Christians... why do you identify as Christian?
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Blue3
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« on: March 26, 2016, 02:05:26 PM »

Christians... why do you identify as Christian?




For me, it's because Christianity (when it's at its best) revolves around Love, and is Life-affirming and Joyful.

Not the "Christianity" that's corrupted by "fear of hell" or "greed for heaven", instead of love for the sake of love.

Christianity at its core essence, to me, is about the ultimate triumph of Love, and therefore of Life and of Joy. Best represented by the events of Good Friday and Easter Sunday, and the teachings/example of Jesus.

Beyond any other religion (which all have a very similar message), Christianity is founded on the idea that God is Love, that Love is God, that we should not judge or condemn anyone, that we should forgive everyone, that we should even love our "enemies". That our love saves us, that life is good, that Eternal Life will conquer death, and that we will be blessed with true Joy.

It's such a powerful, positive message that's then embodied by the events of Jesus suffering and dying for all others, even though he didn't have to, and being raised from the dead.

I've also had personal experiences (insights from my own reflection/thinking, dreams, physical signs, intuition, and more, which I've talked about it detail in threads here over the years) that have since I was 15 not only convinced me of the power and positive-ness of this message, but also of its Truth.

That's why I identify as a Christian.
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TJ in Oregon
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« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2016, 03:50:10 PM »

I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the second person of the Holy Trinity, who was incarnate as a man, was crucified and died for our sake, and rose again from the dead. I believe that man was created good in the image and likeness of God, but God in his love gave us the free will to reject him, and that mankind, through our free will, is in a fallen state. I believe that God instituted a plan for our salvation, beginning with the revelation to Israel and culminating with Christ's sacrifice.

In a logistical sense, these are many of the core beliefs of Christianity. They are not necessarily at odds with more abstract conceptions, but are in my view the most straightforward answer to this question.
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Blue3
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« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2016, 07:15:21 PM »

I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the second person of the Holy Trinity, who was incarnate as a man, was crucified and died for our sake, and rose again from the dead. I believe that man was created good in the image and likeness of God, but God in his love gave us the free will to reject him, and that mankind, through our free will, is in a fallen state. I believe that God instituted a plan for our salvation, beginning with the revelation to Israel and culminating with Christ's sacrifice.

In a logistical sense, these are many of the core beliefs of Christianity. They are not necessarily at odds with more abstract conceptions, but are in my view the most straightforward answer to this question.
I'm not asking what you believe, I'm asking WHY do you believe, WHY do you call yourself Christian. Why do you feel attracted to Christianity, above all other religions and philosophies and paths?
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2016, 10:09:24 PM »

It gives more purpose and direction than just coming into existence and randomly dying "just 'cuz". I would rather my actions and intentions mean something from the outset than have to decipher all the meaning of it externally.


That and what the OP said.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2016, 10:13:55 PM »

I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the second person of the Holy Trinity, who was incarnate as a man, was crucified and died for our sake, and rose again from the dead. I believe that man was created good in the image and likeness of God, but God in his love gave us the free will to reject him, and that mankind, through our free will, is in a fallen state. I believe that God instituted a plan for our salvation, beginning with the revelation to Israel and culminating with Christ's sacrifice.

In a logistical sense, these are many of the core beliefs of Christianity. They are not necessarily at odds with more abstract conceptions, but are in my view the most straightforward answer to this question.
I'm not asking what you believe, I'm asking WHY do you believe, WHY do you call yourself Christian. Why do you feel attracted to Christianity, above all other religions and philosophies and paths?
TJ's reply seems very logical to me. He identifies as a Christian because he believes that. That's why he feels attracted to Christianity.
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NeverAgain
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« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2016, 11:11:17 PM »

It gives more purpose and direction than just coming into existence and randomly dying "just 'cuz". I would rather my actions and intentions mean something from the outset than have to decipher all the meaning of it externally.


That and what the OP said.

