Does hard work pay off?

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Super simple question, but I think it has a lot of political undertones and ramifications. With the current economy and the engrained privileges people at the top enjoy, do you believe that working hard really pays off or is actually worthwhile?

Lately, I'm really starting to believe that the correlation between "success" and "merit" is pretty limited. Maybe it's because I was duped into following my heart and studying what I was interested in rather than going for the sure bet. It never really sunk in that reality would smack me in the face at the end of university.

[Wake Me Up When The Hard Border Ends]

Speaking from personal experience, it certainly does (R).

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

it can, but that is increasingly unlikely (normal)

[Mr. Smith]

Only insofar that it creates more chances for good luck.

Being in the right place, at the right time matters a lot more than pure merit.


That said, success or no, it is worthwhile because of the sense of accomplishment and use it gives the mind. Use or lose with anything is the name of the game.

[Antonio the Sixth]

it can, but that is increasingly unlikely (normal)

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

on occasion.

[TJ in Oregon]

Usually, but the payout isn't as big, fast, or flashy as typically envisioned. We tend to overrate our own contribution to things.

[Potus]

Yes.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Am I seriously the first No (R) vote? I guess I'm not surprised seeing as my economic views are not my reason for being there or remotely aligned, but this is a very, very obvious answer to me. We have extremely limited control over our fate and as talented as you are, it's entirely in the hands of others. Sure, you can set yourself up on occasion, but the correlation you mention Hagrid, is definitely not there. Anyone can set themselves up regardless of merit, and I wouldn't necessarily consider that hard work.

Note, this is a different answer than I gave to a similar question from DC Al if the "system" is working for those allowed into it (I believe it mostly is). Most will see at least modest success and comfort, but I'd imagine once you segment it into things like education, the intragroup correlation is even less.

[Higgs]

Not always, but overall yes.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Not always, but overall yes.

[dead0man]

Yes.  There are few people that are not assholes that worked hard and didn't find success.  You really can't answer this question unless you've lived a little.  If you're 18 and think you know the answer to this, you are very very wrong.


I guess it could depend on what you mean by "pay off".  If it means "rich" then the answer would be "sometimes", but if it just means "by middle age you've got a bunch of ways to entertain yourself and those you support" then the answer is "yes".


It also might not be "yes" in some western countries that have stupid unemployment numbers.

[Torie]

If by "pay off," one means financially, it usually is a necessary, but also typically by no means sufficient condition to get there. Smarts, having a skill set that is remunerative in the market place, ability to play well with others, and some luck as in being in the right place, at the right time, also often play a key role.

[dead0man]

Very true.  Especially the play well with others bit.  It doesn't matter how hard you work, if everybody hates working with you, you're going to have a harder time finding success.  I think "luck" is a little overrated....but I would think that as I totally lucked into my current cushy gig


(but I created my own luck by being easy to work with, working hard (enough, I'm by no means a "hard worker"), showing up on time and generally not being an asshole....that got me the good references needed to luck into the cushy job)

[Boston Bread]

For the most part it can get you from being poor into the middle class assuming you were born into or immigrated into a developed country. I'm speaking on behalf of my own family's experience. Unfortunately, many poor or working class folks have other problems that prevent them from working hard in a way that advances their socioeconomic class, or were born in the wrong place.

Hard work isn't generally what gets you wealthy though, that depends more on luck.

[RINO Tom]

Not always, but overall yes.

[dead0man]

Hard work isn't generally what gets you wealthy though, that depends more on luck.

I suppose if you're counting the people born into, then yeah, but for the people that actually made the wealth....well very few of them didn't involve a lot of hard work.  A few young artists, maybe, but if they were unable to work hard they probably didn't keep that wealth.

Unless I'm forgetting some segment of wealth creation....the lottery winners?, I'm guessing they are a tiny fraction of the total (and don't we often read how many of them are bankrupt 4 years later?).  Or are you saying it's not the hard work that got them the wealth, it was the luck?  In that case, yes, sorta, but if the vast majority of ways wealth is created involves hard work, we can assume that hard work is an important contributing factor in it.  Nobody is saying it's the only thing or that if you do it, wealth will 100% come to you.  We're saying without it, it's pretty much guaranteed you WON'T be successful.

Saying to yourself "I'm not going to work hard because it's not a guarantee that I will become wealthy" is not a good idea.  On the other hand, it makes life a little bit easier for those that do work hard.  Less competition you see.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Statistically speaking, it hasn't really been the case for most Americans in recent decades:

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Full article: http://www.epi.org/publication/stagnant-wages-in-2014/

[Boston Bread]

I suppose if you're counting the people born into, then yeah, but for the people that actually made the wealth....well very few of them didn't involve a lot of hard work.  A few young artists, maybe, but if they were unable to work hard they probably didn't keep that wealth.

What I meant is along the lines of: there is no situation where hard work can't help - but just through hard work alone the chance of becoming wealthy is small. So my opinion is that luck played a bigger role than hard work for most of the rich.

Plus there are plenty of types of hard work that don't lead to wealth, like caring for children, but are still necessary.

[SATW]

It's not about working harder, it's about playing smarter. This is easier said then done, of course, but hard work alone doesn't always make one successful. You need to be sharp professionally and socially, and then mix it in with a lot of hard work.

This isn't some gold standard, though. Just some observations I've made from shadowing older friends of mine who are entering their 30's now.

[Enduro]

Always, even if it's not paying off in money.

[dead0man]

I suppose if you're counting the people born into, then yeah, but for the people that actually made the wealth....well very few of them didn't involve a lot of hard work.  A few young artists, maybe, but if they were unable to work hard they probably didn't keep that wealth.

What I meant is along the lines of: there is no situation where hard work can't help - but just through hard work alone the chance of becoming wealthy is small. So my opinion is that luck played a bigger role than hard work for most of the rich.

Plus there are plenty of types of hard work that don't lead to wealth, like caring for children, but are still necessary.

Ahh, yeah, I agree with all that.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Yes, on average. But the fact that it doesn't often enough that people find it hardly worthwhile to try, or try and try and barely get by, is a major problem.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Not always, but most of the time.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Partisan breakdown is pretty funny.