Do you know any poor white people?
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  Do you know any poor white people?
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Question: Do they exist?
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Author Topic: Do you know any poor white people?  (Read 17838 times)
rob in cal
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« Reply #75 on: March 07, 2016, 12:07:31 PM »

   I think what Bernie probably meant (I hope anyway), is that NAM's are  more likely to be poor than whites or Asians, on a per capita basis, and thus issues of poverty, imprisonment, crime, social dysfunctionality impact them on average more than people from wealthier races.
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d32123
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« Reply #76 on: March 07, 2016, 12:17:24 PM »

  I think what Bernie probably meant (I hope anyway), is that NAM's are  more likely to be poor than whites or Asians, on a per capita basis, and thus issues of poverty, imprisonment, crime, social dysfunctionality impact them on average more than people from wealthier races.

I think it's more likely that he's an old white dude trying and failing to speak the language of his young progressive base.  I think it's a good thing that he (and Clinton) are talking about things like white privilege, intersectionality, etc. on the campaign trail but it's obvious that they're just parroting talking points they've probably been debriefed on by their advisers.  At a fundamental level, I'd be shocked if either Sanders or Clinton really "get" it, and clumsy statements like this are revealing.
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sg0508
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« Reply #77 on: March 07, 2016, 12:19:37 PM »

Plenty.  South FL is littered with poor people, many of whom have nobody to blame but themselves.  There are plenty of people here who literally do nothing with their lives or have crappy jobs, wasted their educational opportunities, etc.  That goes across all races, creeds, etc.

South FL is a wasteland for that.
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KingSweden
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« Reply #78 on: March 07, 2016, 12:21:05 PM »

I challenge anyone to drive through Eastern Washington or Northern Idaho and claim that the people there enjoy any kind of "white privilege."

Their are plenty of poor white people in western Washington, too. The Pacific coast has been pretty devastated economically (minus the really tourist-y parts), and having grown up in rural-ish Snohomish County, I can say there are a lot of poor white places with heavy drug problems there, too (Granite Falls, Arlington, Camano Island, most anywhere in the foothills/mountains of Snoho, Skagit, and Whatcom).

Granted, crossing from Spokane County into Kootenai County is quite the experience. Oh boy.

Yeah, the poorest communities in Washington are 1. rez towns 2. Hispanic towns in Central WA and 3. the poor white towns along the Pacific coast. 

Camano Island is dear to my heart, but yeah away from the beaches that whole area is not doing well economically. nothing like Aberdeen, though...
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Clarko95 📚💰📈
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« Reply #79 on: March 07, 2016, 12:21:26 PM »

This thread is just...wow.




But yes, I work with them frequently.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #80 on: March 07, 2016, 12:22:09 PM »

I think it's more likely that he's an old white dude trying and failing to speak the language of his young progressive base.  I think it's a good thing that he (and Clinton) are talking about things like white privilege, intersectionality, etc. on the campaign trail but it's obvious that they're just parroting talking points they've probably been debriefed on by their advisers.  At a fundamental level, I'd be shocked if either Sanders or Clinton really "get" it, and clumsy statements like this are revealing.
Yeah, this.

Or it might just be a campaign tactic on Sanders' part not in order to attract minorities, but in order to attract classist New Yorkers who would now be inclined to vote for Hillary Smiley
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pho
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« Reply #81 on: March 07, 2016, 12:24:20 PM »

I make about 1200$ a month after taxes, have no car, am 15000$ in debt, have two broken leases, and can't afford to further my education.

So yes, we exist.
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KingSweden
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« Reply #82 on: March 07, 2016, 12:31:34 PM »

[snip]

My critique is that dismissing their plight under he guise of "white privilege" hurts progressivism as much as it hurts the rural poor. It is morally unacceptable to rationalize that it is okay to help one marginalized group but dismiss another because they have "white privilege" or are "racist." I do not think that was your point, at least I did not interpret it as such, but that's the vibe I got from some other posters.

I understand what you're saying then, and I think it's fair. I think that looking at the typical poor, white, racist rural voter it's fair to say that they've been exploited in a lot of ways in their life, and that's terrible, but that doesn't mean white privilege doesn't also exist and that they haven't benefited from it some ways while still remaining a member of a poor and marginalized group. I hope that's not me dismissing their plight.

And, like I said, from the bottom of my heart I hope the Democratic addresses those issues and represents poor, rural whites even if they don't vote for us.

However, what you're saying is not the vibe I got from some other posters and that's why I reacted so strongly. The vibe I was getting was that because rural, poor whites are exploited in some ways that absolves them of responsibility for their actions, whether that's what they say, what they do, or who they vote for. Some people in this thread, to me, seem perfectly happy to bend over backwards to make excuses for blatant racism on that basis. I want the Democratic party to try to do right by poor, rural whites but I also want it to be unafraid to call out racism and sexism, not shuffle their feet and make excuses.

