Reaction to Trump nomination from US’s Western allies UPDATE:Renzi weighs in too

[ProudModerate2]

Cameron's office says that there has been no invitation sent to Trump ....

I knew from the start that this story was false.
Why would someone like Cameron, want to meet with a scum-bag like trump ?
Made no sense from the start.

[Sbane]

The only people who will comment from overseas are people who don't like him.

People who agree that you can secure your borders and control foreign trade wont say a word.

So it will be very biased.



Australia closed its borders to illegal boat arrivals, and not one illegal has arrived by boat since 2013/14.

Yet no one bats an eyelid anymore, left wing or right wing. Its a nil political debate when your borders are secure.

Mexicans are getting ticked off because Donald Trump wants to control our southern border?

No, because we all are rapists and robbers.

And that is something Mr. Trump and his followers will never live down. Next time, when you talk about how much you like Mr. Trump in the presence of a Latino gardener or hotel maid, or, for that matter, a Latino Ivy League Prof., keep in mind what he thinks about you. Hint: S/he thinks you are a rapist and a bandit.

You're absolutely right. What Trump should say: "I'd like to clarify something I said earlier. All of those illegal immigrants that dislike me so much? Well, I can tell you with 100% certainty that 100% of them have broken the law."

You see, despite the objections of the PC police, there's a reason for someone being called an illegal immigrant...

So you think all Mexicans are rapists? Because that is what they are pissed about.....

Of course we can do our own generalization. All Trump supporters are human trash! Racist pieces of sh**t.

And, in fact, they are. Every day one of them goes through without being publically called a worthless piece of sh**t at least four or five times is a day that God chose to look the other way.

How the heck are you a moderator? You're like drunk George Ramos.

Did he say something that was not factually correct? Sometimes truth hurts.

[ag]

The only people who will comment from overseas are people who don't like him.

People who agree that you can secure your borders and control foreign trade wont say a word.

So it will be very biased.



Australia closed its borders to illegal boat arrivals, and not one illegal has arrived by boat since 2013/14.

Yet no one bats an eyelid anymore, left wing or right wing. Its a nil political debate when your borders are secure.

Mexicans are getting ticked off because Donald Trump wants to control our southern border?

No, because we all are rapists and robbers.

And that is something Mr. Trump and his followers will never live down. Next time, when you talk about how much you like Mr. Trump in the presence of a Latino gardener or hotel maid, or, for that matter, a Latino Ivy League Prof., keep in mind what he thinks about you. Hint: S/he thinks you are a rapist and a bandit.

You're absolutely right. What Trump should say: "I'd like to clarify something I said earlier. All of those illegal immigrants that dislike me so much? Well, I can tell you with 100% certainty that 100% of them have broken the law."

You see, despite the objections of the PC police, there's a reason for someone being called an illegal immigrant...

So you think all Mexicans are rapists? Because that is what they are pissed about.....

Of course we can do our own generalization. All Trump supporters are human trash! Racist pieces of sh**t.

And, in fact, they are. Every day one of them goes through without being publically called a worthless piece of sh**t at least four or five times is a day that God chose to look the other way.

How the heck are you a moderator? You're like drunk George Ramos.

Which of my moderatorial decisions are you objecting to?

In any case, it is an honour to be compared to Sr. Jorge Ramos: one of the best journalists in the hemisphere. And, of course, I would have been a lot more complacent if I were drunk: perhaps, I could even consider the possibility of Trump presidency without horror. Alas, I have stopped drinking when I moved from the US to Mexico many years ago.

[MK]

It amazes me how many Americans want to cut the their own legs off in order to spite the rest of the world. Nationalism is a poison.

We reject globlist agendas that aim to keep the ultra rich world bank types in power.

[dax00]

It amazes me how many Americans want to cut the their own legs off in order to spite the rest of the world. Nationalism is a poison.

We hopefully reject globalist agendas that aim to keep the ultra rich and underground types in power.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

It amazes me how many Americans want to cut the their own legs off in order to spite the rest of the world. Nationalism is a poison.

We reject globlist agendas that aim to keep the ultra rich world bank types in power.

Sounds like anti semitic tripe to me.

[DavidB.]

It amazes me how many Americans want to cut the their own legs off in order to spite the rest of the world. Nationalism is a poison.

We reject globlist agendas that aim to keep the ultra rich world bank types in power.

Sounds like anti semitic tripe to me.

That's because it is.

