Progessive Caucus Convention

[Frodo]

I have nothing against distributing condoms.  I'm just saying it's not a good idea to legalize prostitution.  I think if we can focus on ending the war on drugs, the prisons will have more rooms for serious things like prostitution.

And what do you hope to accomplish by criminalizing prostitution when it has already been tried, and largely failed?  It is a certainly a worse idea to criminalize -or keep criminalized- prostitution, considering the fact that it will become an underground black-market business outside of the purview and control of governmental authorities, instead of having it out in the open where it could be controlled. Your prescription is a recipe for failure as far as public health is concerned.   

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Legalizing prostitution should be viewed as part of the solution.  In any case, poverty may be the core issue, but it is separate from prostitution as far as the platform is concerned.  If you want to propose a plank on dealing with poverty, and add it in to the platform, I will consider supporting it as soon as you write it up. 

[Ebowed]

Prostitution criminalization only fails when there is lousy organization in law enforcement.  St. Paul, Minnesota has done an excellent job of cracking down on prostitution since Hubert Humphrey was its mayor in the 1940s, and unfortunately managing a country is much harder than a city-- but I fully believe with the right people managing, criminalization can be successful.

On a side note, I think prostitution should be a regional rights issue.  I doubt it would pass in the Southeast (I'd certainly vote against its legalization) but I could see it passing in the Mideast or Northeast, perhaps.

[Frodo]

Prostitution criminalization only fails when there is lousy organization in law enforcement.  St. Paul, Minnesota has done an excellent job of cracking down on prostitution since Hubert Humphrey was its mayor in the 1940s, and unfortunately managing a country is much harder than a city-- but I fully believe with the right people managing, criminalization can be successful.

Which is almost never.

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I agree -I would add the Pacific as well. 

[Ebowed]

Prostitution criminalization only fails when there is lousy organization in law enforcement.  St. Paul, Minnesota has done an excellent job of cracking down on prostitution since Hubert Humphrey was its mayor in the 1940s, and unfortunately managing a country is much harder than a city-- but I fully believe with the right people managing, criminalization can be successful.

Which is almost never.

But then again, if the right people almost never manage, I wouldn't trust them with regulation of prostitution either.  I prefer we call this one a regional rights issue.

[minionofmidas]

Re: the prostitution plank, I hate to say this, but I'm not sure I see the point in legalizing it if the government has to regulate it.  I say this not because I personally oppose legalizing prostitution in the first place, but because that defies the whole point of such a libertarian position.  While checking for prostitutes for HIV/AIDS makes good sense, it would require too much work from the government, which equates to extra taxpayer money, when we should spend it on more important things.

Let me put it this way -legalizing prostitution is a matter of public health.  By putting prostitutes under the aegis of the federal govenment (in fact, it doesn't even have to be the federal government per se but a partnership between it, and state and local governments)

It's a States Rights issue I guess. I don't see where the Feds should be involved.

[Peter]

I would like to remind the Chairman of his duty to hold a Leadership election if necessary and to constitute the Board as outlined under the Rules.

[MAS117]

I would like to remind the Chairman of his duty to hold a Leadership election if necessary and to constitute the Board as outlined under the Rules.

Yes, I know Peter. If you read the first page I was planning on doing it after speechs.

[MAS117]

I have now posted a Voting Booth for some changes to our platform. I urge all members to vote on ASAP. The Booth will be closed on Friday. The link is:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=23482.0

Thank you.

      - MAS117
        Chairman

[Frodo]

You forgot to add this revision of the Pornography plank to the ballot:

I propose:

'The Progressive Caucus supports the right of persons of 16 years and over to buy, possess and view pornography depicting only consenting persons of at least 18 years of age.'

For obvious reasons this leaves us only endorsing one form of pornography, rather than anti-endorsing others, whilst potetntially leaving the door ajar on others.

This is the proposal which I now support, instead of my original proposal which I agreed was too overly verbose. 

[MAS117]

You forgot to add this revision of the Pornography plank to the ballot:

I propose:

'The Progressive Caucus supports the right of persons of 16 years and over to buy, possess and view pornography depicting only consenting persons of at least 18 years of age.'

For obvious reasons this leaves us only endorsing one form of pornography, rather than anti-endorsing others, whilst potetntially leaving the door ajar on others.

This is the proposal which I now support, instead of my original proposal which I agreed was too overly verbose. 

I'm sorry I will add this.

