The Case for Kasich as POTUS
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 12:47:52 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Election Archive
  Election Archive
  2016 U.S. Presidential Election
  The Case for Kasich as POTUS
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5
Author Topic: The Case for Kasich as POTUS  (Read 3657 times)
Averroës Nix
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,289
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2016, 10:20:38 AM »

So, when do you start showing your PowerPoint to Republican delegates in anticipation of a contested convention?

Seriously, are trying to use the Atlas as a focus group?
Logged
PeteB
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,874
Canada


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2016, 10:40:46 AM »

So, when do you start showing your PowerPoint to Republican delegates in anticipation of a contested convention?

Seriously, are trying to use the Atlas as a focus group?

Power point? I have none Smiley?

Focus group? Atlas is anything but an average focus group! Smiley

I am posting this because I think that the strange "Trump fascination" has obscured the real candidate that the GOP has, in order to win this election.  Let's face it, both polling and anecdotal evidence show that only one of the three GOP candidates (Kasich) has a chance in the GE (and this is before the Democratic machine goes into overdrive and pillories Trump and Cruz). 

In normal election cycles, the original post in this thread would be like a claim that water is wet.  But since everyone is confused by the Trump juggernaut, people are looking at logic, and just saying that somehow it is illogical!
Logged
Slander and/or Libel
Figs
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,338


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.83

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2016, 10:42:37 AM »

I don't know that anybody's arguing necessarily that Kasich wouldn't be a better general election candidate than Trump or Cruz. Only that he stands next to no chance at winning the primary by any but faintly sleazy means.
Logged
PeteB
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,874
Canada


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2016, 10:52:54 AM »

I don't know that anybody's arguing necessarily that Kasich wouldn't be a better general election candidate than Trump or Cruz. Only that he stands next to no chance at winning the primary by any but faintly sleazy means.

And that is exactly one of my points.  Even many Trump supporters concede that Kasich is a "decent candidate", who could win the GE.  And at the end of the day, that is all that matters.  And the primary voters should be told of the possible repercussions in the most direct way possible.  If they still want to make that "protest" vote, that is their democratic right, but they should be under no illusions that "somehow" there will be no  repercussions in the general election!
Logged
Slander and/or Libel
Figs
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,338


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.83

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2016, 10:55:44 AM »

I don't know that anybody's arguing necessarily that Kasich wouldn't be a better general election candidate than Trump or Cruz. Only that he stands next to no chance at winning the primary by any but faintly sleazy means.

And that is exactly one of my points.  Even many Trump supporters concede that Kasich is a "decent candidate", who could win the GE.  And at the end of the day, that is all that matters.  And the primary voters should be told of the possible repercussions in the most direct way possible.  If they still want to make that "protest" vote, that is their democratic right, but they should be under no illusions that "somehow" there will be no  repercussions in the general election!

You are free to make the argument that electability is all that matters. They are free to reject it, as they have been doing. Or not just to reject it out of hand, but to reject it because they disagree with it (whether or not we think their reasons for disagreement are legitimate). Characterizing every Trump vote as a "protest" vote is condescending in exactly the way a lot of these people feel they've been talked down to for years.

Side note: It sounds like I'm defending Trump voters, and I'm not. I think they're making a stupid decision for bad reasons. But talking down to them won't help.
Logged
rob in cal
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,978
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2016, 11:06:15 AM »

   Kasich brings some interesting "identity politics" attributes to the table.  Slavic on both sides of his parentage, I also read that all of his grandparents were immigrants. Raised Catholic as well, but now goes to an Anglican church. And of course, his father was a mailman.
   Depending on how the economy and stock market are doing as the year goes on, his performance as Budget Committee chair in the 90's is something he may be able to stress, and the late 90's awesome budget surpluses is something that thrifty savers like myself would find appealing. 
And of course his father was a mailman.
Logged
PeteB
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,874
Canada


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2016, 11:26:18 AM »

   Kasich brings some interesting "identity politics" attributes to the table.  Slavic on both sides of his parentage, I also read that all of his grandparents were immigrants. Raised Catholic as well, but now goes to an Anglican church. And of course, his father was a mailman.
   Depending on how the economy and stock market are doing as the year goes on, his performance as Budget Committee chair in the 90's is something he may be able to stress, and the late 90's awesome budget surpluses is something that thrifty savers like myself would find appealing. 
And of course his father was a mailman.

But you didn't mention the fact that his father was a mailman. Smiley
Logged
PeteB
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,874
Canada


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2016, 11:45:43 AM »

I don't know that anybody's arguing necessarily that Kasich wouldn't be a better general election candidate than Trump or Cruz. Only that he stands next to no chance at winning the primary by any but faintly sleazy means.

And that is exactly one of my points.  Even many Trump supporters concede that Kasich is a "decent candidate", who could win the GE.  And at the end of the day, that is all that matters.  And the primary voters should be told of the possible repercussions in the most direct way possible.  If they still want to make that "protest" vote, that is their democratic right, but they should be under no illusions that "somehow" there will be no  repercussions in the general election!