Would you say that you have to be theistic to have a purpose in life? Like I'm not trying to offend, I just want to know why religion gives you a sense of purpose.
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Blue3
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« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2016, 12:28:27 AM »

I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the second person of the Holy Trinity, who was incarnate as a man, was crucified and died for our sake, and rose again from the dead. I believe that man was created good in the image and likeness of God, but God in his love gave us the free will to reject him, and that mankind, through our free will, is in a fallen state. I believe that God instituted a plan for our salvation, beginning with the revelation to Israel and culminating with Christ's sacrifice.

In a logistical sense, these are many of the core beliefs of Christianity. They are not necessarily at odds with more abstract conceptions, but are in my view the most straightforward answer to this question.
I'm not asking what you believe, I'm asking WHY do you believe, WHY do you call yourself Christian. Why do you feel attracted to Christianity, above all other religions and philosophies and paths?
TJ's reply seems very logical to me. He identifies as a Christian because he believes that. That's why he feels attracted to Christianity.
Then how did he come to believe that? What solidified his faith?
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2016, 07:33:56 AM »

Not everyone goes thru a soul searching introspection of why they believe, Blue. Unless someone feels the need for that, they won't gain any benefit from doing that.
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afleitch
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« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2016, 07:46:44 AM »

When I was a Christian even then, the honest answer was I was raised Christian in a Christian household in a nominally Christian country. Of course I was going to have a Christian ontological outlook. The odds of me therefore being Christian and understanding Christian concepts that in turn influenced a sort of conformation bias were therefore high. I was a Christian for the same reason my Muslim friends were Muslim.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2016, 08:47:25 AM »

I have come to the conclusion that the most likely explanation for the Universe as we know it is that it was created/designed by a higher entity/consciousness of some kind that exists beyond the four dimensions we can perceive, and Christianity offers the most believable and unique description of such a being, IMO.  I also give the Bible the benefit of the doubt as a somewhat accurate historical text just like any other (certainly not all of it, especially many Old Testament stories), and I have a hard time believing that the disciples would have behaved in the way they did under persecution if they hadn't truly witnessed something miraculous (the Resurrection).  Beyond that, the obvious answers of it was what I grew up with, it makes me feel fulfilled inside and I just have an odd gut feeling/spiritual attraction that I don't expect or necessarily want anyone else to understand.

Happy Easter!
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afleitch
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« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2016, 11:05:25 AM »

I have come to the conclusion that the most likely explanation for the Universe as we know it is that it was created/designed by a higher entity/consciousness of some kind that exists beyond the four dimensions we can perceive, and Christianity offers the most believable and unique description of such a being, IMO.  I also give the Bible the benefit of the doubt as a somewhat accurate historical text just like any other (certainly not all of it, especially many Old Testament stories), and I have a hard time believing that the disciples would have behaved in the way they did under persecution if they hadn't truly witnessed something miraculous (the Resurrection).  Beyond that, the obvious answers of it was what I grew up with, it makes me feel fulfilled inside and I just have an odd gut feeling/spiritual attraction that I don't expect or necessarily want anyone else to understand.

Happy Easter!

So you consider that the most believable and unique description of the creator of the entire universe and everything in it, is that which was forwarded by a small part of a tribe in the middle east of the planet Earth some 2000 year ago? That if there is any any sentient life in this vast universe it's not worth them looking for evidence or inspiration from their own world and their own experiences because you're pretty sure that Roman Judea nailed it?

In terms of the disciples, do people only suffer and die for beliefs that are true? Why should strong belief correlate in any way to truth? People 'martyred' themselves for Jim Jones. People blow themselves up for 70 virgins. People do all sorts of extraordinary things for what they believe to be truth. But it doesn't by extension make that true.

Christianity's own 'creation myth' is not an adequate representation of what actually happened.

Christianity spread (and this is meant to be a very quick rundown) through the Roman Empire through missionaries at first with strong evidence it was adopted by soldiers (for the same reasons that Mithraism was popular amongst soldiers) when it was an interesting new cult which helped ‘prime’ some areas of the Empire before missionaries actually got there.

