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Author Topic: Could these people be elected President?  (Read 11058 times)
nini2287
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« on: June 01, 2005, 12:28:40 am »
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Somebody who meets all of the qualifications, except they were born in a U.S. embassy in a foreign country.

Somebody who meets all of the qualifications, except they were born in a foreign embassy in the U.S.

Somebody whose 35th birthday is the day after Election Day.

A convicted felon who had been released from jail after serving a term without parole.

A convicted felon who had been released from jail after serving a term with parole.

A convicted felon who had their conviction overturned while in jail.

Somebody who had lived their first fourteen years of their life in the U.S., moved out, and have been back in the U.S. for less than fourteen years.

Somebody who was born in the U.S., moved out before their fourteenth birthday, and have been back in the U.S. for less than fourteen years, but overall has lived in the U.S. for greater than 14 years.

Holds dual citizenship.

Previously renounced U.S. citizenship, but has since become a citizen again.

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« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2005, 02:01:51 am »
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Somebody who meets all of the qualifications, except they were born in a U.S. embassy in a foreign country.
Yes. John McCain was born in Panama but his parents are American

Somebody who meets all of the qualifications, except they were born in a foreign embassy in the U.S.
Yes. You have to have American parents

Somebody whose 35th birthday is the day after Election Day.
Yes. Someone who turns 35 after January 20th, though, I don't know.

A convicted felon who had been released from jail after serving a term without parole. Don't know

A convicted felon who had been released from jail after serving a term with parole. Don't know

A convicted felon who had their conviction overturned while in jail. Yes

Somebody who had lived their first fourteen years of their life in the U.S., moved out, and have been back in the U.S. for less than fourteen years.
Probably

Somebody who was born in the U.S., moved out before their fourteenth birthday, and have been back in the U.S. for less than fourteen years, but overall has lived in the U.S. for greater than 14 years.
Yes

Holds dual citizenship.
I don't think the US allows dual citizenship.

Previously renounced U.S. citizenship, but has since become a citizen again. I think that means a 14 year wait.
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nini2287
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« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2005, 02:03:40 am »
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Somebody who had lived their first fourteen years of their life in the U.S., moved out, and have been back in the U.S. for less than fourteen years.
Probably

Somebody who was born in the U.S., moved out before their fourteenth birthday, and have been back in the U.S. for less than fourteen years, but overall has lived in the U.S. for greater than 14 years.
Yes

Since the first choice would also mean 14 combined years, if the second choice is Yes, I guess the first choice is Yes then as well.  Thanks for your help
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jfern
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« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2005, 05:13:56 am »
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Somebody whose 35th birthday is the day after Election Day.


It's the age when they take office, not on election day. Ted Kennedy turned 30 after his first Senate election, but before he took office.

As for the convicted felons, I doubt there is any federal law, but certain states might not allow them to be on the ballot. However, rouge electors might still be able to vote for them.

Arnold has dual Austrian-American citizenship. If he had been born with American citizenship, I think he'd be OK.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2005, 05:16:05 am by jfern »Logged
J. J.
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« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2005, 07:32:40 am »
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Somebody who meets all of the qualifications, except they were born in a U.S. embassy in a foreign country.
Yes

Somebody who meets all of the qualifications, except they were born in a foreign embassy in the U.S.
If his.her parents were US citizens, yes.

Somebody whose 35th birthday is the day after Election Day.

If before being sworn yes (and there is precedent in Congress)

A convicted felon who had been released from jail after serving a term without parole.

Yes

A convicted felon who had been released from jail after serving a term with parole.

Yes

A convicted felon who had their conviction overturned while in jail.

Yes

Somebody who had lived their first fourteen years of their life in the U.S., moved out, and have been back in the U.S. for less than fourteen years.

No, but they could serve one the 14  years are up.

Somebody who was born in the U.S., moved out before their fourteenth birthday, and have been back in the U.S. for less than fourteen years, but overall has lived in the U.S. for greater than 14 years.

No.

Holds dual citizenship.

Yes.

Previously renounced U.S. citizenship, but has since become a citizen again.

Probably

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J. J.

