South Dakota Senate passes anti-transgender bill (UPDATE: It has been vetoed)

[Joe Biden is your president. Deal with it.]

I AM SO ASHAMED OF MY STATE NOW

[This account no longer in use.]

Per the article, it seems Daugaard has never met a transgender person, and never will, to 'ensure objectivity'.

[SteveRogers]

Per the article, it seems Daugaard has never met a transgender person, and never will, to 'ensure objectivity'.

Yeah i saw that too. I dont think he knows what any of those words mean.

[KingSweden]

I will admit/cop to not being particularly well-versed in transgender issues. I'm still wrapping my head around the whole concept of what transgenderism even is, to be honest. I don't really understand it or the pertinent issues that affect transpeople, though without hesitation I support policymakers trying to make every environment as inclusive and comfortable for people as possible, and for everyone to be able to feel comfortable and confident in their own skin.

What I don't understand is why a single-occupancy bathroom is such a horrible thing. I've seen signs that rather than the "Family" restroom or having both man and woman restroom symbols say "Inclusive," as in, "Anyone, whether cis or trans, can use this." Is there something that's horribly reactionary and offensive about that? Is an "Inclusive" bathroom meant for everyone, regardless of who they are or how they identify themselves? I'm legitimately asking.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

I will admit/cop to not being particularly well-versed in transgender issues. I'm still wrapping my head around the whole concept of what transgenderism even is, to be honest. I don't really understand it or the pertinent issues that affect transpeople, though without hesitation I support policymakers trying to make every environment as inclusive and comfortable for people as possible, and for everyone to be able to feel comfortable and confident in their own skin.

What I don't understand is why a single-occupancy bathroom is such a horrible thing. I've seen signs that rather than the "Family" restroom or having both man and woman restroom symbols say "Inclusive," as in, "Anyone, whether cis or trans, can use this." Is there something that's horribly reactionary and offensive about that? Is an "Inclusive" bathroom meant for everyone, regardless of who they are or how they identify themselves? I'm legitimately asking.

No.  You are normal.  It is school.  There should be a girls restroom/locker room a boys restroom/locker room and when economically feasible an all of the above for the people that want to opt out of the room assigned to their external genitalia.

In adult work places or post high school institutions I can see other accommodations being made.  Personally I think the obsession with sexuality in the United States is getting out of hand.  Even my European friends find it bemusing.  Just go to school and conform.  Explore your sexuality in your free time.  That's advice I would give anyone regardless of gender/orientation.  I can't say there was much I learned about sexuality or romantic relationships in high school that was of any use later in life.

And "transexual" covers a wide range of people.  Some transexuals have a very objective medical issue... others, not so much.  The habit of people lumping all transexuals into the same group out of ignorance is really not cool.  Just like a growing number of gay people don't want to be lumped in with any transexual, which is understandable.

[user12345]

I will admit/cop to not being particularly well-versed in transgender issues. I'm still wrapping my head around the whole concept of what transgenderism even is, to be honest. I don't really understand it or the pertinent issues that affect transpeople, though without hesitation I support policymakers trying to make every environment as inclusive and comfortable for people as possible, and for everyone to be able to feel comfortable and confident in their own skin.

What I don't understand is why a single-occupancy bathroom is such a horrible thing. I've seen signs that rather than the "Family" restroom or having both man and woman restroom symbols say "Inclusive," as in, "Anyone, whether cis or trans, can use this." Is there something that's horribly reactionary and offensive about that? Is an "Inclusive" bathroom meant for everyone, regardless of who they are or how they identify themselves? I'm legitimately asking.

Just go to school and conform.  Explore your sexuality in your free time.  That's advice I would give anyone regardless of gender/orientation. 

Seriously? So it's okay to be LGBTQ unless you're in public? Just conform and deny yourself the same rights hetro people get without a second though? If people had never started coming out in the first place LGBTQ rights wouldn't even be on anyone's political radar. Forcing people back into the closet causes denial and suicide.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

I will admit/cop to not being particularly well-versed in transgender issues. I'm still wrapping my head around the whole concept of what transgenderism even is, to be honest. I don't really understand it or the pertinent issues that affect transpeople, though without hesitation I support policymakers trying to make every environment as inclusive and comfortable for people as possible, and for everyone to be able to feel comfortable and confident in their own skin.