Incidentally it also went east by virtue of the silk road and survived in fluctuating pockets (before 500 ad, 1/3rd of the world’s Christians were in what we would now consider Asia).

Then of course it became mandated by the Empire itself to the point at which laws forbade the practice of all other faiths for the first time in the entire history of the Roman Republic/Empire until such a point that it became integrated within the imperial government, leading to a form of 'caesaropapism' that ended up surviving the collapse of the Empire itself. At the time of Constantine’s conversion it was estimated that a small minority of the population of the Roman Empire were Christian and we can say than in the loosest sense of the word because there were numerous competing Christian sects. Not only did Constantine prompt the beginning of the Empire’s general edict against paganism, he was also the first Roman Emperor to specifically target unwanted Christian sects. That in turn affected early Christian thinkers like Augustine of Hippo to find ‘merit’ in using violence against heretics which they had previously argued against.

Then followed periods of forced conversion and by the early 400’s the first instances of genuine political/state action taken against ‘heretics’ (literally eradicating them) Christianity then had to fight its way into Europe which wasn’t necessarily ‘completely’ Christianised until the 1000’s-1100’s. While Europe was busy bludgeoning itself over whether Jesus liked ruffs or puritan buckles, Europe managed to export Christianity to the New World in ways and means that are genuinely barbarous. Same in Africa too.
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Blue3
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« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2016, 02:54:31 PM »

Not everyone goes thru a soul searching introspection of why they believe, Blue. Unless someone feels the need for that, they won't gain any benefit from doing that.
That's what I intended this thread to be about... some time to reflect on, or make, that introspection, and to put it into words. It seems like a happy, healthy, renewing spiritual exercise. Especially for this time of year.
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TJ in Oregon
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« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2016, 10:48:38 PM »

I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the second person of the Holy Trinity, who was incarnate as a man, was crucified and died for our sake, and rose again from the dead. I believe that man was created good in the image and likeness of God, but God in his love gave us the free will to reject him, and that mankind, through our free will, is in a fallen state. I believe that God instituted a plan for our salvation, beginning with the revelation to Israel and culminating with Christ's sacrifice.

In a logistical sense, these are many of the core beliefs of Christianity. They are not necessarily at odds with more abstract conceptions, but are in my view the most straightforward answer to this question.
I'm not asking what you believe, I'm asking WHY do you believe, WHY do you call yourself Christian. Why do you feel attracted to Christianity, above all other religions and philosophies and paths?
TJ's reply seems very logical to me. He identifies as a Christian because he believes that. That's why he feels attracted to Christianity.
Then how did he come to believe that? What solidified his faith?

I didn't mean to be a smart alec, but the original question asked me why I identify as Christian not why I believe Christianity is true. It seemed to be based on identity rather than a statement about truth. I was planning to try and write up a new effortpost about this, but since I already wrote one last year about practically the same question, I'll just quote it:

First, no one can ever be 100% sure anything is right. To give a rather silly example, it is entirely possible that no one else exists besides me. I can neither prove nor disprove that idea beyond a shadow of a doubt, nor can I prove or disprove any other metaphysical belief or lack thereof.

Beyond that, there are things that I still think are almost certainly true, the most obvious of which are those that are experimentally verifiable. This statement allows me to generally accept science: that there is a method by which we can make hypotheses that could conceivably be proven false, test them, and from the results decide whether the hypotheses should be accept (thus becoming theories) or rejected. While none of this can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, I still suspect almost everyone will be fine with accepting these ideas.

The most logical question to ask next is whether or not all possible true statements can be found by such methods. Here is where many people begin to diverge quite rapidly in our thoughts. If indeed all possible true statements can be found through the scientific method, then in order for something to be true it must be capable of being proven false by some possible experiment unless it is true. The most immediate problem with this statement, though perhaps trivial, is that it is a violation of itself: the statement "in order for something to be true it must be capable of being proven false" is itself incapable of being proven false. Regardless, and this is just my personal opinion, I don't think the statement is true and don't see any particular reason to believe it would be. I can't make a definitive decree that the statement isn't true; simply that I don't think it is. That leads me to the conclusion that there is something else to truth beyond what we can be told by science.