You are free to make the argument that electability is all that matters. They are free to reject it, as they have been doing. Or not just to reject it out of hand, but to reject it because they disagree with it (whether or not we think their reasons for disagreement are legitimate). Characterizing every Trump vote as a "protest" vote is condescending in exactly the way a lot of these people feel they've been talked down to for years.

Side note: It sounds like I'm defending Trump voters, and I'm not. I think they're making a stupid decision for bad reasons. But talking down to them won't help.

Just to be clear - there are many people who are denigrating Trump voters - I am not one of them.  As I said in another thread, Trump tapped into some real unresolved issues such as border security, homegrown terrorism, trade imbalances and the runaway "political correctness" train.  He also spoke for those who are statistically employed but are realistically underemployed and living on the fringes (although I sincerely doubt he realized that he was doing so, at the time). 

The reason why I still say that a vote for Trump is a protest vote is because he is not offering realistic solutions.  Bombastic Reality TV rhetoric aside, he has had plenty of time to gather a competent team, come up with positions and offer workable solutions that would match the severity of the problems.  Instead of that, he has been lazy and volatile, coming up with "fly by your pants" strategies and made-for-TV moments.  All I am saying is that the primary voters, who are registering their displeasure by voting Trump, will realize sooner or later that he is an entertainer, not a leader! 
Logged
Хahar 🤔
Xahar
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 41,731
Bangladesh


Political Matrix
E: -6.77, S: 0.61

WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2016, 12:35:50 PM »

To whom are you telling these things? All of us already know all of this.
Logged
PeteB
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,874
Canada


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2016, 12:56:21 PM »

To whom are you telling these things? All of us already know all of this.

So can I take that as 100% endorsement of this thread, by Atlas? Smiley
Logged
PeteB
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,874
Canada


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2016, 03:28:00 PM »

Apparently the Dallas Morning News editorial board also follows Atlas closely. This just came out, pretty much using the arguments from this thread:

Editorial: Kasich can still succeed

http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/20160317-editorial-kasich-can-still-succeed.ece
Logged
rob in cal
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,978
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2016, 04:02:43 PM »

   Is this perhaps an indicator of how young so many Atlas people are, but I find it interesting that so few on this board focus on Kasich as budget committee chair in the mid-90's.  To me that was his finest hour, and I remember watching CNN after various showdown meetings with President Clinton during the govt shutdown of late 1995 and Kasich coming out and talking about how he was getting Clinton's agreement to move federal spending to the glide path to surplus.
   I'm guessing that for many on this board the mid-90's must seem like a long time ago.
Logged
win win
dxu8888
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 855


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2016, 04:25:29 PM »

No thanks.
PRO WAR neocon
Amnesty lover
Establishment
No Charsima

Kasich is the same stuff as Jeb bush, marco rubio. We don't want him.
Logged
PeteB
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,874
Canada


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2016, 05:58:04 PM »

   Is this perhaps an indicator of how young so many Atlas people are, but I find it interesting that so few on this board focus on Kasich as budget committee chair in the mid-90's.  To me that was his finest hour, and I remember watching CNN after various showdown meetings with President Clinton during the govt shutdown of late 1995 and Kasich coming out and talking about how he was getting Clinton's agreement to move federal spending to the glide path to surplus.
   I'm guessing that for many on this board the mid-90's must seem like a long time ago.

Obviously not a lot of old geezers here Smiley!

But you are right - just the fact that many do not understand the complexity of being POTUS means they are underestimating experience and, in doing so,  risking putting someone like Trump in the WH, who could trigger a trade war or a major recession. Or even comparing someone like Cruz (a clearly intelligent person but someone who hasn't run a lemonade stand) to someone like Kasich (who would probably be fully operational to handle every lever of government by the inauguration)!!
Logged
PeteB
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,874
Canada


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2016, 08:01:04 PM »

Part III - Kasich the Anti-Establishment Choice

One reason to pick Kasich, that I haven't touched on may sound counterintuitive at first, but hear me out - Kasich is the ultimate anti-establishment candidate! It may surprise many, who automatically assume outsiders are independent and insiders are beholden to the party establishment.

Just the opposite is true in this case - I think that the establishment is very scared that they will have very little influence in the Kasich administration!

Why do I say that? Like Reagan in 1980, Kasich is his own person and will not be influenced, controlled or manipulated by party establishment. Yes, he may be more willing to compromise and horsetrade, but he will define and push his own agenda. If he needs to work across the aisle, to bypass GOP obstruction, he will. Just look at the Medicaid expansion in OH -yes, the establishment was concerned about supporting Obamacare, but there's your proof how independent Kasich is!

Compare that to either Cruz or Trump who are so "green" that, in spite of all their rhetoric, they will have to heavily rely on GOP infrastructure to get anything done! Or, to use a practical example, many were surprised that Lindsey Graham is supporting Cruz and not Kasich. But Kasich doesn't need Lindsey Graham to define a Middle East agenda - he knows what he wants to do and how to achieve that. Cruz on the other hand, for all his talk about carpet bombing Syria or Iraq knows squat about the ME. Where do you think Graham will have more influence?

