African American "culture"

[Bono]

incidentally you really should read Ayn Rand, opebo. You might start to re-think your worldview there. And there's even sex scenes in some of her books ).

I read all of Rand's writings in my early teenage years. 

Re-read them (all of them, at least the big fiction works). And then  pick up Heinlein (he's got some real odd ideas, and he's a bit subtler). Or go serious economics - read some stuff by Hayek, or possibly 1960's-era Greenspan. Anything to knock some sense into your head .

Why would anyone read a 1000 page book twice??

[Richard]

I believe African-American culture has been one of the seminal contributions to our nation's life, and has enriched us and altered our perceptions immeasureably. However, it bothers me that some people can't accept its raw and unvarnished aspects, and consider themselves too refined for it.

Enriched us how exactly?  But teaching us to hate homosexuals?  (like most Jamaican music?)  Or perhaps to treat women like pieces of trash?  Honestly.  Please.  What did AA contribute?  You know what they say.  You can't spell crap without rap in it.

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And WTF does this have to do with AA?  Perhaps you need to get a better education if you're unable to comprehend what she writes.  I don't seem to have that problem and English isn't even my first language.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

The African part refers to the race. And what is American about Richius?

Uhhh... Africa is a continent, not a skin color. And as Philip pointed out, Canada is part of the Americas.

Africa is a continent, but "African American" refers to an ethnicity, not merely where your parents lived.  The dictionary defintion is "a Black American of African ancestry."

So you have to be black to be African American.  For instance, people of Egyptian or Moroccan descent are not African American, nor are whites who emigrated to Africa for any reason at any time. 

You also have to be American, as in the United States of America.  "America" is not a continent, it is a country.  A black African Canadian could describe himself as "African Canadian" or "African North American" but not "African American."

How exactly does any of this apply to Richius?  He's African American only as a joke about how people sometimes interpret phrases too literally.

[Richard]

Africa is a continent, but "African American" refers to an ethnicity, not merely where your parents lived.  The dictionary defintion is "a Black American of African ancestry."

Um, Merriam Webster defines it as "an American of African and especially of black African descent."  So clearly, we're talking about both black Americans and those that came from Africa.

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No.  See previous statement.

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Incorrect.  Blacks in Canada are also called African Americans.

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Actually, you're wrong.  America is two continents.  The country is called the United States of America.

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Tell that to all the black Canadians please.

[J. J.]

I believe African-American culture has been one of the seminal contributions to our nation's life, and has enriched us and altered our perceptions immeasureably. However, it bothers me that some people can't accept its raw and unvarnished aspects, and consider themselves too refined for it.

I also find it difficult to consider Ayn Rand in any way literary. She was unable to style prose beyond the point of didactic cant, and seemed to confuse selfishness with a coherent philosophical system. At least Nietzsche could turn a phrase and offer a fresh opinion.

I, oddly, agree with Migrendel.  I would add, however, that while some aspects of Black culture are "raw and unvarnished," my experience is that this is only an aspect, not the entire culture.  It would be like saying heavy metal represent White culture.  Most on the people in my neighborhood, which is predominately Black, do not listen to hip hop (they are older).

I would also add that a large part of Black culture is Southern culture, due to influx of Black people from the South to the urban North in the first half of the 20th Century.

While a Rand fan, somewhat, I also have agree that her fiction style, with long monologues, is somewhat tedious.  I, however, have found even less redeeming with Nietzsche.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Africa is a continent, but "African American" refers to an ethnicity, not merely where your parents lived.  The dictionary defintion is "a Black American of African ancestry."

Um, Merriam Webster defines it as "an American of African and especially of black African descent."  So clearly, we're talking about both black Americans and those that came from Africa.

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No.  See previous statement.

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Incorrect.  Blacks in Canada are also called African Americans.

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Actually, you're wrong.  America is two continents.  The country is called the United States of America.

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Tell that to all the black Canadians please.

I gave the definition from Dictionary.com.