So why Christ and not Thor? Or why not any number of prophets who have started the main world religions?

This question becomes increasingly difficult to consider simply because there are a far greater number of options that I could ever seriously, painstakingly, individually consider. So here again, I must rely on my judgment in that I have seen some large part of Christianity and some slice of human nature and the world and come to the conclusion the latter is consistent with Christianity. The beautiful, yet astounding idea that we ought to hate the sin vehemently but love the sinner relentlessly, that there is an objective morality not subject to either popular vote or the whims of society, that there is a point to our existence, that there is something more important that our own immediate gratification, that happiness is generally found not be be given everything we want but by losing things we have and letting them go without, that few things are heavier to carry than a grudge, and that everything we do has consequences whether we see them or not. Yes, the other religions of the world contain many of these messages and many elements of truth but the particular combination is uniquely Christian. And as for uniqueness, even moreso is the manifestation of the message: in a person. A person, who, unlike practically every other religious prophet actually claimed to be God himself (or at least his followers say he did). C.S. Lewis claimed there were three possibilities for Jesus: mad, bad, or God. Certainly there is also a fourth, that his followers embellished his life story. But I think we must also take a look at the way in which early Christianity spread: not by a conquering nation but by a defeated nation, by martyrs who believed in it so strongly they were willing to die for it. That isn't to say that other world religions haven't also had martyrs willing to die for them. But what it does show is that the people who supposedly lied about its contents also personally believed in it so much they were willing to give up everything.

Now to address your particular points:
The exactness of the meaning of Biblical literalism is somewhat sticky. A ton of Christians will claim to believe it literally but have completely different understandings of what that means. I believe that the Bible is literally true in the moral and theological truths it reveals. That is not to say I believe every historical detail is exactly accurate (particularly in the Old Testament). It was written by humans who are capable of messing things up. It did not drop out of the sky one day (in the King James Version of course Tongue). I also find "self-evidence" to be a particularly unconvincing argument in practically every situation, the Bible included.

1. I don't necessarily see a reason why most of humanity necessarily needed to have access in order for the religion to be true. I am of the belief that a person will not be held liable by God for a wrong they had no knowledge or consent of. Thus, those who are truly invincibly ignorant will be judged accordingly.
2. God did not write in ancient scrolls, he appeared and/or communicated with people who then, often much later, decided they ought to record the interaction. The primary audience was the recipient of the revelation, so it is no surprise the worlds are mostly directed toward them.
3. The main distinction here is the general plan of salvation between the New and Old Testament is markedly different. The Old Testament idea was that God had chosen a nation, which he aided numerous times, to try and redeem the world through them. But this was incomplete and the law fulfilled by sending his son. Once the law was fulfilled and general revelation completed with him and his followers, no further general activity was needed for the preservation of the chosen people. Also note the extremely long time scales of the Old Testament and recognize the vast majority of people living in its span would have seen very little divine activity. The latter point, as to God's change in personality, again I would say the key is that his audience was different. Though moral truth (not necessarily disciplines, practices, and religious law) has not changed, the people of 3,000 years ago would have responded quite differently than the people of today and quite often even in the old testament days his rebukes against people were for failing to love their neighbor. The rules were themselves a list of practices that would be great health guidelines for surviving disease with no medical knowledge. They were simply practices built for those days and were completed when Christ came. Another thing to keep in mind when dissecting the subtleties is that the text was recorded by humans where also subject to the biases and thinking of their days. The portrayal of God at a particular point in time is not completely disconnected to the needs and understanding of the people in those days. The clearer answer was meant to be God incarnate, the person of Christ.
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Blue3
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« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2016, 11:15:12 PM »

It's fine I was just trying to dig deeper behind your statement, if you were willing to share.
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°Leprechaun
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« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2016, 03:25:06 PM »
« Edited: March 31, 2016, 03:43:18 PM by Two hundred twenty two days to 11/8 »

How can anyone be sure their religion is correct? (TJ's link above)

That was an excellent thread, not that long ago. I remember the discussion was fascinating.
Thanks for reminding me.