I don't think you're being dismissive at all.
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Beefalow and the Consumer
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« Reply #83 on: March 07, 2016, 12:40:39 PM »

The difference between being poor and white and poor and black is, if you are poor and white, and you DO somehow leave the ghetto, you LEAVE the ghetto.  You can wipe the dust from your feet and be done with it.  When you're black in this country, because we live in a racist society, you never, ever, truly leave the ghetto.  The assumptions about you that are embedded in our culture linger just beneath the surface, when they aren't simply laid bare.

To be a person of color in this country means no matter how wealthy or successful you are, you are never free from the bull****.
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Virginiá
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« Reply #84 on: March 07, 2016, 01:02:24 PM »

But it doesn't mean that progressive politics cannot present real options to people in Appalachia etc who still deal with incredible poverty and lack of opportunities. Instead of people like Bill Maher saying that coal should die, there's no transitional plan to new industries or new careers. Yes, coal is not sustainable as the basis of a state's economy, and both Dem and GOPs are to blame for letting people think it will be.

I agree with you in principle, but Democrats blew it in West Virginia. They neglected to seriously address that state's issues and eventually the people got fed up. The writing was on the wall at the turn of the century and yet they did nothing worth mentioning. It's like they thought that because WV had such a pro-Democratic history, that they didn't have to do anything.

My thoughts are this: If Democrats have no intention to truly push hard for solutions to Appalachia's problems, then they need to do those people a favor and come clean about exactly what priority they are going to get.

It's a bit perplexing too, because a large monetary investment in infrastructure (for jobs at least), retraining and smart policies to attract businesses/some manufacturing could have helped the people a lot, but alas there was nothing.
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #85 on: March 07, 2016, 01:05:05 PM »

I challenge anyone to drive through Eastern Washington or Northern Idaho and claim that the people there enjoy any kind of "white privilege."

Their are plenty of poor white people in western Washington, too. The Pacific coast has been pretty devastated economically (minus the really tourist-y parts), and having grown up in rural-ish Snohomish County, I can say there are a lot of poor white places with heavy drug problems there, too (Granite Falls, Arlington, Camano Island, most anywhere in the foothills/mountains of Snoho, Skagit, and Whatcom).


Granted, crossing from Spokane County into Kootenai County is quite the experience. Oh boy.


Huh

Do people actually think that Coeur d' Alene or north Idaho in general is some sort of poverty pocket? It's a reasonably affluent community by the standards of Idaho. North Idaho has also never struck me as being particularly poor either.

Spokane, on the other hand, strikes me as a community where there are many poor white people.
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KingSweden
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« Reply #86 on: March 07, 2016, 01:11:27 PM »

I challenge anyone to drive through Eastern Washington or Northern Idaho and claim that the people there enjoy any kind of "white privilege."

Their are plenty of poor white people in western Washington, too. The Pacific coast has been pretty devastated economically (minus the really tourist-y parts), and having grown up in rural-ish Snohomish County, I can say there are a lot of poor white places with heavy drug problems there, too (Granite Falls, Arlington, Camano Island, most anywhere in the foothills/mountains of Snoho, Skagit, and Whatcom).


Granted, crossing from Spokane County into Kootenai County is quite the experience. Oh boy.


Huh

Do people actually think that Coeur d' Alene or north Idaho in general is some sort of poverty pocket? It's a reasonably affluent community by the standards of Idaho. North Idaho has also never struck me as being particularly poor either.

Spokane, on the other hand, strikes me as a community where there are many poor white people.

Coeur d'Alene has some pockets of poverty, though it's pretty nice overall. It's once you get outside of the city proper that it gets more depressed.

Spokane is... Well, it's Spokane. A few years ago Northeast Spokane was one of the poorest ZIP codes in the state.
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RI
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« Reply #87 on: March 07, 2016, 01:14:05 PM »

Spokane has plenty of poor white people. Logan neighborhood downtown in one of those "don't walk at night" neighborhoods (though Spokane has quite nice parts, too). But as you head from Spokane eastward, it gets more and more redneck-y. Liberty Lake is a step down, and then you hit State Line and its nothing but Cabella's and trailer parks until you get to Coeur d'Alene itself, which is an all right town.
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KingSweden
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« Reply #88 on: March 07, 2016, 01:17:44 PM »

Spokane has plenty of poor white people. Logan neighborhood downtown in one of those "don't walk at night" neighborhoods (though Spokane has quite nice parts, too). But as you head from Spokane eastward, it gets more and more redneck-y. Liberty Lake is a step down, and then you hit State Line and its nothing but Cabella's and trailer parks until you get to Coeur d'Alene itself, which is an all right town.

