CA: Deal Reached to Raise Minimum Wage to $15/hour
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 05:10:22 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Chancellor Tanterterg)
  CA: Deal Reached to Raise Minimum Wage to $15/hour
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3
Author Topic: CA: Deal Reached to Raise Minimum Wage to $15/hour  (Read 4157 times)
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,959
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2016, 12:58:32 PM »

But the Republicans assure me that a $15 min wage will make businesses go under and crash the economy!
If probably would in places outside New York City and coastal California.

Oh, so you're one of those Democrats. LOL
Logged
Sbane
sbane
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,303


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2016, 01:47:22 PM »

This is horrible news for Inland California. A $15 minimum wage is likely needed in Los Angeles and San Francisco (maybe even more there) but not really in Fresno.
Logged
The Mikado
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 21,677


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2016, 05:01:37 PM »

Yeah, a tiered minimum wage (15/12.50/10) depending on region of CA would be entirely appropriate. This is a state that still has vast rural areas as well as inland hellholes like Fresno and Bakersfield, where a $15 minimum wage isn't going to be as viable as it will be in SF.

We'll see how this turns out, though.
Logged
The Last Northerner
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 503


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2016, 07:55:29 PM »

The major urban areas already pre-empted this law. Los Angeles was on their way to $15/h by 2020 (the state law is by 2022). San Fran and Oakland had their own thing too. I suppose this could help neighboring towns that are literally a walk across the street from a bigger one equalize things but thats a big if. I can't imagine how this would help smaller commuter towns filled with people who escaped the high cost of living. This makes sense for SF but not places like Stockton. Ughh Moonbeam.
Logged
Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
olawakandi
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 87,759
Jamaica
Political Matrix
E: -6.84, S: -0.17


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2016, 08:25:54 PM »

This is a good step, but the natl min wage needs to go up too. Its about these minimum skilled factories that hide in the suburbs, that employ low skilled workers that keeps salaries low and never give a raise. But, I applaud this.
Logged
True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
Moderators
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 42,157
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2016, 08:41:11 PM »

Well, so much for trying to get legal workers in California agriculture.  Agriculture is largely hard labor and you're not going to find legal workers willing to do it for minimum wage.  Either otherwise legal workers are going to be getting paid off the books so as to avoid the taxman or illegal workers will be getting paid off the books so as to avoid the ICEman. Strawberries picked at $20/hour or more are not going to be competitive with berries picked elsewhere.  On the other hand, killing off the California agriculture industry would do a lot to solve California's water problems.
Logged
Mr. Smith
MormDem
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 33,072
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2016, 10:15:17 PM »

The major urban areas already pre-empted this law. Los Angeles was on their way to $15/h by 2020 (the state law is by 2022). San Fran and Oakland had their own thing too. I suppose this could help neighboring towns that are literally a walk across the street from a bigger one equalize things but thats a big if. I can't imagine how this would help smaller commuter towns filled with people who escaped the high cost of living. This makes sense for SF but not places like Stockton. Ughh Moonbeam.

Hahahaha escaped the high cost, nowhere in CA is cheap anymore...well except maybe Alturas. That's why I moved out (that and I got tired of the water problems).

Still, this is excellent news, and with more money in the working class hands, more money will go back into the economy since more people can afford things.
Logged
OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 44,348


Political Matrix
E: 3.42, S: 2.61

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2016, 11:23:17 PM »

Terrible decision , as it will just result in prices going up dramatically which will affect the middle class badly
Logged
ProgressiveCanadian
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,690
Canada


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2016, 04:20:10 AM »
« Edited: March 28, 2016, 06:38:49 AM by ProgressiveCanadian »

Terrible decision , as it will just result in prices going up dramatically which will affect the middle class badly

I don't believe you are a "Hero" then.
Logged
Famous Mortimer
WillipsBrighton
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,010
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2016, 05:05:25 AM »

Half assed decision because it doesn't go into effect for years and it exempts like half of all business because they're small businesses.

Also important to note, the main reason they exempted small businesses is because if they didn't, basically every bodega and Chinese restaurant would go out of business.

Open borders make a high minimum wage impossible.
Logged
dead0man
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 46,079
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2016, 09:26:50 AM »

Well, so much for trying to get legal workers in California agriculture.  Agriculture is largely hard labor and you're not going to find legal workers willing to do it for minimum wage.  Either otherwise legal workers are going to be getting paid off the books so as to avoid the taxman or illegal workers will be getting paid off the books so as to avoid the ICEman. Strawberries picked at $20/hour or more are not going to be competitive with berries picked elsewhere.  On the other hand, killing off the California agriculture industry would do a lot to solve California's water problems.
They don't care about things like that, this is a victory, man, don't...ahem....rain on their parade.

and I didn't consider how this was going to affect me earlier.  So now I'm going to pay 10% more for strawberries in Feb and they are going to come from Argentina?
Logged
DavidB.
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,612
Israel


Political Matrix
E: 0.58, S: 4.26


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2016, 09:42:19 AM »

Great news! I love EasyOrder.
Logged
TDAS04
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 23,463
Bhutan


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2016, 10:01:20 AM »

Excellent news. 
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,959
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #38 on: March 28, 2016, 01:25:57 PM »

Half assed decision because it doesn't go into effect for years and it exempts like half of all business because they're small businesses.

