysis of what "hardline conservatives" do or don't delve into is altogether too rosy.  They're generally more careful to dog-whistle and message things more carefully, but that sort of nativist appeal never actually went away, and has always been a major source of votes.  I mean, I remember when California's Prop 187 made the news back in the 1990s; more recently, take a look at Joe Arpaio and Lou Barletta.  What Trump is doing is more a difference in style and intensity, then a difference in kind.

Out of curiosity, are you moved at all by the Ezra Klein argument that we should fear Trump more than the other candidates because he's not bound by any of the normal political conventions that would restrict his behavior?:

http://www.vox.com/2016/2/10/10956978/donald-trump-terrifying

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[DavidB.]

Out of curiosity, are you moved at all by the Ezra Klein argument that we should fear Trump more than the other candidates because he's not bound by any of the normal political conventions that would restrict his behavior?

This is a very important reason for me to fear him.

[Illiniwek]

H(uneducated)P

[Antonio the Sixth]

One thing that's clear to Trump is that he speaks to something that goes beyond the traditional Republican mantra. Something extremely deep and ugly, which, as a European, I possibly have more experience with than most Americans here. People like Cruz have been saying what they say for over three decades now: they preach to their own choir and the rest of America shrugs it off and increasingly laughs at it. Trump's public discourse has the potential to unleash a new wave of xenophobia, populism and just plain, raw hatred that, until recently, even the most hardline conservatives didn't dare to delve into.

I 100% agree with you that xenophobic "populism" is deep and ugly and needs to be fought at every turn.  But I think your analysis of what "hardline conservatives" do or don't delve into is altogether too rosy.  They're generally more careful to dog-whistle and message things more carefully, but that sort of nativist appeal never actually went away, and has always been a major source of votes.  I mean, I remember when California's Prop 187 made the news back in the 1990s; more recently, take a look at Joe Arpaio and Lou Barletta.  What Trump is doing is more a difference in style and intensity, then a difference in kind.

Out of curiosity, are you moved at all by the Ezra Klein argument that we should fear Trump more than the other candidates because he's not bound by any of the normal political conventions that would restrict his behavior?:

http://www.vox.com/2016/2/10/10956978/donald-trump-terrifying

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't share a lot of political stuff on Facebook, but I shared that.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Trump supporters are a real constituency of real people with real concerns. The fact that these people and their political culture are extrinsically distasteful and damaging shouldn't preclude empathy with and understanding of them.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Much better than ironic Trump supporters.

[Biden his time]

-BUMP-

[Xing]

I almost forgot that people put Trump in all capitals back in 2016. Anyway, while it's true that Democrats have not always been loyal to their labor roots, and some segments of the party have become more corporate-friendly, it still amazes me how easily Trump was able to con people into thinking he cared about the working class, given his personal and professional history. I don't think everyone who supports (or supported) Trump is a bad person, but I wish people did not subscribe so readily to the phrase "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." Just because Trump identified that many working class people were struggling to get by and called out the current political guard doesn't mean he's a friend of the working class. The fact that many politicians put their electoral odds above serving their constituents doesn't mean someone who isn't a politician will automatically do a better job or that they won't become subject to the same kind of corruption as politicians.

It's also true that some people opposed Trump for superficial reasons, but we can criticize the Democratic Party's failure to address economic inequality in a meaningful way without giving Trump/Republicans a free pass or supporting them as a way of "sending a message" to the left. I've become increasingly frustrated with how tribal and simplistic politics has become, and how almost all analysis is an extreme reaction to a position people don't like.

[S019]

very low, and I used to be one, I honestly kind of feel disgusted with my past self, and any Trump supporter who doesn't feel disgusted by their support of him, especially post 1/6 is fundamentally a terrible person.

[Hindsight was 2020]

very low, and I used to be one, I honestly kind of feel disgusted with my past self, and any Trump supporter who doesn't feel disgusted by their support of him, especially post 1/6 is fundamentally a terrible person.

Wait you used to be a ironic Trump supporter?! This explains so much 0.0

[Progressive Pessimist]

They're horrible people in general, but some I can sympathize with for being gullible or manipulated. They weren't born horrible people.

[S019]

very low, and I used to be one, I honestly kind of feel disgusted with my past self, and any Trump supporter who doesn't feel disgusted by their support of him, especially post 1/6 is fundamentally a terrible person.

Wait you used to be a ironic Trump supporter?! This explains so much 0.0

No, unironic, I grew up in a Republican family in a pretty Republican town.

[Leroy McPherson fan]

Well, at the time this thread was started I was fully with the #CruzCrew

But now, Chugga Chugga Choo Choo TRUMP TRAIN!

[Chips]

I think it depends on the type.

I'm willing to be buds with most Trump supporters. I was one myself for quite a while after all.

[Big Abraham]

The first page of this thread is very interesting – a peer into a now-seemingly ancient time in political history when the notion of being a Trump supporter was seen as satirical or the punchline to a joke.

[Mr. Morden]

The first page of this thread is very interesting – a peer into a now-seemingly ancient time in political history when the notion of being a Trump supporter was seen as satirical or the punchline to a joke.

It was on this forum, even when Trump was leading the GOP primary polls.  Virtually all the Republicans on the forum supported one of the other candidates in the 2016 primary.

[Big Abraham]

The first page of this thread is very interesting – a peer into a now-seemingly ancient time in political history when the notion of being a Trump supporter was seen as satirical or the punchline to a joke.

It was on this forum, even when Trump was leading the GOP primary polls.  Virtually all the Republicans on the forum supported one of the other candidates in the 2016 primary.

Well, Atlas Republicans have never been very representative of Republicans nationally, so I suppose this makes sense

[KoopaDaQuick 🇵🇸]

-BUMP-

Why? What purpose does this bump serve?

[Joe Republic]

The first page of this thread is very interesting – a peer into a now-seemingly ancient time in political history when the notion of being a Trump supporter was seen as satirical or the punchline to a joke.

It certainly was.  Most of us today still have no idea how or why anybody could take that man seriously.  Have you heard him speak?

[Fuzzy Bear]

Trump supporters are a real constituency of real people with real concerns. The fact that these people and their political culture are extrinsically distasteful and damaging shouldn't preclude empathy with and understanding of them.

If only Joe Biden was this liberal.