Here is how Wikipedia describes it:

African Americans, also known as Afro-Americans or Black Americans, are an ethnic group in the United States of America whose ancestors, usually in predominant part, were indigenous to West and sub-Saharan Africa. Many African Americans also have European and/or Native American ancestors. ... Despite its literal meaning, the term properly does not include whites, Asians or Semites of African origin. (emphasis mine)

[Richard]

I gave the definition from Dictionary.com.

*shrug* I use Webster's, or even better, the best authority on the English dictionary: the Oxford English Dictionary.

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I really couldn't give a flying  what someone wrote on Wikipedia.  I can go and change it if I want to.  *shrug*  The fact of tha matter is, according to the English dictionary, I am an African American.

[opebo]

... A continuing legacy of the slavery era is the damage done to Black culture by destroying its roots and superimposing a Western culture upon it.   

More PC rubbish. Quit complaining about your past and lets move forward.

Haha, very convenient for the Southern White, eh?  It is like a muderer saying oh well yes, I killed him, but it was all in the past..  lets move on!

I'm surprised that you, Opebo, don't believe in forgiveness, especially considering that StatesRights never killed any blacks-- only white people from centuries before did.  I'd expect a fellow anti-death penalty person to believe in at least some degree of forgiveness, but apparently for you a man who murders should not be put to death, but a man who is distantly related to past murderers should be given unrelenting scrutiny.  You, sir, are a hypocrite.

It isn't an issue of being distantly related to the slavers - it is an issue of being direct heirs of them.  Whites present day economic well being stems largely from the enslavement of the blacks and the theft from the Indians.  To ask these people just forget such things is adding insult to injury. 

I believe African-American culture has been one of the seminal contributions to our nation's life, and has enriched us and altered our perceptions immeasureably. However, it bothers me that some people can't accept its raw and unvarnished aspects, and consider themselves too refined for it.

Enriched us how exactly?  But teaching us to hate homosexuals?  (like most Jamaican music?)  Or perhaps to treat women like pieces of trash?  Honestly.  Please.  What did AA contribute?  You know what they say.  You can't spell crap without rap in it.

No, the great majority of whites also hate homosexuals and treat women like pieces of trash.  They just do it without rythm.

[Ebowed]

It isn't an issue of being distantly related to the slavers - it is an issue of being direct heirs of them.  Whites present day economic well being stems largely from the enslavement of the blacks and the theft from the Indians.  To ask these people just forget such things is adding insult to injury. 

I'm sorry man, but you're crazy.  Not only am I not automatically responsible for any enslavement/theivery just because I am white, but blacks/Indians shouldn't still be upset about something that happened to their ancestors, not them.  Seriously, we can just move on.  I never enslaved any black people, why do I owe them reparations?

[patrick1]

... A continuing legacy of the slavery era is the damage done to Black culture by destroying its roots and superimposing a Western culture upon it.   

More PC rubbish. Quit complaining about your past and lets move forward.

So blacks weren't stripped of their culture or you just care to ignore this  fact. I don't feel this should be any excuse for bad behavior but it does explain how things came to be this way.  Carribean blacks are almost always more sucessful when they come to the United States and many that I have spoken to rail against the Black American culture.  The Caribbean slave culture (equally as cruel) was structured in a way that led to more of a cultural continuity.  This led to a more traditional stress on hard work and a firmer family stucture.  

[Sam Spade]

African-American culture used to be quite vibrant and creative.

Then came the aura of victimology and it has turned into garbage.

Quite the generalization.  Again, it's like me saying that white culture is garbage because all it consists of is eating fast food and being obese.

Well, since this thread is about culture and sociology and these types of studies naturally lead to generalizations, my observations are obviously going to be rather general in nature.

I realize that not all black culture is about victimology and all white culture is not about redneck stereotypes, as it is tending more and more to be nowadays.

However, these are functionally the dominant types and the reason why I made such generalizations.

[Sam Spade]

I believe African-American culture has been one of the seminal contributions to our nation's life, and has enriched us and altered our perceptions immeasureably. However, it bothers me that some people can't accept its raw and unvarnished aspects, and consider themselves too refined for it.