[Mr. Morden]

Sorry folks.  Looks like a Trump overseas trip this summer is unlikely:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/trump-overseas-trips-223464

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[Zeke921]

The only people who will comment from overseas are people who don't like him.

People who agree that you can secure your borders and control foreign trade wont say a word.

So it will be very biased.

Australia closed its borders to illegal boat arrivals, and not one illegal has arrived by boat since 2013/14.

Yet no one bats an eyelid anymore, left wing or right wing. Its a nil political debate when your borders are secure.

Mexicans are getting ticked off because Donald Trump wants to control our southern border?

No, because we all are rapists and robbers.

And that is something Mr. Trump and his followers will never live down. Next time, when you talk about how much you like Mr. Trump in the presence of a Latino gardener or hotel maid, or, for that matter, a Latino Ivy League Prof., keep in mind what he thinks about you. Hint: S/he thinks you are a rapist and a bandit.

What he actually said was that they're not sending their best people over. The obvious implication is that those who don't come here illegaly are not rapists, etc..

[angus]

Normally, they try to remain “officially” neutral, but this time it might be different.  

 

No one is neutral about anything, nor should heads of state be expected to feign neutrality since their job is to pursue legislative agendas that benefit their respective nations.  Companies engage in too much global business nowadays to pretend that none of it matters.

I assume that many folks find him as unsuitable as I find him, and some will say so publicly once he is nominated.  Some will even try to influence our election, though maybe not with such effrontery and arrogance as Obama showed recently in the UK, mucking about and encouraging them to vote against a referendum to leave the european union.  I doubt any foreign politicians will have any influence on the US election, unless they're willing to put their monies where their mouths are.  Endorsements and anti-endorsements are over-rated.  Money wins elections, not comments.  The only people who really have to make pretenses for a Republican nominee are Republicans like John McCain and Lindsey Graham.  There's no reason for foreign leaders to make pretenses unless Trump actually gets elected.  

Should he become president, of course they'll all learn to make nice.  Some individual actors will make sanctimonious statements, but governments will maintain long-term policies.  It's like having Putin over for dinner.  You might think he's a creep, but he has all that delicious hydrocarbon in his backyard so you put up with him at state visits.  

I'm more interested in how non-Democratically selected politicians will act.  The politicians who have to answer to voters will make the sorts of noises that voters like to listen to, and those are predictable.  There are about 50 dictators in the world, many of whom command vast natural resources.  Those represent governments more likely to cause President Trump to do something really stupid.  So far all I've seen is fairly innocuous statements.  For example, China's state-controlled newspaper announced that Trump acted like a "clown to attract more GOP voters."  China has also reminded us that democracy is over-rated, pointing out that Mussolini came to power democratically.  Russia, on the other hand, has offered praise for many of Trump's positions.  Trump and Putin seem to have some mutual admiration.  Iran views trump's candidacy with great amusement, at least publicly, but it has been reported that privately many think that Trump will be easier to work with than Clinton.  The Arabian ruling class may have reason to be nervous.  Already, Trump has been in a Twitter fight with the Royal house of Saud.  So far, it's all talk.  Things get interesting only if Trump actually becomes president.  

[Mr. Morden]

I assume that many folks find him as unsuitable as I find him, and some will say so publicly once he is nominated.  Some will even try to influence our election, though maybe not with such effrontery and arrogance as Obama showed recently in the UK, mucking about and encouraging them to vote against a referendum to leave the european union.  I doubt any foreign politicians will have any influence on the US election, unless they're willing to put their monies where their mouths are.  Endorsements and anti-endorsements are over-rated.

To be clear, when I started this thread, the intent wasn't to examine how foreign leaders might influence the American election.  It was more a question of whether these leaders might have to dispense with even the pretense of neutrality in order to appease their own domestic electorates.

E.g., four years ago, Romney visited the UK during the election year, and met with both Cameron and Miliband.  I'm assuming that even though, presumably, the majority of British voters would prefer Obama be reelected rather than Romney be elected, these meetings were pretty uncontroversial because people generally understand "OK, this guy might be the next US president, and this is what you do, no big deal".  The question though is, is Trump just so toxic in Europe now that Cameron (and other European leaders) would have a harder time explaining such a meeting with Trump?