What I don't understand is why a single-occupancy bathroom is such a horrible thing. I've seen signs that rather than the "Family" restroom or having both man and woman restroom symbols say "Inclusive," as in, "Anyone, whether cis or trans, can use this." Is there something that's horribly reactionary and offensive about that? Is an "Inclusive" bathroom meant for everyone, regardless of who they are or how they identify themselves? I'm legitimately asking.

No.  You are normal.  It is school.  There should be a girls restroom/locker room a boys restroom/locker room and when economically feasible an all of the above for the people that want to opt out of the room assigned to their external genitalia.

In adult work places or post high school institutions I can see other accommodations being made.  Personally I think the obsession with sexuality in the United States is getting out of hand.  Even my European friends find it bemusing.  Just go to school and conform.  Explore your sexuality in your free time.  That's advice I would give anyone regardless of gender/orientation.  I can't say there was much I learned about sexuality or romantic relationships in high school that was of any use later in life.

And "transexual" covers a wide range of people.  Some transexuals have a very objective medical issue... others, not so much.  The habit of people lumping all transexuals into the same group out of ignorance is really not cool.  Just like a growing number of gay people don't want to be lumped in with any transexual, which is understandable.

Seriously? So it's okay to be LGBTQ unless you're in public?

Not sure how making accomodations in adult work places means people can't be LGBTQ in public.  And how exactly does one be "transexual in public"?  Do you lift up your skirt to reveal a penis on a street corner?  Also I never said anything about LGBTQ.  If you go back and actually read my post I said I am sensitive to gay people not wanting to be lumped in with transexuals and I actually went to great lengths to make a broad strokes differentiation between a couple of groups people have labeled as "transexual."

You really should read the post you are responding to.  It would cut down on confusion.

Go to school, hit the books, and move on.  Most of it is BS anyway regardless of gender/orientation.

[user12345]

I will admit/cop to not being particularly well-versed in transgender issues. I'm still wrapping my head around the whole concept of what transgenderism even is, to be honest. I don't really understand it or the pertinent issues that affect transpeople, though without hesitation I support policymakers trying to make every environment as inclusive and comfortable for people as possible, and for everyone to be able to feel comfortable and confident in their own skin.

What I don't understand is why a single-occupancy bathroom is such a horrible thing. I've seen signs that rather than the "Family" restroom or having both man and woman restroom symbols say "Inclusive," as in, "Anyone, whether cis or trans, can use this." Is there something that's horribly reactionary and offensive about that? Is an "Inclusive" bathroom meant for everyone, regardless of who they are or how they identify themselves? I'm legitimately asking.

No.  You are normal.  It is school.  There should be a girls restroom/locker room a boys restroom/locker room and when economically feasible an all of the above for the people that want to opt out of the room assigned to their external genitalia.

In adult work places or post high school institutions I can see other accommodations being made.  Personally I think the obsession with sexuality in the United States is getting out of hand.  Even my European friends find it bemusing.  Just go to school and conform.  Explore your sexuality in your free time.  That's advice I would give anyone regardless of gender/orientation.  I can't say there was much I learned about sexuality or romantic relationships in high school that was of any use later in life.

And "transexual" covers a wide range of people.  Some transexuals have a very objective medical issue... others, not so much.  The habit of people lumping all transexuals into the same group out of ignorance is really not cool.  Just like a growing number of gay people don't want to be lumped in with any transexual, which is understandable.

Seriously? So it's okay to be LGBTQ unless you're in public?

Not sure how making accomodations in adult work places means people can't be LGBTQ in public.  And how exactly does one be "transexual in public"?  Do you lift up your skirt to reveal a penis on a street corner?  Also I never said anything about LGBTQ.  If you go back and actually read my post I said I am sensitive to gay people not wanting to be lumped in with transexuals and I actually went to great lengths to make a broad strokes differentiation between a couple of groups people have labeled as "transexual."