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« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2005, 08:02:44 am »
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I don't think the US allows dual citizenship.

Yes we do.
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« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2005, 03:15:29 pm »
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What about if they were born in Puerto Rico?
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« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2005, 04:20:19 pm »
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Previously renounced U.S. citizenship, but has since become a citizen again.



No.  The US will nto allow you to gain ctizenship after you renounce it.  Once you renounce your status as a US citizen, you can never be one again.
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jfern
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« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2005, 06:19:15 pm »
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What about if they were born in Puerto Rico?

Yes
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J. J.
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« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2005, 08:41:38 pm »
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Previously renounced U.S. citizenship, but has since become a citizen again.



No. The US will nto allow you to gain ctizenship after you renounce it. Once you renounce your status as a US citizen, you can never be one again.

Suppose Congress passes a law stating that you can.  Is their a constitutional bar?
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J. J.

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« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2005, 09:32:57 pm »
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Previously renounced U.S. citizenship, but has since become a citizen again.



No.  The US will nto allow you to gain ctizenship after you renounce it.  Once you renounce your status as a US citizen, you can never be one again.

Suppose Congress passes a law stating that you can.  Is their a constitutional bar?

In that case you would probably count as a naturalized citizen.
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J. J.
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« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2005, 10:24:41 pm »
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Previously renounced U.S. citizenship, but has since become a citizen again.



No. The US will nto allow you to gain ctizenship after you renounce it. Once you renounce your status as a US citizen, you can never be one again.

Suppose Congress passes a law stating that you can. Is their a constitutional bar?

In that case you would probably count as a naturalized citizen.

Why?  You are a citizen by birth, a "natural born citizen," you are currently a citizen, and you've been here for 14 years.  I'm not seeing a constitutional bar.
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J. J.

"Actually, .. now that you mention it...." 
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"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

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« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2005, 11:09:07 pm »
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Previously renounced U.S. citizenship, but has since become a citizen again.



No.  The US will nto allow you to gain ctizenship after you renounce it.  Once you renounce your status as a US citizen, you can never be one again.

Suppose Congress passes a law stating that you can.  Is their a constitutional bar?

In that case you would probably count as a naturalized citizen.

Why?  You are a citizen by birth, a "natural born citizen," you are currently a citizen, and you've been here for 14 years.  I'm not seeing a constitutional bar.

You stopped being a natural born citizen the instant you renounced.   If you regain your citizenship you would count as a citizen by the means you regained it. 

The US takes renunciation very seriously.  By doing so you sever all ties with the US.
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J. J.
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« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2005, 11:45:14 pm »
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Previously renounced U.S. citizenship, but has since become a citizen again.



No. The US will nto allow you to gain ctizenship after you renounce it. Once you renounce your status as a US citizen, you can never be one again.

Suppose Congress passes a law stating that you can. Is their a constitutional bar?

In that case you would probably count as a naturalized citizen.

Why? You are a citizen by birth, a "natural born citizen," you are currently a citizen, and you've been here for 14 years. I'm not seeing a constitutional bar.

You stopped being a natural born citizen the instant you renounced. If you regain your citizenship you would count as a citizen by the means you regained it.

The US takes renunciation very seriously. By doing so you sever all ties with the US.

My point is, that might be in legislation, but it is not in the Constitution.  If Congress wants to pass a law (ill advised as I might think it is) that says "re-claiming" citizenship is as simple as a declaring you are citizen again, he probably could constitutionally be elected.

I can assure you, I would not support the inaction of such a law.
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J. J.

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« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2005, 11:16:07 am »
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And what if born in Guam, Virgin Islands, Samoa ?

Marshall, Marianas, Micronesia ?
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« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2005, 04:11:04 pm »
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And what if born in Guam, Virgin Islands, Samoa ?

Marshall, Marianas, Micronesia ?

Yes, US territory is considered valid.  For example, John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone, which at that time was US territory.
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« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2005, 08:53:07 pm »
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The physical location of where you were born doesn't matter. It's if your parents are American citizens, in which case you would become one. People living in territories are American citizens too, so if your parents lived there it would be valid.