Let's say Trump announces tomorrow that he's going to be visiting a few European countries next month, in the same spirit that Romney did four years ago and Obama did eight years ago.  Do any of the heads of government on the continent decide that it would be politically damaging to be seen with Trump?  How would they react to Trump visiting their country?  Conversely, if any of them are planning to visit the US this year, would they decline to meet with Trump (whereas they would have met with, say, Kasich or Rubio or Bush if any of them had been the nominee)?  Do some of them decide that shunning Trump is an electoral winner for them, despite the fact that doing so is risky because he might actually be elected president, and they'll have to work with him?

[ProudModerate2]

..... China's state-controlled newspaper announced that Trump acted like a "clown to attract more GOP voters."

Well, it seems the Chinese got that right.

[angus]

It was more a question of whether these leaders might have to dispense with even the pretense of neutrality in order to appease their own domestic electorates.

yes, of course.  I think it's fairly predictable.  If your job depends upon getting millions of people to renew your contract every few years, then your job description quickly becomes word-merchant. 

Trump just so toxic

toxicity is such a fleeting thing in politics.  In December, Lindsey Graham called Trump a "race-baiting, xenophobic bigot... who doesn't represent my party and doesn't represent the values that our men and women who wear the uniform are fighting for."  Yesterday he urged Republicans to support Trump.  Go figure. 

I don't know much about David Cameron and I haven't visited the UK, but I've worked in Amsterdam and in Germany and had many discussions with people about US politics.  Bush was never popular there, and neither was Reagan.  Gerhard Schröder was an outspoken critic of Bush both during and after the 2000 election.  I think Schröder thought Bush was nuts--really nuts--even to the point of not being able to think of anything else to say except impugn Bush, at length, once it was clear that his red-green coalition lost to Merckel's in 2005.   

Let's say Trump announces tomorrow that he's going to be visiting a few European countries next month, in the same spirit that Romney did four years ago and Obama did eight years ago. 

I never figured out why anyone would go on world tour while applying for a job.  Seems anachronistic.  Seeking a job is a full-time job, especially if you're trying to get elected president.  You visit foreign leaders after you become president.  Or, more likely, you summon them to your office.  If Trump wanted to visit somebody like Pope Francis this summer, probably he'd get an audience, because the pope is a very nice guy, and because he got elected to his seat for life.  If Trump wanted to visit someone like Mark Rutte, I imagine that Rutte will be nice to Trump while Trump is there.  Trump would probably say all sorts of nice things about Rutte as well.  In fact, if Trump had any policy knowledge, he'd probably praise the VVD generally.  I'm not sure about Cameron.  Not only because I know less of British politics generally, but because of what I do know about them, which is that Cameron is in a very tenuous position.  Cameron has favorability ratings on par with people like Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump and Robert Mugabe.  Also, they have the referendum coming up.  Trump is a headache that might not appeal to David Cameron at the moment.   I don't think it's a snub.  It's just, "hey, man, really?  I don't need this shit right now.  Tell him we're busy that week.  Tell him I'm playing golf with Jean-Claude Juncker and the King of Spain."  The Donald has pretty thick skin, and so does his supporters, so it really doesn't matter.  It also doesn't matter if Trump is not elected president, but they'll come around as soon as President Trump is inaugurated if he wins.  In fact, probably before.  They'll be on the phone with congratulatory messages, trying not to choke on it, the morning after election day.  But privately all the heads of state except for Ahmadinejad, the Saudis, and Putin will worry and wonder what Americans were smoking on election day. 

[Mr. Morden]

I found this story from February, in which Matteo Renzi said that he’s rooting for Clinton:

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-italy-pm-says-as-citizen-he-hopes-clinton-wins-us-election-2016-2?IR=T

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Renzi was also overheard talking to Obama about Trump at the G7 summit:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/obama-trump-has-world-leaders-rattled-by-ignorance-cavalier-attitude-223595

There’s also this story from back in January, about Malcolm Turnbull having called Marco Rubio during his last trip to the US, as he didn’t want to talk to either Cruz or Trump who were ahead of Rubio in the polls:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/laurie-oakes/malcolm-turnbull-faces-nervous-wait-for-us-presidential-vote/news-story/221fbc1351d6174e611e1dfa67336bbf

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[Mr. Morden]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-27/cameron-happy-to-meet-trump-sees-u-s-relationship-continuing

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[Gustaf]

It was more a question of whether these leaders might have to dispense with even the pretense of neutrality in order to appease their own domestic electorates.

yes, of course.  I think it's fairly predictable.  If your job depends upon getting millions of people to renew your contract every few years, then your job description quickly becomes word-merchant. 