Also important to note, the main reason they exempted small businesses is because if they didn't, basically every bodega and Chinese restaurant would go out of business.

Open borders make a high minimum wage impossible.

$15 is not "high".
Logged
Famous Mortimer
WillipsBrighton
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,010
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2016, 02:58:09 PM »

Half assed decision because it doesn't go into effect for years and it exempts like half of all business because they're small businesses.

Also important to note, the main reason they exempted small businesses is because if they didn't, basically every bodega and Chinese restaurant would go out of business.

Open borders make a high minimum wage impossible.

$15 is not "high".

Okay. You're not disproving my point. We can't even maintain a $15 dollar minimum wage because of immigration. How could we maintain one that you would actually consider high for real?
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,959
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2016, 03:00:38 PM »

Half assed decision because it doesn't go into effect for years and it exempts like half of all business because they're small businesses.

Also important to note, the main reason they exempted small businesses is because if they didn't, basically every bodega and Chinese restaurant would go out of business.

Open borders make a high minimum wage impossible.

$15 is not "high".

Okay. You're not disproving my point. We can't even maintain a $15 dollar minimum wage because of immigration. How could we maintain one that you would actually consider high for real?

By cracking down on employers who cheat and giving citizenship to undocumented immigrants (sane).
Logged
The Mikado
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 21,677


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2016, 03:26:13 PM »

Half assed decision because it doesn't go into effect for years and it exempts like half of all business because they're small businesses.

Also important to note, the main reason they exempted small businesses is because if they didn't, basically every bodega and Chinese restaurant would go out of business.

Open borders make a high minimum wage impossible.

$15 is not "high".

For agricultural workers?

Also, the median income in California comes out to ~$20/hour. Raising the minimum to 75% of the median is...not something that's really viable.
Logged
Boston Bread
New Canadaland
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,636
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -5.00, S: -5.00

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2016, 03:29:03 PM »

With inflation $15 is reasonable by 2022 or whenever it takes full effect.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,959
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2016, 03:38:18 PM »

Half assed decision because it doesn't go into effect for years and it exempts like half of all business because they're small businesses.

Also important to note, the main reason they exempted small businesses is because if they didn't, basically every bodega and Chinese restaurant would go out of business.

Open borders make a high minimum wage impossible.

$15 is not "high".

For agricultural workers?

Also, the median income in California comes out to ~$20/hour. Raising the minimum to 75% of the median is...not something that's really viable.

Uh, yes. Agricultural work is exhausting and I don't see why it shouldn't be compensated appropriately.

For a full-time worker to make at least 1.5 times the poverty line is not an idea I find particularly shocking, no.
Logged
Orser67
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,947
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2016, 04:01:03 PM »

Probably a little high, but hopefully it works out. They have time to pass further legislation before the full $15 min wage kicks in.
Logged
muon2
Moderators
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 16,787


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2016, 04:01:50 PM »

I find the inflationary aspect of this issue to be fascinating. In the 2013 SOTU Obama called for the federal minimum wage to rise to $9.00 by 2015. In 2014 Obama called for it to rise to $10.10 and backed it up with a federal order for $10.10 effective in 2015. That's 12% inflation in one year for the President's request.

Later in 2015 Seattle passes it's increase in the minimum wage starting at $11 in 2015 and rising to $15 in 2019. $15 seems to be the rallying cry, but note that's a 67% increase over Obama's original request. Furthermore these increases become adjusted for inflation after they reach their target. So presumably that target should make some economic sense.

CNN/Money has an interactive graph of the inflation adjusted federal minimum wage. Its peak was in 1968 at $10.68 in 2015 dollars. Between 1961 and 1980 the inflation adjusted minimum wage was between $7.67 and $10.68. Only one year was under $8.00 and only two over $10.00. The median during those 20 years was $9.28. I was even a minimum wage earner during part of that period. Tongue

After the 2014 SOTU I looked up the federal data on the positive impact of minimum wage based on additional money spent by those wage earners vs the negative impact based on money lost due to job losses. The break even point in 2013 was about $9.00 which is consistent with the high range from the 1960's and 70's. Accounting for inflation since 2013 would put the point at $9.16.