Interestingly, Barry Goldwater was not born in a state. He was born in Arizona Territory, 3 years before it became a state.
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« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2005, 10:04:22 am »
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The physical location of where you were born doesn't matter. It's if your parents are American citizens, in which case you would become one. People living in territories are American citizens too, so if your parents lived there it would be valid.

Interestingly, Barry Goldwater was not born in a state. He was born in Arizona Territory, 3 years before it became a state.

No, that is not true.  Native-born means that you have to have been born on native soil.  Territories count since they are American territory, but if you were born in say, India, you cannot be President.
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« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2005, 08:47:34 am »
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The physical location of where you were born doesn't matter. It's if your parents are American citizens, in which case you would become one. People living in territories are American citizens too, so if your parents lived there it would be valid.

Interestingly, Barry Goldwater was not born in a state. He was born in Arizona Territory, 3 years before it became a state.

No, that is not true. Native-born means that you have to have been born on native soil. Territories count since they are American territory, but if you were born in say, India, you cannot be President.
The census considers such persons as "native" IIRC though...although I believe you're right nonetheless.

What about the following....
born on a US army or air force base abroad?
born in a hospital off a US base abroad, living at said base from birth?
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« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2005, 11:23:25 am »
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The physical location of where you were born doesn't matter. It's if your parents are American citizens, in which case you would become one. People living in territories are American citizens too, so if your parents lived there it would be valid.

Interestingly, Barry Goldwater was not born in a state. He was born in Arizona Territory, 3 years before it became a state.

No, that is not true. Native-born means that you have to have been born on native soil. Territories count since they are American territory, but if you were born in say, India, you cannot be President.

Actually the term is "natural-born" citizen. If your parents were US citizens living abroad, your still natural-born.

Besides that, anyone who thinks there would be something wrong with someone born to US citizens living abroad being president is a f'ucking idiot.
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« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2005, 02:22:12 am »
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The physical location of where you were born doesn't matter. It's if your parents are American citizens, in which case you would become one. People living in territories are American citizens too, so if your parents lived there it would be valid.

Interestingly, Barry Goldwater was not born in a state. He was born in Arizona Territory, 3 years before it became a state.

No, that is not true. Native-born means that you have to have been born on native soil. Territories count since they are American territory, but if you were born in say, India, you cannot be President.
The Constitutional requirement is to be a "natural born citizen", that is someone who is a citizen due to the nature of one's birth, as opposed to being naturalized.  Persons born in Puerto Rico are natural born citizens only because Congress has passed laws to that effect.  While children born abroad to two US Citizen parents are natural born citizens, not all children born to only one US Citizen parent are natural born citizens.  The parent has had to have lived in the US or it territories for a certain period of time.  The particular qualifications has changed over time, and at one time was restricted to children with a US citizen father.
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« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2005, 02:26:36 am »
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No, that is not true. Native-born means that you have to have been born on native soil. Territories count since they are American territory, but if you were born in say, India, you cannot be President.
George Romney was born in Mexico.  When he was running for president, there were suggestions that he was not eligible, but these were generally discounted.
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« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2005, 04:09:01 am »
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Holds dual citizenship.
I don't think the US allows dual citizenship.


Yes we do. I have dual citizenship.
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« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2005, 02:25:07 pm »
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Holds dual citizenship.
I don't think the US allows dual citizenship.


Yes we do. I have dual citizenship.

Dual citizenship is rare. 

How did you get it, PADem?
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« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2005, 08:10:26 pm »
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Previously renounced U.S. citizenship, but has since become a citizen again.
No. The US will nto allow you to gain ctizenship after you renounce it. Once you renounce your status as a US citizen, you can never be one again.
Suppose Congress passes a law stating that you can. Is their a constitutional bar?
In that case you would probably count as a naturalized citizen.
Why? You are a citizen by birth, a "natural born citizen," you are currently a citizen, and you've been here for 14 years. I'm not seeing a constitutional bar.
I would argue that a natural citizen is one whose citizenship exists by virtue of his natural birth alone. If a person is born in the United States, then renounces his citizenship, but later resumes it, his citizenship is by virtue of his later resumption (which amounts to a naturalization), not by virtue of his birth.
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