You really should read the post you are responding to.  It would cut down on confusion.

Go to school, hit the books, and move on.  Most of it is BS anyway regardless of gender/orientation.

Here's a quote from your post "Just go to school and conform.  Explore your sexuality in your free time" Conforming to the usual heterosexual norms would mean hiding your gender or sexual identity.
Being transgender in public means being to use the restroom you identify with, not the sexual organs you have. Imagine a woman in a mans rest room just because she happens to have male genitalia. That's sure not "conforming".

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Hahaha, I knew Schadenfreude was illiterate, but it turns out he's a bigot too. Had mistaken him for 'holier than thou' tolerant, but nope. Even worse than that.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

I will admit/cop to not being particularly well-versed in transgender issues. I'm still wrapping my head around the whole concept of what transgenderism even is, to be honest. I don't really understand it or the pertinent issues that affect transpeople, though without hesitation I support policymakers trying to make every environment as inclusive and comfortable for people as possible, and for everyone to be able to feel comfortable and confident in their own skin.

What I don't understand is why a single-occupancy bathroom is such a horrible thing. I've seen signs that rather than the "Family" restroom or having both man and woman restroom symbols say "Inclusive," as in, "Anyone, whether cis or trans, can use this." Is there something that's horribly reactionary and offensive about that? Is an "Inclusive" bathroom meant for everyone, regardless of who they are or how they identify themselves? I'm legitimately asking.

No.  You are normal.  It is school.  There should be a girls restroom/locker room a boys restroom/locker room and when economically feasible an all of the above for the people that want to opt out of the room assigned to their external genitalia.

In adult work places or post high school institutions I can see other accommodations being made.  Personally I think the obsession with sexuality in the United States is getting out of hand.  Even my European friends find it bemusing.  Just go to school and conform.  Explore your sexuality in your free time.  That's advice I would give anyone regardless of gender/orientation.  I can't say there was much I learned about sexuality or romantic relationships in high school that was of any use later in life.

And "transexual" covers a wide range of people.  Some transexuals have a very objective medical issue... others, not so much.  The habit of people lumping all transexuals into the same group out of ignorance is really not cool.  Just like a growing number of gay people don't want to be lumped in with any transexual, which is understandable.

Seriously? So it's okay to be LGBTQ unless you're in public?

Not sure how making accomodations in adult work places means people can't be LGBTQ in public.  And how exactly does one be "transexual in public"?  Do you lift up your skirt to reveal a penis on a street corner?  Also I never said anything about LGBTQ.  If you go back and actually read my post I said I am sensitive to gay people not wanting to be lumped in with transexuals and I actually went to great lengths to make a broad strokes differentiation between a couple of groups people have labeled as "transexual."

being transgender has nothing to do with "exploring your sexuality" actually

[Taco Truck 🚚]

I will admit/cop to not being particularly well-versed in transgender issues. I'm still wrapping my head around the whole concept of what transgenderism even is, to be honest. I don't really understand it or the pertinent issues that affect transpeople, though without hesitation I support policymakers trying to make every environment as inclusive and comfortable for people as possible, and for everyone to be able to feel comfortable and confident in their own skin.

What I don't understand is why a single-occupancy bathroom is such a horrible thing. I've seen signs that rather than the "Family" restroom or having both man and woman restroom symbols say "Inclusive," as in, "Anyone, whether cis or trans, can use this." Is there something that's horribly reactionary and offensive about that? Is an "Inclusive" bathroom meant for everyone, regardless of who they are or how they identify themselves? I'm legitimately asking.

No.  You are normal.  It is school.  There should be a girls restroom/locker room a boys restroom/locker room and when economically feasible an all of the above for the people that want to opt out of the room assigned to their external genitalia.

In adult work places or post high school institutions I can see other accommodations being made.  Personally I think the obsession with sexuality in the United States is getting out of hand.  Even my European friends find it bemusing.  Just go to school and conform.  Explore your sexuality in your free time.  That's advice I would give anyone regardless of gender/orientation.  I can't say there was much I learned about sexuality or romantic relationships in high school that was of any use later in life.