I also find it difficult to consider Ayn Rand in any way literary. She was unable to style prose beyond the point of didactic cant, and seemed to confuse selfishness with a coherent philosophical system. At least Nietzsche could turn a phrase and offer a fresh opinion.

Of course.  African-American culture (or black culture or whatever) has been of major importance in America, musically, artwise, etc.

But to call artistic expressions like "rap" as being artistic or cultural seminal events in American history is rather amusing.

Sure, it's rather cool to go around in your car playing deafening rap albums talking about your "b*tches" and "hoes".  But to call such events as cultural advancements in American art or African-American art is rather hilarious.

[bgwah]

I don't think of gangsta rap as African-American culture. There are many other aspects, such as jazz or religion.

Rap is just as popular with white kids as it is with black kids anyway.

[opebo]

It isn't an issue of being distantly related to the slavers - it is an issue of being direct heirs of them.  Whites present day economic well being stems largely from the enslavement of the blacks and the theft from the Indians.  To ask these people just forget such things is adding insult to injury. 

I'm sorry man, but you're crazy.  Not only am I not automatically responsible for any enslavement/theivery just because I am white, but blacks/Indians shouldn't still be upset about something that happened to their ancestors, not them.  Seriously, we can just move on.  I never enslaved any black people, why do I owe them reparations?

Well, assuming you are a poor, you don't.  Though realistically any economic well-being you have is partially the result of slavery and continent-stealing.  Those who would  have to foot the bill are those who have the bulk of the 'ill-gotten' inheritance - the owning class.

I'm not saying this will ever happen, but it is certainly reasonable of the blacks and indians to want it to happen.  I'm sure if there were more of them or they had all the guns it would happen.  

I'm not disputing the validity of telling them to 'move on', but at least be honest and add 'because we have the guns and the power we are going to stay on top, and you are going to stay on the bottom', rather than claim that you are not the beneficiaries of slavery and theft.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

I gave the definition from Dictionary.com.

*shrug* I use Webster's, or even better, the best authority on the English dictionary: the Oxford English Dictionary.

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I really couldn't give a flying f**ck what someone wrote on Wikipedia.  I can go and change it if I want to.  *shrug*  The fact of tha matter is, according to the English dictionary, I am an African American.

Can you give me a link to your definition?  The one on dictionary.com, which unequivocally refers only to black Americans, is also the American Heritage Dictionary definition.

[Beet]

I gave the definition from Dictionary.com.

*shrug* I use Webster's, or even better, the best authority on the English dictionary: the Oxford English Dictionary.

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I really couldn't give a flying f**ck what someone wrote on Wikipedia.  I can go and change it if I want to.  *shrug*  The fact of tha matter is, according to the English dictionary, I am an African American.

Can you give me a link to your definition?  The one on dictionary.com, which unequivocally refers only to black Americans, is also the American Heritage Dictionary definition.

Perhaps Richius wants to be the white Michael Jackson

[PBrunsel]

Ebonics and hip-hop, even here in Iowa!

Oh boy!

[??????????]

... A continuing legacy of the slavery era is the damage done to Black culture by destroying its roots and superimposing a Western culture upon it.   

More PC rubbish. Quit complaining about your past and lets move forward.

So blacks weren't stripped of their culture or you just care to ignore this  fact. I don't feel this should be any excuse for bad behavior but it does explain how things came to be this way.

No, the fact is many blacks adopted white culture upon their "confinement" here in the US. But really I don't care to much about it. People should quit blaming their current problems on some condition that happened over 100 years ago. Many of the blacks here just have a lousy work ethic and convienently blame it on "well my ancestors were slaves and I'm still oppressed". That argument is total garbage. It would be like me complaining about not still being rich because my family lost its' throne and title and therefore I'm going to be lazy and quit working because I'm owed something.

[J. J.]

... A continuing legacy of the slavery era is the damage done to Black culture by destroying its roots and superimposing a Western culture upon it.   

More PC rubbish. Quit complaining about your past and lets move forward.

