TRUMP: "There has to be some form of punishment" for women who have abortions

[Antonio the Sixth]

Wonder if that will change the minds of Lief or the other leftists who say Drumpf is such a great moderate?

Oh wait, no, they're already defending a guy who beats up women.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Atlas pro-lifers are way nastier about it than pro-lifers I know in other contexts. I'm not sure if this is because of selection bias in my offline life, the fact that Atlas is so overwhelmingly male, the fact that I live in Massachusetts, or some combination of the three.

I'd wager that the average pro-life activist would tend to have even nastier views on the matter. The average person who votes "no in most cases" in a poll probably not, though. From what I've seen, most Americans tend to fall somewhere on the spectrum rather than having clear-cut views.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Atlas pro-lifers are way nastier about it than pro-lifers I know in other contexts. I'm not sure if this is because of selection bias in my offline life, the fact that Atlas is so overwhelmingly male, the fact that I live in Massachusetts, or some combination of the three.

I'd wager that the average pro-life activist would tend to have even nastier views on the matter. The average person who votes "no in most cases" in a poll probably not, though. From what I've seen, most Americans tend to fall somewhere on the spectrum rather than having clear-cut views.

Right, because clear-cut views tend to be subjectively unreasonable. 'A mentally and physically healthy woman in her late twenties or early thirties should be allowed to abort in the third trimester on a whim' is a subjectively unreasonable position, as is 'a fifteen-year-old girl who has been raped by her uncle shouldn't be allowed to take RU486', even though those are the views that make the most 'sense' according to most coherent ethical frameworks. Most pro-lifers I know would deeply want the fifteen-year-old not to abort but would also be squeamish at the idea of legally prohibiting her from doing so. Some of these people are in fact activists for that position; they just don't have very loud voices.

I'm not sure why the "subjectively" qualifier is necessary here. Obviously it's subjective in that people will have different positions (and indeed I'm sure there are a good number of people who would agree with each statement), but that doesn't mean that beliefs in this area should be exempted from judgments of objective morality.

Of course I believe that it's possible for someone to be both pro-life and oppose these extreme kinds of restrictions. In fact, I would argue it wouldn't be inconsistent for someone to view both abortion and abortion restrictions as immoral. I think this can be derived from objective principles.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Atlas pro-lifers are way nastier about it than pro-lifers I know in other contexts. I'm not sure if this is because of selection bias in my offline life, the fact that Atlas is so overwhelmingly male, the fact that I live in Massachusetts, or some combination of the three.

I'd wager that the average pro-life activist would tend to have even nastier views on the matter. The average person who votes "no in most cases" in a poll probably not, though. From what I've seen, most Americans tend to fall somewhere on the spectrum rather than having clear-cut views.

Pro-life activists are often involved in helping out pregnant and single mothers directly or indirectly through the work of crisis pregnancy centers.  Thus they tend not to fall so easy into villianizing those who have abortions as some generic right-wingers who have less direct experience with the issue.

(of course this depends on how one defines "activist")

I was thinking about the folks who yell obscenities and assault people at abortion clinics, but fair point.

[Antonio the Sixth]

muh states rights

[Antonio the Sixth]

He needs to end the stupid charade and just say what he is...pro choice.

He is almost certainly pro mass murder of babies but he cannot say that.

You're both way off. Drumpf doesn't give a sh*t either way.