And "transexual" covers a wide range of people.  Some transexuals have a very objective medical issue... others, not so much.  The habit of people lumping all transexuals into the same group out of ignorance is really not cool.  Just like a growing number of gay people don't want to be lumped in with any transexual, which is understandable.

Seriously? So it's okay to be LGBTQ unless you're in public?

Not sure how making accomodations in adult work places means people can't be LGBTQ in public.  And how exactly does one be "transexual in public"?  Do you lift up your skirt to reveal a penis on a street corner?  Also I never said anything about LGBTQ.  If you go back and actually read my post I said I am sensitive to gay people not wanting to be lumped in with transexuals and I actually went to great lengths to make a broad strokes differentiation between a couple of groups people have labeled as "transexual."

You really should read the post you are responding to.  It would cut down on confusion.

Go to school, hit the books, and move on.  Most of it is BS anyway regardless of gender/orientation.

Here's a quote from your post "Just go to school and conform.  Explore your sexuality in your free time" Conforming to the usual heterosexual norms would mean hiding your gender or sexual identity.
Being transgender in public means being to use the restroom you identify with, not the sexual organs you have. Imagine a woman in a mans rest room just because she happens to have male genitalia. That's sure not "conforming".

What are you talking about?  What planet do you live on where only heterosexual boys wear pants?  Man I must have gone to a real Bible beating religious right school because everyone boy/girl/tran/gay/lesbian wore pants.  Heck I even recall one real hardcore person put pants on a dog!  Imagine that.  Forcing human heterosexuality on a dog!  OMG Rick Santorium was right!  Now dogs are getting thrown into the mix!

[This account no longer in use.]

I will admit/cop to not being particularly well-versed in transgender issues. I'm still wrapping my head around the whole concept of what transgenderism even is, to be honest. I don't really understand it or the pertinent issues that affect transpeople, though without hesitation I support policymakers trying to make every environment as inclusive and comfortable for people as possible, and for everyone to be able to feel comfortable and confident in their own skin.

What I don't understand is why a single-occupancy bathroom is such a horrible thing. I've seen signs that rather than the "Family" restroom or having both man and woman restroom symbols say "Inclusive," as in, "Anyone, whether cis or trans, can use this." Is there something that's horribly reactionary and offensive about that? Is an "Inclusive" bathroom meant for everyone, regardless of who they are or how they identify themselves? I'm legitimately asking.

No.  You are normal.  It is school.  There should be a girls restroom/locker room a boys restroom/locker room and when economically feasible an all of the above for the people that want to opt out of the room assigned to their external genitalia.

In adult work places or post high school institutions I can see other accommodations being made.  Personally I think the obsession with sexuality in the United States is getting out of hand.  Even my European friends find it bemusing.  Just go to school and conform.  Explore your sexuality in your free time.  That's advice I would give anyone regardless of gender/orientation.  I can't say there was much I learned about sexuality or romantic relationships in high school that was of any use later in life.

And "transexual" covers a wide range of people.  Some transexuals have a very objective medical issue... others, not so much.  The habit of people lumping all transexuals into the same group out of ignorance is really not cool.  Just like a growing number of gay people don't want to be lumped in with any transexual, which is understandable.

Seriously? So it's okay to be LGBTQ unless you're in public?

Not sure how making accomodations in adult work places means people can't be LGBTQ in public.  And how exactly does one be "transexual in public"?  Do you lift up your skirt to reveal a penis on a street corner?  Also I never said anything about LGBTQ.  If you go back and actually read my post I said I am sensitive to gay people not wanting to be lumped in with transexuals and I actually went to great lengths to make a broad strokes differentiation between a couple of groups people have labeled as "transexual."

You really should read the post you are responding to.  It would cut down on confusion.

Go to school, hit the books, and move on.  Most of it is BS anyway regardless of gender/orientation.