[Ebowed]

My death penalty revision isn't in the thread either

[MAS117]

My death penalty revision isn't in the thread either

Done.

[Peter]

I would like to remind the Chairman of his duty to hold a Leadership election if necessary and to constitute the Board as outlined under the Rules.

Yes, I know Peter. If you read the first page I was planning on doing it after speechs.

And when exactly are these speeches starting considering that you are number one on the list?

[MAS117]

I would like to remind the Chairman of his duty to hold a Leadership election if necessary and to constitute the Board as outlined under the Rules.

Yes, I know Peter. If you read the first page I was planning on doing it after speechs.

And when exactly are these speeches starting considering that you are number one on the list?

After the end of voting on the platform.

[minionofmidas]

Damn, I wanted to propose a shorter version of the Legalize Prostitution plank, but I guess it's too late now.

[The Dowager Mod]

I find it rather disgusting that you guys want to legalize prostitution.

[Hatman 🍁]

I find it rather disgusting that you guys want to legalize prostitution.

It has more to do with protecting women than exploiting them. If prostitution were legal, then it could be regulated. Prostitution will always exist, so there's no point forcing it underground where the pimps can exploit and abuse women more easily then if it were legal.  Plus, don't forget men can be prostitutes too.

[Siege40]

I find it rather disgusting that you guys want to legalize prostitution.

'

I agree with the honourable Texasgurl... legalizing Prostitution is not a good idea...

Siege

[Frodo]

I find it rather disgusting that you guys want to legalize prostitution.

'

I agree with the honourable Texasgurl... legalizing Prostitution is not a good idea...

Siege

Can you elaborate?  Why is it not a good idea?  I brought up points earlier in this thread on why I think prostitution should be legalized, and I have yet to hear either of you give a reasoned argument why it shouldn't be.  Not one of the points I raised have been addressed.  Instead, I get knee-jerk 'Ewwwwwwwwww!  Gross!  How icky!' reactions from Texasgurl and yourself who apparently don't bother to read the damn thread.

Oh, and Texasgurl, you have yet to respond to Provincial Rights.   

[Siege40]

I find it rather disgusting that you guys want to legalize prostitution.

'

I agree with the honourable Texasgurl... legalizing Prostitution is not a good idea...

Siege

Can you elaborate?  Why is it not a good idea?  I brought up points earlier in this thread on why I think prostitution should be legalized, and I have yet to hear either of you give a reasoned argument why it shouldn't be.  Not one of the points I raised have been addressed.  Instead, I get knee-jerk 'Ewwwwwwwwww!  Gross!  How icky!' reactions from Texasgurl and yourself who apparently don't bother to read the damn thread.

Oh, and Texasgurl, you have yet to respond to Provincial Rights.   

Wow. That was a little angry...

I don't think it's a good idea because firstly I think there's something morally wrong with prostitution. Next, prostitution is not just another profession, Jane Ebert called it 'soul destroying.' Prostitution is just a thin line for me from slavery, the selling of not only a human body, but a human soul for the pure abusive pleasure of another person.

I'll be honest, I haven't read the thread meticulously, usually because the Progressive Caucus stands are logical and sound and I really didn't expect anything like this. I believe that if this policy position is passed I'd leave the Progressive Caucus, it's nothing personal, just I can't endorse the legalization of prostitution.

Siege

[Ebowed]

I find it rather disgusting that you guys want to legalize prostitution.

We finally agree on something! 

[Hatman 🍁]

I'll have you know, many women (and men) enjoy prostitution. It may seem hard to believe, but there are prostitution rights groups who enjoy the work, and want to make it legal so they can feel safe while doing it. Quebec even has a provincial party of prositutes who are fighting to make it legal. Some people like sex, why shouldnt they be able to do it for money? I mean, shouldnt we be in jobs that we like?

[Siege40]

Interesting argument. While this is probably just extremism, what if I like to kill people, shouldn't I be allowed to be an assassin? The answer is no, because killing is wrong, and so is selling your body for sex.

Siege

[Ebowed]

Interesting argument. While this is probably just extremism, what if I like to kill people, shouldn't I be allowed to be an assassin? The answer is no, because killing is wrong, and so is selling your body for sex.

Siege

I agree.  Prostitution is just wrong, and even if we did legalize it, regulating it to keep it healthy would be too much work and a waste of the government's time and money.

[minionofmidas]

Do you guys recognize the problem with legal hardcore pornography while prostitution is illegal?