I also think it has at least some relevance to this thread, because why you identify with a certain religion may entail a fearless search for truth, questioning your previous belief system, thereby testing it, and if the test is sucessful, your belief becomes stronger (although, if the test fails, many often give up their previous religion)

edit: that said I have no desire to derail this thread, if this question is part of your answer to the title question, fine, if not, please ignore this post, I just appreciated being reminded of a previous discussion, that's all.
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« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2016, 06:33:43 PM »

Well, I was raised a Christian, I feel that Christianity has been a pretty good buttress for Western society, both on a social and an intellectual level, and, of course, I believe in God. I mean, obviously I have my doubts sometimes, but, you know, at the end of the day, who cares really? Even if my religion were categorically proven to be untrue I would continue to partake in it as long as it served a useful societal purpose. I really don't see the point of being an atheist for a guy like me, I mean, I understand why some people are atheists; they've got beef with the Church and the Church has got beef with them, but I don't so...
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« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2016, 02:07:39 PM »

I'm not a Christian and therefore I don't identify as one ( ##edgy option)
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White Trash
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« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2016, 02:11:45 PM »

'Cause my mama would beat me if I didn't.
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Young Conservative
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« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2016, 04:49:08 PM »

I believe in Christ and that he is the way the truth and the life. Through Him I am set free and am able to achieve eternal life. Christianity is fulfilling and loving. It is beautiful.
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« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2016, 09:06:49 AM »
« Edited: April 03, 2016, 09:10:24 AM by Oldiesfreak1854 »

Several reasons:

1. Most religions in the world are based on the concept that you can achieve some sort of reward in the afterlife for being a good person and doing good deeds in your life on Earth.  The Christian faith teaches that no matter how good you are, you will never be good enough to earn God's favor through your own efforts.  In my mind, it is much easier to admit that you're not good enough, repent of your sins and accept Jesus' death and resurrection for your forgiveness than it is to try working your way into heaven yourself.  (Unfortunately, many Christian traditions have abandoned this and gone to a legalistic, works-based salvation such as last-day perfectionism.)

2. I was raised in a Christian family, and thus my outlook on life is more likely to reflect a Christian worldview.

3. A modified/extended version of Pascal's wager.  In other words, it is safer to accept Jesus as the Son of God and be wrong than it is to reject Him and be wrong.  
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2016, 10:08:26 AM »

This is a very oddly worded question. Hazel eyed people... why do you identify as Hazel eyed?
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Blue3
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« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2016, 12:13:54 PM »

This is a very oddly worded question. Hazel eyed people... why do you identify as Hazel eyed?
Christianity isn't a physical trait you're born with.

It's a belief system, a value system, and a way of life.

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« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2016, 07:42:29 PM »

What keeps me coming back on an emotional level is that I need external structure, beauty, and meaning-making in my life, and Christianity is where I've found those things in greatest abundance. Having said that the idea of 'identifying as' Christian gives me the willies.
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« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2016, 11:51:39 PM »

It gives more purpose and direction than just coming into existence and randomly dying "just 'cuz". I would rather my actions and intentions mean something from the outset than have to decipher all the meaning of it externally.


That and what the OP said.

I hate to emptyquote, but you said it better than I did, even if I don't quite believe to the same extent.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2016, 12:28:27 AM »

3. A modified/extended version of Pascal's wager.  In other words, it is safer to accept Jesus as the Son of God and be wrong than it is to reject Him and be wrong.  
Pascal's Wager doesn't really work in Christianity because it is a faith based religion, not a works based religion.
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