Here's a quote from your post "Just go to school and conform.  Explore your sexuality in your free time" Conforming to the usual heterosexual norms would mean hiding your gender or sexual identity.
Being transgender in public means being to use the restroom you identify with, not the sexual organs you have. Imagine a woman in a mans rest room just because she happens to have male genitalia. That's sure not "conforming".

What are you talking about?  What planet do you live on where only heterosexual boys wear pants?  Man I must have gone to a real Bible beating religious right school because everyone boy/girl/tran/gay/lesbian wore pants.  Heck I even recall one real hardcore person put pants on a dog!  Imagine that.  Forcing human heterosexuality on a dog!  OMG Rick Santorium was right!  Now dogs are getting thrown into the mix!

There's no real way to put it except for in the completely honest way.

Are you f---ing high?

[Taco Truck 🚚]

There's no real way to put it except for in the completely honest way.

Are you f---ing high?

You have a problem with people that don't want their daughters showering with "penis having individuals"?  That is your definition of "high"?

A bathroom for girls.  A bathroom for boys.  And a bathroom for everyone else means someone is "high"?

[This account no longer in use.]

There's no real way to put it except for in the completely honest way.

Are you f---ing high?

You have a problem with people that don't want their daughters showering with "penis having individuals"?  That is your definition of "high"?

Of course I don't have a problem, and unisex restrooms and locker rooms should be implemented, but you are acting ridiculous, talking about how you should hide your gender and sexuality in public and simply conform to normalcy.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

There's no real way to put it except for in the completely honest way.

Are you f---ing high?

You have a problem with people that don't want their daughters showering with "penis having individuals"?  That is your definition of "high"?

Of course I don't have a problem, and unisex restrooms and locker rooms should be implemented, but you are acting ridiculous, talking about how you should hide your gender and sexuality in public and simply conform to normalcy.

You need to go back and read the posts in this thread.  You and at least two other posters are reading what you want to read and and then getting lathered up into a nice rage.  Like the posts about "checking genitalia".  Where do people live where their sex at birth isn't noted on their birth certificate?  I mean you guys are just strawmanning your way through this thread.  It's like you are bored and looking for stuff to be outraged about.

And, yeah I think sexuality in high school and below is over emphasized for everyone regardless of gender/orientation.  I also support school uniforms.  That is my opinion.  That is certainly no cause of vicious name calling.

Frankly I think a lot of people posting in this thread should read up a bit on the bill...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/17/politics/south-dakota-school-restrooms-transgender-bill/

Not sure how giving such a document the benefit of the doubt makes one a "bigot".  You may disagree with the bill and it's supporters but it is hardly something that should fuel the unhinged mouth foaming rage displayed in this thread.

[This account no longer in use.]

Because we're the ones who are unhinged and raging.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

Because we're the ones who are unhinged and raging.

Yes, the people who didn't bother to read the bill nor the thread and just launched into name calling.  Sad that when you actually read the bill and my posts it turns out you agree with both.  Was it really so hard to just read before posting?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Does anyone actually shower in school? I mean my school had showers (that were closed off in stalls, because ... obvious reasons) but nobody actually used them.

And yes, group showers are a relic of a different time. No need for any school to have them, tbh.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

Does anyone actually shower in school? I mean my school had showers (that were closed off in stalls, because ... obvious reasons) but nobody actually used them.

And yes, group showers are a relic of a different time. No need for any school to have them, tbh.

You live on a different continent.  Things are different on this continent, in this country, and they vary from state to state and municipality to municipality.  But to answer your question, it is normal in the United States for people to shower after swimming.

As far as you wanting to send hundreds of millions of dollars to us to strip out all the plumbing that you deem a "relic", I'm sure the tax payer thanks you.  But word of advice, send it to Flint, MI first.  Their issue is a bit more pressing than anything discussed in this thread.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I think all schools should have modern infrastructure (very amusing use of the "whatabout" excuse though irt Flint!). Group showers in schools are something that is being phased out everywhere, under pressure from parents (a cursory google search reveals this is happening in the US as well). They discourage children from sports and are an unpleasant relic of a bygone-era of education. I mean this isn't even about your delusional hysteria around transpeople, which I have noted before. It's about modern education.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

I think all schools should have modern infrastructure (very amusing use of the "whatabout" excuse though irt Flint!). Group showers in schools are something that is being phased out everywhere, under pressure from parents (a cursory google search reveals this is happening in the US as well). They discourage children from sports and are an unpleasant relic of a bygone-era of education. I mean this isn't even about your delusional hysteria around transpeople, which I have noted before. It's about modern education.