The two pieces of actual economic data suggest that the federal minimum wage ought to be around $9.25. That's actually very much in agreement with Obama's original request in 2013. It's also reasonable to expect that localities with high costs of living might also have a higher minimum wage. I'd just rather see it derived from actual economic studies rather than a gut feeling for what is right.
Logged
Virginiá
Virginia
Administratrix
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,856
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.97, S: -5.91

WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #46 on: March 28, 2016, 04:09:38 PM »

The two pieces of actual economic data suggest that the federal minimum wage ought to be around $9.25. That's actually very much in agreement with Obama's original request in 2013. It's also reasonable to expect that localities with high costs of living might also have a higher minimum wage. I'd just rather see it derived from actual economic studies rather than a gut feeling for what is right.

Well I think the push for $15 is more so because costs of living have made even $10 impractical in a lot of areas. In the context of inflation, I think what you're saying is definitely correct, but people now want wages they can eek out a meager existence on.

I find myself in constant flux on the $15 min. wage debate, as it does seem pretty high, but at the same time I sympathize a lot with the people who need this. My belief is that the 2 parties need to come together and do whatever it takes to bring wages up in this country while keeping unemployment down. If they don't want to risk harm from a $15 min. wage, then they need to get serious about labor issues in this country. This includes actually trying ideas that may go counter to each party's beliefs.

If they don't, the people will continue to push for these things where they can, and what they push for may not always be good for the state/country.
Logged
muon2
Moderators
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 16,787


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2016, 04:24:24 PM »

The two pieces of actual economic data suggest that the federal minimum wage ought to be around $9.25. That's actually very much in agreement with Obama's original request in 2013. It's also reasonable to expect that localities with high costs of living might also have a higher minimum wage. I'd just rather see it derived from actual economic studies rather than a gut feeling for what is right.

Well I think the push for $15 is more so because costs of living have made even $10 impractical in a lot of areas. In the context of inflation, I think what you're saying is definitely correct, but people now want wages they can eek out a meager existence on.

I find myself in constant flux on the $15 min. wage debate, as it does seem pretty high, but at the same time I sympathize a lot with the people who need this. My belief is that the 2 parties need to come together and do whatever it takes to bring wages up in this country while keeping unemployment down. If they don't want to risk harm from a $15 min. wage, then they need to get serious about labor issues in this country.

If they don't, the people will continue to push for these things where they can, and what they push for may not always be good for the state/country.

I've heard the living wage argument, but in my area most minimum wage earners are not the primary source of household income, so the rationale doesn't hold up. When the question was on the IL ballot recently, I heard more concern from governmental units hiring part-time and seasonal employees than from private firms for entry-level work. Private firms tended to already be at $9.00 or more.

OTOH I know there are localities where there are a significant number of households that depend on the minimum wage for the household income, then as I noted those localities can make their own case for a higher local minimum wage. I also know the fact that the federal minimum hasn't kept up with inflation has disproportionally impacted the rural poor, particularly in the South. I like the idea of tiered minimums, but some groups don't seem to be interested in that outcome.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,959
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #48 on: March 28, 2016, 05:00:15 PM »

Inflation is not a bad thing per se. Sure, nobody wants to go back to the levels of the 70s and 80s, but inflation in the West has been moribund since the 1990s and that's what contributed to the widening inequality.
Logged
Virginiá
Virginia
Administratrix
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,856
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.97, S: -5.91

WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #49 on: March 28, 2016, 05:04:49 PM »

I've heard the living wage argument, but in my area most minimum wage earners are not the primary source of household income, so the rationale doesn't hold up.

Right, but even for people who make somewhat more money than that, if they feel they are getting squeezed economically then I would think they would be much more open to proposals that would obviously benefit the average joe. They don't necessarily have to benefit from it at that time, but they could both think that one day they may need it, and at a time where the narrative is increasingly focusing on income inequality / the wealthy bamboozling the country for personal gain, any reasonable-sounding ideas that obviously benefit workers will get more attention and more consideration.

OTOH I know there are localities where there are a significant number of households that depend on the minimum wage for the household income, then as I noted those localities can make their own case for a higher local minimum wage. I also know the fact that the federal minimum hasn't kept up with inflation has disproportionally impacted the rural poor, particularly in the South. I like the idea of tiered minimums, but some groups don't seem to be interested in that outcome.

And that was what I was getting at in part of my post - Proposals that sound good but have a decent chance of actually harming local economies are more likely to get support when sizable numbers of citizens feel they are under financial distress. Both parties need to start cooperating to bring wages up or else we may find a lot more possibly-harmful ideas gaining momentum.

I suppose this is one downside to having an initiative process.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.065 seconds with 13 queries.