UK 'Brexit' Referendum on the EU

[ag]

Gibralter would probably best trying to make it as a micronation. Then it could at least be sovereign over its own borders.

Actually, I do not envy Gibraltareans at all. Spain will be on a path of war.

[ag]

All in all the result was a big win for Father Kremlin.

Alas...

[ag]

The Treaty of Utrecht says that Gibraltar if it were to leave English-owned status would automatically be ceded Spain iirc. (Just found out) so that rules out the micronation idea.

You did not know this?

[ag]

There is very little chance of a referendum in NI, but there is a substantial chance Sinn Fein withdraw from the executive and direct law imposed again.

Yep. The main question is, if they are going to be bombs again.

[ag]

Wow some of you seriously have zero understanding of Gibraltar or its people, they would NEVER agree to be part of Spain. The Gibraltans consider themselves to be a unique people (ethnically they are too) and not at all Spanish, they despise Spain's attempts to control them and while many may be disillusioned with the EU referendum the latter things do not change. Any Spanish attempt to exert influence over Gibraltar will cause a massive backlash on the rock, if you think they will embrace Spain with open arms you have zero idea about the Gibraltans or this issue. If they do decide to leave the UK (which I would still consider unlikely) it would be as a microstate that is either in the EU or is outside the EU but comes under the free market/most other EU rules. If you want to comment on the UK or Brexit from some distant part of the world please try to do your homework first.

Same goes for Northern Ireland, hell will freeze over before the ruling DUP even considers a referendum...

Gibraltar is trapped.

The problem in NI is not the matter of a vote, parliamentary or popular. The question is: will the violence resume. I am afraid, it will.

[ag]

Gibralter would probably best trying to make it as a micronation. Then it could at least be sovereign over its own borders.

Actually, I do not envy Gibraltareans at all. Spain will be on a path of war.

Is this serious?

The only thing that I can say is: give us the monkeys back and ¡Malvinas Argentinas!

I meant it figuratively

Travel and banking transactions though, will be a prime issue in the negotiations. I mean, 30K British hostages are a nice thing to have when you are talking to their government

[ag]

The Treaty of Utrecht says that Gibraltar if it were to leave English-owned status would automatically be ceded Spain iirc. (Just found out) so that rules out the micronation idea.

Well yes but centuries old treaties can probably be changed. If it couldn't the Gibraltar would almost certainly refuse to leave the UK and the UK government could well get them a different deal with the EU than the rest of the UK. Trust me Gibraltan's fear of Spain's attempts to destroy their unique culture by submerging them back into Spain and their visceral dislike of the Spanish government is much stronger than their love of the EU.

Gibraltarians will stay British, no question. But making their lives comfortable will cost the Brits some.

[ag]

The Treaty of Utrecht says that Gibraltar if it were to leave English-owned status would automatically be ceded Spain iirc. (Just found out) so that rules out the micronation idea.

Well yes but centuries old treaties can probably be changed. If it couldn't then Gibraltar would almost certainly refuse to leave the UK and the UK government could well get them a different deal with the EU than the rest of the UK. Trust me Gibraltan's fear of Spain's attempts to destroy their unique culture by submerging them back into Spain and their visceral dislike of the Spanish government is much stronger than their love of the EU.

It's a treaty that would have to be negotiated with Spain. With a likely PP government. They won't play ball. Basically Gibraltar is at the mercy of the British negotiators - if they are sold out to try and get Spain on the British side there is little legally the Gibraltar people can do about it.

Actually, yeah. Gibraltareans must really hope Rajoy does not stay. Or else, they could be exchanged for Scotland

[ag]

The Treaty of Utrecht says that Gibraltar if it were to leave English-owned status would automatically be ceded Spain iirc. (Just found out) so that rules out the micronation idea.

Well yes but centuries old treaties can probably be changed. If it couldn't then Gibraltar would almost certainly refuse to leave the UK and the UK government could well get them a different deal with the EU than the rest of the UK. Trust me Gibraltan's fear of Spain's attempts to destroy their unique culture by submerging them back into Spain and their visceral dislike of the Spanish government is much stronger than their love of the EU.

A joint sovereignty does not necessarily implies that the identity or culture of Gibraltar is going to be submerged. The people of Gibraltar and their Andalusian neighbours have a peaceful cohabitation. I don't know why it should have to change. The inhabitants of the Rock would be still British citizens. Also, you seem to ignore the problems that the status of Gibraltar causes on tax evasion (the Rock is a tax haven), smuggling or the occasional disputes on the waters of the Bay of Algeciras. Joint sovereignty or a fair renegotiation of the Utrecht treaties (by which Menorca island was taken off from Spain, to be later recovered) could solve some of these problems, not stupid chauvinism.

Well, up till now "joint sovereignty" has been a very dirty word/phrase for nearly all Gibraltarians. Perhaps, this is the time for the Spanish government to start working on hearts and minds

[ag]

So, Gibraltar government is in talks with the Scottish government on maintaining the UK membership in the EU. They are also considering approaching Northern Ireland. I mean, why not let England and Wales join Jersey, Guernsey and Man as non-EU parts of the realm

Neat idea. Pity, it won´t fly.

[ag]

Seems like Boris Johnson is not in the Commons today. At least, he has not been heard from in the debate (where pretty much everybody else, of consequence or not, has spokent). Dear me, perhaps the guy is sick? What else would explain such reticense?

[ag]

Germany, of course, rules out any informal talks before Article 50 is triggered.