Trump just so toxic

toxicity is such a fleeting thing in politics.  In December, Lindsey Graham called Trump a "race-baiting, xenophobic bigot... who doesn't represent my party and doesn't represent the values that our men and women who wear the uniform are fighting for."  Yesterday he urged Republicans to support Trump.  Go figure. 

I don't know much about David Cameron and I haven't visited the UK, but I've worked in Amsterdam and in Germany and had many discussions with people about US politics.  Bush was never popular there, and neither was Reagan.  Gerhard Schröder was an outspoken critic of Bush both during and after the 2000 election.  I think Schröder thought Bush was nuts--really nuts--even to the point of not being able to think of anything else to say except impugn Bush, at length, once it was clear that his red-green coalition lost to Merckel's in 2005.   

Let's say Trump announces tomorrow that he's going to be visiting a few European countries next month, in the same spirit that Romney did four years ago and Obama did eight years ago. 

I never figured out why anyone would go on world tour while applying for a job.  Seems anachronistic.  Seeking a job is a full-time job, especially if you're trying to get elected president.  You visit foreign leaders after you become president.  Or, more likely, you summon them to your office.  If Trump wanted to visit somebody like Pope Francis this summer, probably he'd get an audience, because the pope is a very nice guy, and because he got elected to his seat for life.  If Trump wanted to visit someone like Mark Rutte, I imagine that Rutte will be nice to Trump while Trump is there.  Trump would probably say all sorts of nice things about Rutte as well.  In fact, if Trump had any policy knowledge, he'd probably praise the VVD generally.  I'm not sure about Cameron.  Not only because I know less of British politics generally, but because of what I do know about them, which is that Cameron is in a very tenuous position.  Cameron has favorability ratings on par with people like Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump and Robert Mugabe.  Also, they have the referendum coming up.  Trump is a headache that might not appeal to David Cameron at the moment.   I don't think it's a snub.  It's just, "hey, man, really?  I don't need this shit right now.  Tell him we're busy that week.  Tell him I'm playing golf with Jean-Claude Juncker and the King of Spain."  The Donald has pretty thick skin, and so does his supporters, so it really doesn't matter.  It also doesn't matter if Trump is not elected president, but they'll come around as soon as President Trump is inaugurated if he wins.  In fact, probably before.  They'll be on the phone with congratulatory messages, trying not to choke on it, the morning after election day.  But privately all the heads of state except for Ahmadinejad, the Saudis, and Putin will worry and wonder what Americans were smoking on election day. 

The bolded part seems very, very untrue. The man loses his cool at the slightest hint of criticism.

[Mr. Morden]

Trump to visit Britain one day after EU referendum:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-britain-trump-idUSKCN0YN4J5

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[Illiniwek]

Trump to visit Britain one day after EU referendum:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-britain-trump-idUSKCN0YN4J5

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God how does anyone seriously believe in this clown?

[Mr. Morden]

George Galloway says Trump is better than Clinton:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/george-galloway-trump-clinton-224001

[Senator-elect Spark]

Can't wait to see Trump having tea with David Cameron.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Can't wait to see Trump having tea with David Cameron.

p

Hopefully he'll meet Corbyn as well.

[Mr. Morden]

So, Trump is arriving in the UK later today, but he won’t be meeting with Cameron, or any other political leaders:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/23/donald-trump-arrives-in-the-uk-saying-he-would-be-inclined-to-le/

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In related news, a Mexican flag has been raised on the land adjacent to Trump’s Scottish golf course, to welcome him:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/21/mexican-flag-raised-at-donald-trumps-golf-course/

[Mr. Morden]

With Trump visiting Scotland, I’ll also mention this classic Trump quote from 2014 about how wind farms are a disaster “like Pan Am 103”:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/trump-called-wind-turbines-a-disaster-for-scotland-like-the?utm_term=.aeZ5Gezy9#.bpp47r1bq

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[Mr. Morden]

Condemnation from the NSW Parliament:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-13/nsw-parliament-denounces-donald-trump/7929456

[angus]

The bolded part seems very, very untrue.

Haha.  Yes, in retrospect I can see that it was silly to say that to support my point.  However, I stand by the point I was trying to make.

Nice bump, Mr. Morden.

Of course foreign leaders have a vested interesting in attempting to influence US elections, just as we have an interest in influencing foreign elections.  The trick is not to let it appear that you are doing so, lest the one you don't support ends up being elected.  Chris Pyne won't have much to worry about though, since I think he and Trump will see eye-to-eye on a majority of policy proposals.