So blacks weren't stripped of their culture or you just care to ignore this  fact. I don't feel this should be any excuse for bad behavior but it does explain how things came to be this way.

No, the fact is many blacks adopted white culture upon their "confinement" here in the US. But really I don't care to much about it. People should quit blaming their current problems on some condition that happened over 100 years ago. Many of the blacks here just have a lousy work ethic and convienently blame it on "well my ancestors were slaves and I'm still oppressed". That argument is total garbage. It would be like me complaining about not still being rich because my family lost its' throne and title and therefore I'm going to be lazy and quit working because I'm owed something.

I object to the word "many."

[Richard]

I gave the definition from Dictionary.com.

*shrug* I use Webster's, or even better, the best authority on the English dictionary: the Oxford English Dictionary.

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I really couldn't give a flying f**ck what someone wrote on Wikipedia.  I can go and change it if I want to.  *shrug*  The fact of tha matter is, according to the English dictionary, I am an African American.

Can you give me a link to your definition?  The one on dictionary.com, which unequivocally refers only to black Americans, is also the American Heritage Dictionary definition.

http://www.m-w.com/

The Oxford one requires a subscription which you probably don't have.

[??????????]

... A continuing legacy of the slavery era is the damage done to Black culture by destroying its roots and superimposing a Western culture upon it.   

More PC rubbish. Quit complaining about your past and lets move forward.

So blacks weren't stripped of their culture or you just care to ignore this  fact. I don't feel this should be any excuse for bad behavior but it does explain how things came to be this way.

No, the fact is many blacks adopted white culture upon their "confinement" here in the US. But really I don't care to much about it. People should quit blaming their current problems on some condition that happened over 100 years ago. Many of the blacks here just have a lousy work ethic and convienently blame it on "well my ancestors were slaves and I'm still oppressed". That argument is total garbage. It would be like me complaining about not still being rich because my family lost its' throne and title and therefore I'm going to be lazy and quit working because I'm owed something.

I object to the word "many."

What is more preferable? Over 50% or under?

[J. J.]

... A continuing legacy of the slavery era is the damage done to Black culture by destroying its roots and superimposing a Western culture upon it.   

More PC rubbish. Quit complaining about your past and lets move forward.

So blacks weren't stripped of their culture or you just care to ignore this  fact. I don't feel this should be any excuse for bad behavior but it does explain how things came to be this way.

No, the fact is many blacks adopted white culture upon their "confinement" here in the US. But really I don't care to much about it. People should quit blaming their current problems on some condition that happened over 100 years ago. Many of the blacks here just have a lousy work ethic and convienently blame it on "well my ancestors were slaves and I'm still oppressed". That argument is total garbage. It would be like me complaining about not still being rich because my family lost its' throne and title and therefore I'm going to be lazy and quit working because I'm owed something.

I object to the word "many."

What is more preferable? Over 50% or under?

How about "some."  I actually know very few that do.

[opebo]

... A continuing legacy of the slavery era is the damage done to Black culture by destroying its roots and superimposing a Western culture upon it.   

More PC rubbish. Quit complaining about your past and lets move forward.

So blacks weren't stripped of their culture or you just care to ignore this  fact. I don't feel this should be any excuse for bad behavior but it does explain how things came to be this way.

No, the fact is many blacks adopted white culture upon their "confinement" here in the US. But really I don't care to much about it. People should quit blaming their current problems on some condition that happened over 100 years ago. Many of the blacks here just have a lousy work ethic and convienently blame it on "well my ancestors were slaves and I'm still oppressed". That argument is total garbage. It would be like me complaining about not still being rich because my family lost its' throne and title and therefore I'm going to be lazy and quit working because I'm owed something.

I object to the word "many."

I object to the word 'throne'.  What geneological huckster got ahold of you StatesRights?

Anyway, it is absurd to say that blacks are 'lazy', as during their history most of them have been poor.  Poor people have to work incredibly hard just to survive.

[The Dowager Mod]

And CULTURE is in quotes why?

[opebo]

And CULTURE is in quotes why?

Because Richius likes to insult black people.