That's nice, but our $18 trillion in debt doesn't give us much wiggle room.  Sorry, man there a lot of things I want but I have to work within the confines of our budget.  The situation in Flint is causing a lot more morbidity and mortality than group high school showers and even that isn't getting funded.  Part of growing up is learning to prioritize.

Bottom line no one is going to fund ripping out every single group shower in the the thousands of high schools across America.  Might as well move on and discuss something else that could actually happen and more importantly give you much better value for money.  I 100% acknowledge this topic is a big deal for you but regardless of how either of us feel about it your plan isn't going to happen.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Well it is, err, happening, you moron. As schools are periodically refurbished and retrofitted, changing facilities are modernised. What is so hard to understand about that?

[Figueira]

Does anyone actually shower in school? I mean my school had showers (that were closed off in stalls, because ... obvious reasons) but nobody actually used them.

And yes, group showers are a relic of a different time. No need for any school to have them, tbh.

Never really happened in my school.

[Virginiá]

Being transgender in public means being to use the restroom you identify with, not the sexual organs you have. Imagine a woman in a mans rest room just because she happens to have male genitalia. That's sure not "conforming".

The problem here I think is that in school (and well, everywhere), is that people are very uncomfortable with it. I think there is a legitimate, non-bigoted side to that as well. My concern is using, say, a public restroom and a guy pretending to be a transgendered woman comes in just to get his rocks off poking and peeking around. How do we know they are trans? I think in quite a lot of cases, perhaps a majority, it will not be discernible and that makes me very uncomfortable. If I knew they were legitimately trans, I wouldn't mind at all, but there is so much room for abuse here - And there will be abuse.

As for school, it is a much more restricted environment so I think playing tricks would be less relevant, but we come down to the uncomfortable factor again. I'm not sure how to address that other than having unisex bathrooms. However, I personally don't want to have people feel excluded but I also don't feel like everyone should be put in such an uncomfortable situation, either. Everyone's feelings on this matter should be considered in one way or another. So I dunno what the best solution is for that.

It's going to be awhile longer before society is more comfortable with this. Change doesn't happen overnight, and this has been kind of quick.

[Penelope]

Being transgender in public means being to use the restroom you identify with, not the sexual organs you have. Imagine a woman in a mans rest room just because she happens to have male genitalia. That's sure not "conforming".

The problem here I think is that in school (and well, everywhere), is that people are very uncomfortable with it. I think there is a legitimate, non-bigoted side to that as well. My concern is using, say, a public restroom and having a guy pretending to be a transgendered woman comes in just to get his rocks off poking and peeking around. How do we know they are trans? There are a lot of cases where it won't be easily possible to discern that at all and it makes me very uncomfortable. If I knew they were legitimately trans, I wouldn't mind at all, but there is so much room for abuse here - And there will be abuse.

Trans woman:


Creepy sex pervert:


Transgender individuals generally do not start using the bathroom of their identified gender until they "pass" - i.e., once society begins to see them as their identified gender as opposed to the gender they were assigned at birth. So the difference between "creepy sex pervert" and "actual transgender individual" will be pretty obvious. You will never notice the transgender individual, and you will immediately notice the creepy sex pervert.

I understand that society is uncomfortable with this right now. But it's better to protect the minority of transgender individuals who are often invisible to society, than to ensure that the vast majority of the rest of the world is not uncomfortable. The discomfort that the rest of the world experiences can be unlearned, and people can grow to become more accepting with the next decade or two. But the discomfort that transgender individuals already experience from the way society views them is not something that can just "go away."