Liberty Lake is actually pretty nice, I think you're thinking of Otis Orchards and Newman Lake, which are north of I-90
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realisticidealist
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« Reply #89 on: March 07, 2016, 01:18:57 PM »

Spokane has plenty of poor white people. Logan neighborhood downtown in one of those "don't walk at night" neighborhoods (though Spokane has quite nice parts, too). But as you head from Spokane eastward, it gets more and more redneck-y. Liberty Lake is a step down, and then you hit State Line and its nothing but Cabella's and trailer parks until you get to Coeur d'Alene itself, which is an all right town.

Liberty Lake is actually pretty nice, I think you're thinking of Otis Orchards and Newman Lake, which are north of I-90

Possibly. I haven't spent a lot of time out there.
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IceSpear
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« Reply #90 on: March 07, 2016, 01:31:28 PM »

Actually IceSpear does kind of have a point. I have seen people here argue, for example, that the Democrats should abandon environmentalism in an effort to win West Virginia, which is incredibly ridiculous.

However, "Other people on Atlas are bigoted too!" isn't an excuse to be bigoted. Classism is a form of bigotry.

My point was that hicks are the only "protected group" among Atlas lefties. Xenophobia, racism, sexism, and homophobia is brushed off as "legitimate respectful political disagreement." Only when you bash poor white people does a swarm of angry posters come out of the woodwork to condemn you as literally Hitler. You know, despite the fact that class can be changed, whereas race, sexuality, etc. cannot be. In fact, my initial posts were bait just to prove this very point! It worked beautifully.

Let's be real for a second: A typical Atlas leftie would trade the votes of 1,000 black people for a single racist white Appalachian conservative coal miner. They would trade Virginia for West Virginia just because it makes them "feel good." I think I'll just take it as some weird compulsion/quirk (lord knows Atlas has no shortage of those), because the alternative is too sad to think about.
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IceSpear
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« Reply #91 on: March 07, 2016, 01:38:18 PM »
« Edited: March 07, 2016, 01:40:08 PM by IceSpear »

P.S.: Does anyone seriously believe a generic racist, sexist, or homophobic comment would've attracted nearly as much attention or condemnation as posting a few pictures of hicks did? I rest my case.

99.9% white male Atlas loves to coddle white males. News at 11.
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Famous Mortimer
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« Reply #92 on: March 07, 2016, 02:05:07 PM »

The difference between being poor and white and poor and black is, if you are poor and white, and you DO somehow leave the ghetto, you LEAVE the ghetto.  You can wipe the dust from your feet and be done with it.  When you're black in this country, because we live in a racist society, you never, ever, truly leave the ghetto.  The assumptions about you that are embedded in our culture linger just beneath the surface, when they aren't simply laid bare.

To be a person of color in this country means no matter how wealthy or successful you are, you are never free from the bull****.

Seriously, what does this melodramatic BS even mean? Do you mean, even if a Black person is rich, they're "still in the ghetto" because if they're walking down a street at night, someone crosses the street to avoid them? No, if you're rich, you're rich. Even if a salesperson asks you if they can help you find anything (which they also ask White people) you are still rich.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #93 on: March 07, 2016, 02:07:06 PM »

This is one of the most embarrassing threads I've seen on Atlas for a while, which is saying something. I will post more later. Feel free to buy some popcorn in the interim.
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traininthedistance
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« Reply #94 on: March 07, 2016, 02:08:44 PM »

The difference between being poor and white and poor and black is, if you are poor and white, and you DO somehow leave the ghetto, you LEAVE the ghetto.  You can wipe the dust from your feet and be done with it.  When you're black in this country, because we live in a racist society, you never, ever, truly leave the ghetto.  The assumptions about you that are embedded in our culture linger just beneath the surface, when they aren't simply laid bare.

To be a person of color in this country means no matter how wealthy or successful you are, you are never free from the bull****.

Seriously, what does this melodramatic BS even mean? Do you mean, even if a Black person is rich, they're "still in the ghetto" because if they're walking down a street at night, someone crosses the street to avoid them? No, if you're rich, you're rich. Even if a salesperson asks you if they can help you find anything (which they also ask White people) you are still rich.

Um

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Louis_Gates_arrest_controversy
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #95 on: March 07, 2016, 02:13:55 PM »
« Edited: March 07, 2016, 02:26:49 PM by Californian Tony Returns »

This thread:
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EliteLX
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« Reply #96 on: March 07, 2016, 02:24:09 PM »

God some of you people live in lolly land.
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cxs018
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« Reply #97 on: March 07, 2016, 02:27:56 PM »

Clinton supporters making fun of those "damn inbred rednecks" is ironic considering it was ugly sexist racist New Hampshire women that put Hillary's campaign back on track in 2008 lol.