It's kind of ironic that Trump and Cruz are "outsiders" but, should they ever be elected, insiders would finish up with most of the power!
Logged
The Mikado
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 21,677


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2016, 08:12:37 PM »

It is seriously unnerving reading posts that use that many exclamation marks! Exclamation marks should be used sparingly, to preserve their power to deliver impact! Someone who uses exclams for every sentence comes off as either loud, vapid, or just super-caffeinated! In fact, a good rule of thumb I've heard is that one out of every one hundred sentences deserves an exclam!
Logged
TJ in Oregon
TJ in Cleve
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,952
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: 6.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2016, 11:16:24 PM »

I'm now dreaming of Kasich calling in the Ohio National Guard to storm the Republican Convention in Cleveland and declare himself the nominee by force. It would be a fitting ending to how this cycle has gone so far. One can dream.
Logged
Lincoln Republican
Winfield
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,348


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2016, 11:28:52 PM »

If Trump fails to win 1237 delegates before the convention, a deal should be struck that would make Cruz the Presidential nominee and Kasich the Vice Presidential nominee, think Roosevelt and Garner 1932.
Logged
PeteB
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,874
Canada


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #43 on: March 18, 2016, 01:24:30 AM »

If Trump fails to win 1237 delegates before the convention, a deal should be struck that would make Cruz the Presidential nominee and Kasich the Vice Presidential nominee, think Roosevelt and Garner 1932.

I could see a deal being struck, but the other way round - Kasich at the top and someone from Cruz's camp (or even Cruz himself) as VP. If Cruz is the candidate it will be a bloodbath for the GOP in the GE!
Logged
Meclazine for Israel
Meclazine
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,659
Australia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #44 on: March 18, 2016, 03:31:12 AM »

Pete,

Your prediction is not too far fetched. I will leave my opinion open as there is a possibility the delegates could vanish on Trump if Kasich gets some momentum and looks solid enough to beat Clinton in June.
Logged
SillyAmerican
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,052
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #45 on: March 18, 2016, 10:58:12 AM »

Your prediction is not too far fetched. I will leave my opinion open as there is a possibility the delegates could vanish on Trump if Kasich gets some momentum and looks solid enough to beat Clinton in June.

From your lips (keyboard) to God's ears...
Logged
PeteB
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,874
Canada


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #46 on: March 18, 2016, 10:59:39 AM »

Pete,

Your prediction is not too far fetched. I will leave my opinion open as there is a possibility the delegates could vanish on Trump if Kasich gets some momentum and looks solid enough to beat Clinton in June.

We'll see. This national Rasmussen poll just came out, and I think it reinforces some of my points:

Trump 43
Cruz 28
Kasich 21

Just a couple of thoughts on the poll, in the context of this discussion:

1. While Trump's 43% looks impressive, that comes with 100% national name recognition, where both Cruz and especially Kasich lag far behind. In addition, many casual GOP voters are probably giving a vote for Trump assuming he is the de-facto nominee.

2. Kasich and Cruz are pretty close and, if you take into account that most of Cruz's strong states have already voted, Kasich is probably far ahead of Cruz in the states that have still to vote. Why any "pundits" would think that Kasich should drop out now, or that Cruz would do better against Trump than Kasich in places like CT, MD or RI continues to amaze me.
Logged
PeteB
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,874
Canada


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #47 on: March 18, 2016, 11:35:50 AM »

An interesting "informal" poll of GOP Politico Insiders about who would win a contested Convention:

Kasich:45%
Cruz: 33%
Trump: 22%

It's funny that this is the exact reverse of the Rasmussen poll. But at least it's obvious why Trump and Cruz would like Kasich out now!

You can read the whole article (Insiders: Kasich could win a contested convention) here:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/john-kasich-contested-convention-insiders-220946
Logged
World politics is up Schmitt creek
Nathan
Moderators
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 34,248


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #48 on: March 18, 2016, 11:47:05 AM »

It is seriously unnerving reading posts that use that many exclamation marks! Exclamation marks should be used sparingly, to preserve their power to deliver impact! Someone who uses exclams for every sentence comes off as either loud, vapid, or just super-caffeinated! In fact, a good rule of thumb I've heard is that one out of every one hundred sentences deserves an exclam!

In Japanese writing and I think older styles of English writing as well ('older' as in Victorian/Edwardian, not as in Elizabethan/Jacobean/Caroline/Restoration/Georgian) overuse of exclamation marks is considered characteristic of an ultrafeminine style, and for that reason I'm skeptical of using the word 'vapid' to describe it, but other than that I had the same reaction to that post.
Logged
Dr. Arch
Arch
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,452
Puerto Rico


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #49 on: March 18, 2016, 11:52:59 AM »

Even though I "like" Kasich relative to the rest of the GOP field, I will stand by the fact I will not vote for a candidate who the voters of the party overwhelmingly rejected. It's anti-democratic.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.057 seconds with 13 queries.