I feel like there's a bit of a story behind you referring to New Hampshire women as "ugly".
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Maxwell
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« Reply #98 on: March 07, 2016, 02:36:19 PM »

God some of you people live in lolly land.

For once I'm agreeing with you on this. Oh my.
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Yank2133
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« Reply #99 on: March 07, 2016, 02:56:20 PM »

I challenge anyone to drive through Eastern Washington or Northern Idaho and claim that the people there enjoy any kind of "white privilege." The intersectional-heavy rhetoric you see from the campus left and Salon-esque sources these days are dangerous not because they prevent downscale whites in the South from voting Democrat - that ship sailed decades ago - but because they color the policy prescriptions offered by progressive politicians who, outside of (to his credit) Bernie Sanders seem desperate to be never seen helping rural voters (middle-class, urban liberal whites have all kinds of policy demands Democrats are quick to cave to including but not limited to higher minimum wage, rent control, mass transit, social policies, etc. All of which I am supportive of, but still).

It should also be pointed out that there are plenty of poor or downscale whites who don't live in Appalachia but in cities and suburbs who are not culturally "poor white" as many modern progressives think of it, and these men and women certainly don't suffer from any privilege themselves.

I've literally lived in poor, rural, 99% white areas all my life so I think I'm entitled to my opinion. You, however, apparently drove through Idaho once and now you think you're the God appointed defender of working class whites, which I guess says everything anyone needs to know about this forum.

And when NY said that attitude was much more condescending then anything he said he was telling the truth.

I live a few miles from the Idaho border and have spent considerable time there, nor am I "defending" poor whites. I'm not attacking them, either, nor did I at any point attack your opinion. Jeez.

Yeah, yeah you are. Let's be clear about this. When you blame "intersectional-heavy rhetoric you see from the campus left and Salon-esque sources" for "[coloring] the policy prescriptions offered by progressive politicians" you're both being incredible condescending towards and defending poor, rural whites at the same time.

You're being condescending because you're saying that maybe if we use slightly different words to couch our policies there will be some great proverbial come-to-Jesus moment where rural voters will start voting in progressive politicians, like people in Appalachia, or the south, or Idaho, or wherever are all just that ing stupid and don't have informed, deeply & sincerely held conservative beliefs about what's right for America.


These people are conservatives. If you put a white, male left-wing farmer on TV and have him couch everything in conservative buzz words it won't change anything. As long as he holds the same sets of policy positions as other Democrats, he'll still lose. You, and other people in this thread, have no idea how ing condescending it sounds to act like poor, rural whites are not just as informed and educated in voting in the politicians they vote in as you lot in the suburbs. They are.

You're defending them, because by blaming "intersectional-heavy rhetoric you see from the campus left and Salon-esque sources" for "[coloring] the policy prescriptions offered by progressive politicians" you're letting them off the hook for the things they say, do, and support. If they vote in racist, vile politicians like Donald Trump, or God knows how many other examples, they have no responsibility. It's all the fault of the "campus left" (you know, the Democratic base) and their "intersectional-heavy rhetoric" for alienating them, for not sucking up to them hard enough, or it's societies fault, or whatever. Of course, no one has to pander to the nasty "campus left" to get them not to vote in vile people...

It might sound crazy to hear this from a Democrat, but I do believe in a degree of self responsibility. I do understand how hard it is growing up in rural areas, in trailer parks, and I hope to God the Democratic party represents the interests of poor, rural whites, even if they don't vote for us (and they never will.) HOWEVER, I do not believe in always letting people off the hook for their actions. These poor, rural whites are ideological conservatives, they're educated, they know what they're doing, and a lot of them are great people. I've known racists who were great husbands, brought their wives flowers every weekend, great fathers, volunteered, ect.

Again though, a lot of them are racists. A lot of them are sexists. And they are ideological conservatives. And in those respects, they're vile. It's not the Democratic party's fault, or anyone else's responsibility when they vote in racist, sexist, conservative politicians. The voters who elect these politicians are responsible for them. And they have to be called out, they have to be criticized. And I'm sick to ing death of seeing Democrats, in the Democratic ing party, which is supposed to stand up against racism constantly bending over backwards to make excuses for these people. Just, please, stop.

Rant over.

Bingo.

To paraphrase a great political philosopher of our time. "Rural voters know exactly what they are doing".

The only thing Democrats should do is not cut them out of the loop when it comes to policy(which they don't, for example Kentucky and West Virginia are two of the biggest benefactors of Obamacare), that would be immoral and wrong. But there is no need for us to pander to them and give them a "pass" for their racism and bigotry.
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